ShopBot Labs is live

[bill.young]

We've started a new section on the ShopBot site called ShopBot Labs (http://www.shopbottools.com/shopbot_labs.htm) that will make projects available that are under development. Some may just need a little final testing but others might still be pretty rough around the edges...it's all described in each project's page. If you're feeling adventuresome, check it out.

[gerald_d]

The sTunes is a hoot, I think that Bill is trying to get himself some free wine (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/show.cgi?tpc=26&post=7987#POST7987)

I'd better go and check if it is still there under the cobwebs....

[john_david]

Gerald I think your right but with a guy thatspend this much time playing with the Shopbot When would he have time to drink it
LOL

JD

[zeykr]

Bill, Looks like fun to play with. I was hoping maybe you were putting out the source in an open source development type of thing. I'd like to try making a coordinate measuring machine version of copy machine.

[bill.young]

Hey Ken,

The simple answer first. The Copy Machine is really just a front end for the DOS probing routines to make it easier to change settings. It writes a custom ShopBot file named "vt_probe.sbp" that does the real work, but that file is really just a standard probing file with your values filled in. Once you've run the Copy Machine once you can find that file in the "C:\Program files\ShopBot\virtual Tools\Copy Machine" folder and then modify it to do what you want.

Now the more complicated one. I'm certainly agreeable to and interested in making source code available for some of my projects...there are a couple of examples in the Developer Tools folder in the ShopBot folder...and would like to do more of it. There are a few obstacles to doing it though that have to be sorted out...

*) The language that it's written in. I use VB6 for just about everything because it quick and easy and I'm comfortable with it, but it's not available any more and therefore not a good choice to base an open source project on. I've been looking at Microsoft's free Express tools and am thinking that they might be a good option for open sourcing code...there could be both VB.net and C# versions of programs. They are quite a bit different than what I'm used to though...it boils down to the "old dog/ new tricks" problem.

*) It's really a whole lot more work to open source software than it is to just develop for your eyes only because you either have to put the time into commenting it enough to make it obvious to others how it works, or put the time into explaining it afterwards when someone wants to work with it. It's easy to hack something together that works, but not so easy to make it clear to others how it's doing it. In a word, laziness!

One thing that I think could work well as open source projects are scripts for other programs like Rhino and Sketchup. I'm planning on adding some very rough scripts for both of them to ShopBot Labs at some point...seems like they have a lot of collaborative potential.

Bill

[bill.young]

Hey,

The bug reports are already trickling in! A new version of the odometer was uploaded yesterday and a new version of the SketchPad this evening.

The names of the new zip files end in "_001b.zip"...if the version you have ends in "_001.zip" then you'll need to re-download to get the new one.

Bill

[geneb]

Bill, I have to laugh at the sTunes trick. It made me recall a fun memory about playing the William Tell Overture on my Commodore 64's 1541 disk drives head mechanism back in '85 or so.


g.

[geneb]

Almost forgot! Borland has release Turbo Delphi for windows as a free download at http://www.turboexplorer.com.

You can't add any third party components to the control palette, but other than that it's a fully operational and unrestricted compiler. For those that have used Turbo Pascal in past years should find Turbo Delphi very enjoyable!

g.

[oscarg1971]

Commodore 64? What's that? :-) -OG

[gerald_d]

that was the best-selling PC ever! 64 kilobyte RAM.

[myxpykalix]

Gerald,
sorry for the correction but that in fact was not a PC but an Amiga! I'm looking at my amiga that i did 3d animation and modeling on in the early 90's with (I think) 10 megs of ram. You could do more on that machine with very little ram than you can with a pc with tons of ram today.

[gerald_d]

I meant PC to be personal computer in the generic sense. Around here, any computer standing on a desk is called a PC - even if it is an Apple!

[mikejohn]

You guys know how to live!!
I started with a ZX81, 0.5 kilobytes of ROM, 0.5 kilobytes of RAM.
Graphics were a tad 'blocky'!
And you saved and loaded from a tape recorder, which was a bit hit and miss!
When I got my first PC, in 1989, with its 30meg hard disc, I wondered how I could possible ever fill it!

The young 'uns today don't know they are born


...........Mike

[mdebruce]

Heheh Mike That sounds like my first except I had an Atari 400 then moved up to an 800.But wasn't that tape recorder something, you could actually keep a program on it!!!! Whoop!
My puter now has 3 gig ram and more memory on the video card than seemed possible for a business puter back then.

[jsfrost]

I still have my C64 and boxes of SW. Make me an offer!

[evan]

If RAM cost now what it did then I sure wouldn't have the five PC's I can't seem to live without now.

[robtown]

Ahhh... the old video toaster (Amiga), that takes me back...

As well... I too recall countless hours typing code into the old Tandy w/cassette tape drive...

I recall buying my first hard drive for my IBM in 87 or so. That 10 meg hard drive cost more than my current workstation cost me, and it's a dual xeon with 4 gigs RAM and a serious graphics card.

[gus]

TRS 80 16K Level II
then a VIC 20
Then a C64 and 1541

The first two used a tape rcorder with audio interface for storage, 300 baud. The C64 had a edge connector on the back that you could Peek and Poke and use for IO so you could make a nice little controller out of it. Way ahead of the times in that respect.

[gerald_d]

...and people were walking on the moon about a decade before before all of these modern marvels. This (http://www.sliderule.ca/faber-2-82-back.jpg) was my first computer.

[bill.young]

Isn't there ANYONE on this forum that isn't an old geezer?

[patricktoomey]

Hmm, I FEEL like an old geezer most of the time, does that count?

[mikejohn]

As I think I have said here before, you know you are an 'old geezer' when you realise you are sleeping with a grandmother!

Gerald
We had slide rule lessons at school!! Very advanced! Just after the abacus lessons



.............Mike

[gerald_d]

At the start of my first year of university (1974) it was mandatory for each student to have a slide rule. The use of electronic calculators was forbidden. By the middle of that year, calculators were allowed and there was scramble to get the HP35 (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD:2005-07%2CGGLD:en&q=hp35+calculator) which cost 10% the price of a new car. By the end of that year nobody in the class had slide-rules, and the final exams were a breeze because they were set for the slow "slipstick".

[dhunt]

Okay: confession time!

Who in here is/isn't a genuine Old Geezer??
I'm in my 57th. year.

_____ How old are YOU? ________

(There aren't too many 'Youngins' who can either afford,
or are interested in, this CNC stuff)

[gerald_d]

51

[mikejohn]

63

[robtown]

41

[jerryk]

65

[steve4460]

45

[gerald_d]

Oh well, so far I am younger than average

[srwtlc]

46

[myxpykalix]

Ok i'll be 53 this thursday, so that plenty of time for you guys to get together and pool your money and buy me a nice present....say a nice 5hp spindle? Or anything, just to show you care! lol

[paco]

32

[beacon14]

the calendar says 45 but I'm not buyin' it.

[bill.young]

53, and I felt pretty good about it until I found out that I'm geezery-er than Gerald!

[terryd]

What Calender are we using?
1977 Cyber 18 8k ram, mag tape, punch cards,
fanfold. Put man on the moon with the damned thing. Never forget the "end" card or the operator would teach you a whole new meaning of endless loop. Only way to stop it was to pull the plug. Really pull the plug. God I miss those days... Made $50k a year as a Systems Analyst back then writing code in assembler. I was a teenager...I still hate the pc ;).

TerryD

[trakwebster]

63

[patricktoomey]

37

[tmerrill]

54. I was going to reply yesterday but I forgot...

Remember, its not the age, its the mileage!

[andyb]

46

[gerald_d]

Back on topic for a bit.....

Mr Young (bowing to my elders), a version of sTunes that acts as a "sweep generator" will be useful for trouble-shooting resonances. (See this (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/show.cgi?tpc=26&post=40310#POST40310) post today)

Average age now at 50

[rhfurniture]

58

[don_roy]

57 but closer to 58

[rhfurniture]

Crikey, that line of reasoning puts me at 59, which might as well be 60... How's the average Gerald?
I went to a highfollutin furniture makers conferance back in the 80's, and noticed that everone was about my age or younger, with a handful of "older" folk. I went to a similar bash in 2004 and noticed that everyone was my age or OLDER with a handfull of "younger" folk. I reckon people what make things are getting older and older. Young people just make money driving desks and telephones these days, - or become celebrity designers....

[bcammack]

51 here, as of the 7th.

I built my first computer in 1977 from a Z80 chip and some assorted TTL logic and EPROM. I worked at Microdata which became McDonald-Douglas Computer Systems at some point around 1980. Worked in the tech department troubleshooting and repairing large discrete-logic CPUs, memory boards, serial I/O boards, etc. The CPU was two 14"x10" boards tie together with short ribbon cables. One board held all the PROMs for the CPU microcode. The other was the logic for the processor itself. I hazard to guess how many of the equivalent microprocessor dies would fit on my thumbnail today. A couple thousand, as the equivalent processing power would be darned-near microscopic in size. Sigh...

Bought an Atari 800 in 1979. There's a whole universe of emulation software and images of the original Atari software available for free nowdays on the Internet.

[jsfrost]

63 and debating hooking speakers to my design computer. I would probably be drowned out by the noise from my wife's TV in the house next to the shop. That's the only thing louder than the PC router. She "does not need a hearing aid". And neither do the neighbors.

[wooddr]

51 here

[gerald_d]

Average now 51.5

[kivimagi]

I'll help lower the average.

31

[evan]

47, but my wife (9 years younger) says I'm so old I knew dirt when it was rock.

[cnc_works]

36, but like many things in my life, it is backwards.

Donn

[rhfurniture]

Do you actually mean 63?
Rotate it 180 deg and you get to be 93
(:

R.

[hines]

30, looks like I'm the youngest so far. Probably won't be useful on the bot til I'm 40 though.
Only 4 months old in Shopbot owner time.

[wayneo]

Geez,
You youngsters are making me bones ache!

I cut my teeth (still hav'em too!) on an ENAIC 7.

Check it out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

Wayneo

[wooden_innovations]

30 here, had Shopbot since march and paid for in one job!!!

[robert_cheal]

47

[trevor_b]

38, and planning a party in Vegas for my 40th.

10 month old shop botter.

[lanny]

63, That should raise the average.

My first computer was a Radio Shack TRS80.
The second was a TRS80 Model 3 which I still have.

[ryan_slaback]

Just to make you all feel old...

27

[harryball]

Feel old!... why you young whipper snapper... when I get up out of this chair I'll come over there and ... what was I talking about again?

39

Robert

[mikejohn]

Getting old isn't about years.
Its...
Making a grunting sound when you get out of an armchair.
Standing at the top of the stairs, looking around, wondering what in the heck you came up here for.
Cursing when you drop a screwdriver, because its a long way down to pick it up.
Complaining that TV presenters are always mumbling.
Think your grandaughters teacher is her school mate.
Get an eye check so often you are invited to the opticians christmas party.
Enjoy looking at beautiful women, but can't remember why.
Have a much younger wife to get on, or under, the Shopbot for you.
Know they are brewing beer much stronger, as you can only drink a fraction of what you used to.
and, the biggy, visiting the bathroom at regular intervals throughout the night!
"Now, where did I put my spare teeth?"

............Mike(I think)

[blaz_in_az]

67, soon 68, full time hobby/job.
Solving problems and learning Insignia keep me young.

Tim

[dhunt]

God Bless Old Geezers!

Remember this,Youngins...

Youth,Beauty and Strength
are NO SUBSTITUTE for
Old Age, Treachery and Deceit.

got it?

[scottcox]

To you Old Geezers: Thanks for paving the way then and now.

To you kids: One day your youth will vanish. It's a tragic ordeal. Prepare.

From the middle of the road at 41,

Scott

[gerald_d]

NAMEAGEAVG. David Hunt5757.0 Gerald_D5154.0 Mike John6357.0 Rob Williams5155.5 Gerald Kling6557.4 Stephan Voelkel4555.3 Scott Worden4654.0 Jack Jarvis5353.9 Paco3251.4 David Buchsbaum4550.8 Bill Young 5351.0 Arthur Cronos6352.0 Patrick Toomey3750.8 Tim Merril5451.1 Andy Brooks4650.7 rh5851.2 Donald Roy5751.5 Brett Cammack5151.5 Jim Frost6352.1 Dirk Dunham5152.1 Ryan Kivimagi3151.0 Evan Curtis4750.9 Donn Busby6351.4 Dave Hines3050.5 Rodney B Brown3049.7 Robert Cheal4749.6 Trevor Baker3849.1 Lanny Nightingale6349.6 Ryan Slaback2748.9 Robert Ball3948.5 Timothy Blazevic6749.1 Scott Cox4148.9
Looks like we are settling at the 49 point....
Unless I got something/somebody wrong?

63 is the most popular age though, closely followed by 51.

[joenagel]

At 42 years old I'm old enough to know that I'm too young to know everything. As opposed to my 17 year old daughter who is young enough to know everything.

Joe

[simon]

46, but only about 2.5 Bot-years.

[randy]

Chronological age: 61 (feels like 91 when the weather changes)
ShopBot age: 7 weeks (playing with the software for 3 years)

[phil_o]

A very young 56.

[les_linton]

ditto on the 56

[scott_smith]

37. 12 years from being average. Thanks for keeping track Gerald. Bill & David, see what you started.
And my 1st computer was also a C64

[pete]

Ok, Ok, I'll fess up. 62 - but I only look 61. And been bottin' for 1.5 years

[handh]

Ok, Just turned 44, been woodworking 20 years, bottin' for about a month.

Jeff

[gus]

58
But I wake up in the AM and feel like I am 19.....then I try and move.

[dvanr]

47

Pet/CBM 2040 dual floppy, 64k mem and we made money with it!

Old botters never die they just go off on a tangent

[dhunt]

This has been a most interesting (if entirely off-topic!) exercise, hasn't it?
Thank you for your participation, guys..
and special thanks to Gerald in S.A.
for continuing his tabulation on averages!

LOVED the bit re. the 17 yr.old dau. who knows everything!
I have a buncha teenage grand-daus just a lil younger than that,
and it's amazing how teens know Absolutely Everything!
I'm reminded of a comment Mark Twain made,
upon his return from 3 yrs.of 'walkabout'
(around the age of 19-21)
- seems Twain noticed that, during the span of his walkabout years,
how much smarter his Dad had got!!

Thank God the average age of Shopbotters is somewhere just short of 50.
Please continue with your submissions,
and you,Gerald.. with your excellent tabulation on the average.

[gerald_d]

The full-time ShopBotter on my premises is my 24yr-old son, but I won't list him here as he will drive the average down... Anyway, he is at the stage where he is going to have to pay his own electricity utility bill and today he is filling in the forms. "Dad, will I be using less than 1 000 kW?" (that's about 1300HP!) I long back to when he was a know-it-all teenager - when he tried to figure things out before asking the old-man a dumb question.

[gerald_d]

continued.....

Joe Nagel4248.7 Simon Worral4648.6 Randy Rice6148.9 Phil O'Rourke5649.1 Les Linton5649.3 Scott Smith3749.0 Peter J.Meacham6249.3 Jeffrey Hamilton4449.2 Ted Gustafson5849.4 Dick van Randen4749.4

[bruce_clark]

Gerald,

Here one to lower the averages.

36 but have been a ShopBotter for 8 years!

Bruce

[gabepari]

OK, I'll bite.

34

And put another notch on the C-64 for first computer list. Actually, I started on a Sinclair ZX81, but was that really a computer
?

Gabe
www.socalteardrops.com (http://www.socalteardrops.com)

[mossie_jim]

60

[gene]

45. look like 55, acts like 35. AGE is a state of mind!.. but now I can`t remember what state am i in ?

[tporter]

You need a computer to run the darn thing....dang
I wondered why I couldn't cut any neat stuff..

[harryball]

The first day I knew I was getting old... I saw a cute girl around 18 years old with a short skirt and the first thing to come to mind wasn't what it used to be... "My daughter ain't wearin something like!" Then I realized that if I did think what I used to think I'd be a dirty old man!

I didn't even notice the transition, sigh...

Robert

[wayne_walker]

57 in 2 days - botter for 1 1/2 years.

[jim_hansen]

49 The only thing good about getting older is the older women look good cause the young women always look good! Oh to be 16 and know what I know now.

[brian_h]

43, the same as Michael Jordan and Tom Cruise.

[kaaboom_99]

42 and 5 kids!

[bleeth]

Alright: What the H__l; 57 going on 19!! No rugrats that I know of-My wife says "One is enough." Can't imagine what she is referring to.

Dave

[paul_n]

66, and 2 kids, 6 grand-kids, 1 great-grand-kid in the oven.

Paul

[steve4460]

Hi Guys

Since we are all talking about age . I thought you guys might get a kick out of this little B-day Calculator .
http://www.paulsadowski.com/birthday.asp

Have fun and bot on

[dhunt]

It's a bit dismaying to see the underlying cultural attitude among Us Elders
that an advanced age is somehow to our dis-advantage.
In most Eastern cultures, the elderly are appreciated,
due to their cumulative experience and knowledge.

Only in the West (America,particularly?) are the elderly treated like some kinda invalids,
and where only "Youth,Beauty and Strength" are worthy of admiration!
What a fashion magazine mindest - does it affect ShopBotters TOO?

I have a message for all of you over the age of 50.
Do not be ashamed of your age!
Do not let the youthful Beauty Culture(magazine covers?!) get to you!

Dave R., so you're 57!
God Bless you, young man!
Stand tall and be proud of your durability and priceless experience,
and that you've outlived all those you've buried at the funerals you've been to, these last few years,already!
When I get to 82,I intend to be very proud of my age, doing as I LIKE!

It's the in-experienced Youngins who have something to be ashamed of...
- as in ..Teenagers are BRAINLESS!
Apologies for the non-PC straight talk!

Now... I want all the mid-60s guys to chime in,
and I want to hear from a few proud 70+'s as well, okay?

[mikejohn]

Age is an attitude of mind.
My best friend throughout my school years turned into a replica of his father by the time he reached forty, already set in his ways. I have known old men of 50, and go getters of 80 plus.
OK, I sometimes realise I can't do some of the thing now that I could when younger, but it doesn't stop me trying!

.............Mike

[bcammack]

Interestingly enough, American employers seem to be coming around to the realization that 50+ year olds are more knowledgable and reliable than the youngsters available to them today.


One thing I enjoy about getting older is that pretty, young females hold little or no power over me anymore.

[3d_danny]

54 years young

[pierre_wessels]

35 - With prt96 bot for the past 4 years

[dhunt]

Methinks the average age is lowering, perhaps rapidly!

Time for another assessment from South Africa?
What's the Average Age now, Gerald?
(God bless accountants and mathematicians!)

[gerald_d]

Methinks the average might have moved by only a year if anything at all...

[jeff_rowley]

34.

Brett, interesting comment you made about corporate America. Where you run into problems is when they do the math trying to compare paying you for your 30+ years of experience and expertise vs. what they can pay the kid fresh out of school...

The first computer I learned to program on was a TRS-80. We eventually bought a Tandy 1000, which probably cost 2x what the workstation I am using right now did. I remember trying to show it to my Grandfather. He told me, "Ask it who the 12th president was." I told him, "Sorry gramps, it doesn't work that way, you have to have software, and it only does what the program says, etc..." He didn't see what good it was. I wish he was still around to see the internet, where it really is that easy to find an answer to any obscure question you can think of.

He also would have been absolutely floored by the Shopbot. He was an 'old school' cabinet-maker. I don't expect to ever be able to make anything as good as him, even with my fancy new tools.

[mikejohn]

Zachary Taylor (or was it Atchison?)
Took 4 seconds to find that! (5 minutes to read it all though!)

.........Mike

[gerald_d]

President of which country? We havn't had 12 yet - earlier they were only Prime Ministers.

[bill.young]

Sorry to steal this thread back for just a minute..it's really a pretty interesting one...but just wanted to let y'all know that the Extruder in ShopBot Labs (http://www.shopbottools.com/shopbot_labs.htm) has been updated to include the ability to do elliptical arcs. If you have a use for it please give it a try and see if you can break it.

And one quick note on the age postings. I've wandered through some of the ShopBot trainings and have met quite a few ShopBotters and my guess is that the average age is much closer to 30 than 50. So is the relative geezery-ness of our sample a reflection of the forum, rather than of ShopBotters in general?

Bill

[gerald_d]

Bill, you've hit the nail on the head - this Forum is for the geezers & wheezers, groaners and moaners.

[mikejohn]

Now we've done age (and because I am way up the list above Gerald) who wants to start weight?


I do think Bill is extremely polite having had a thread so comprehensively hijacked


........Mike

[gerald_d]

...talk of geezers, wheezers, groaners and moaners, and look who is the first to appear!

Waves at Mike

[bojan]

47

[don_ask]

65

[gerald_d]

Bojan, from Slovenia - welcome to my time-zone!

Now I am thinking of kremšnita...

[mikejohn]

I'm in your time zone. Why aren't you nice to me?

[gerald_d]

Your lot invaded my country and became my ancestors. You made me wear a tie...and shoes

[bojan]

Hi to all.
You know kremšnita? Great! Let me know when you will come in Slovenia!Or anybody else of you - shopboters.

Lep pozdrav

Bojan

[mikejohn]

Bojan
It's the like of kremsnita that makes Gerald the size he is!!


.........Mike

[wcsg]

33 just turned, and still dead sexy

[gerald_d]

We discovered kremšnita in Samobor (HR) last year - that's where I put one foot into Slovenia when the border guards weren't looking. Is 150kg a big size?

[bill.young]

An updated ShopBot Editor with a fix for a problem where files are opened as Read-only has been posted in ShopBot Labs (http://www.shopbottools.com/shopbot_labs.htm). If you have a computer that has this problem please download the update and help us test it out.

Take me to the Editor update (http://www.shopbottools.com/files/LabFiles/sbEditor.htm)

Bill

[bojan]

Cool, 150kg kremshnita!!

kremshnita:


(Far away from topic?!)

Lep poydrav

Bojan

[bojan]

hm, where is picture?

[bojan]

OK, this one is right size:

9057

[bojan]

OK, this one is right size:

9058

[trakwebster]

The 'copy machine update' on shopbot labs says --

"Notes...Requires an open source control (vbtablet.dll) that interfaces with the digitizing tablet. The control, a .bat file that registers it, and the licensing information for the control is included in the download. More information on the control can be found on Sourceforge."

This same note is found on the 'sketchpad' download page, and I can see why the 'vtablet.dll' might be handy for a digitizing tablet as used in the 'sketchpad' software.

But is this 'vtablett.dll' really needed for the copy machine update? Or is this just a typo?

[bill.young]

You're correct...you only need it that dll for the SketchPad. It was just sloppy Cutting and Pasting on my part when I put the pages together...it's fixed now.

Bill

[bill.young]

The file splitter has been updated in ShopBot Labs (http://www.shopbottools.com/shopbot_labs.htm)...thanks to some good feedback you can now specify the maximum number of lines in your output files and there's a little better feedback so that you know what's going on.

I'm working on a couple of new projects that will start out in ShopBot Labs...I'll post when they're up.

Bill