EPS Foam Signs for Clevaland County

[joe]

I've been making signs from beadboard and Dow Insulation foam. To harden them up, two coats of epoxy, sprinkled with sand, and a topcoat of ICI Stucco. In my previous post I hadn't finished up the Oklahoma State Seals. Epoxy mixed with a little blue One Shot in a big surrenge was used. Face letters we cut from DyBond and applied with E600


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[rej]

joe,
next time please document each step of the complete process and transfer to a disk.
i'd like to purchase one.
thanks
rej

[joe]

Robert,

Sorry my photo's didn't make it. I've posted them on a couple of other forums but didn't find an easy way on this update..

I'm pleased to know you are interested. Perhaps I should post my step by steps somewhere on my website so everyone could see the process. Since I'm terrible at computers, this may take some time. I'll try again and see what happens.



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[Gary Campbell]

Mr. Crumley....
Sir, you are more than an artist and innovator! Great post.

[kivimagi]

that's really cool.

You epoxied just the face where the letters are, or all around the sign?

How much epoxy did it take?

Bravo.

Ryan

[joe]

Thanks for the complements Gary. Wish I had your tallents with the tech. end of the business.

Ryan, I used about a half gallon to cover the complete sign. Our first attempt with Styro Spray was a total failure. The letters and state seal are PVC. I put the letters on while the epoxy was fluid, making sure a good bond was established.

The total combined cost was very low. However the experiments with texture coating, Styro Spray failure, slow epoxy hardening turned out to erase the savings.

I'm convinced more money would go in the bank if Id settle down on a standard process. Experiments are expensive.

4" PVC posts were insalled and glued in place, then the second half was epoxied.

To assure the first surfaces were extra hard, I used a 1" eps panels with a styrene surface. Much like gator board. Epoxy firmed it up rock hard.

I'd recommend this process. It makes a handsome sign that looks and feels like cast concrete but not subject to cracks and can be repaired with no blemishes.

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[scootie]

Good looking signage Joe. I like working with foam and texture also, it gives the ability to create monument signs in the shop that appear to be built on site. We recently finished a joint effort job for a dental surgeon, the sign was built for and designed by my friend Bruce at Ottway Signs, the goldleaf letters were produced by Mike Facemire at Goldleaf Letters, the stone pedestal was from a local contractor and my shop routed, coated and textured the sign panels and provided the routed letters and graphics. I used the pink foam, and a urethane 2-part spray on hard coat, DriVit texture thinned and sprayed with a hopper gun, and the final color coats were acrylic latex brushed and sprayed.
I posted a few pics of the finished sign on my website if anyone is interested, scroll down a bit to Featured Clients and view the Oral & Maxillo Facial Surgery. http://www.elliott-design.net/oral-maxillo.htm

Larry

[rej]

joe and larry,
could you each list the brand names of the epoxys and urethane hardeners and other key products you use?
this would be very helpful to a novice such as myself.
thank you

[scootie]

Robert, the urethane hard coat is from Chemical Design, Inc. it's a dual canister cartridge and requires a special applicator gun and an air compressor capable of maintaining 10 - 12 CFM at 90 to 120 PSI. Texture on this project was some leftover DriVit thinned a little and applied with a hopper gun. We also make our own texture finishes with exterior acrylic latex and sand. The texture fills small voids and imperfections so the routed foam does not have to be perfect. Glue-up is done with PL polyurethane construction adhesive, silcone adhesive, Gorilla Glue, Great Stuff Urethane foam, double-face tape, whatever feels best for the job at hand. Slightly sand the whole sign when through shaping to remove sharp edges, coat with the hard coat, Bondo is used for big dings or seams, prime with a good latex primer, shoot the texture, color any areas that need to be different than the texture coat. Practically all materials are available at one of the big box stores except the hard coat, Google "Chemical Design" for a location near you.
Larry...

[german]

As always Mr. Crumley and his exellent work, the only way I see you can speed up production is using a thicker foam like 3 or 4 inches, insted of glue several layers.
Nice job!

German.

[signtist]

Perfect timing Joe. I need to make a new sign for my wife Nita.
What glue do you use to glue styrofoam together?

[joe]

Robert,

We've been using PB Resin form www.precisionboard.com (http://www.precisionboard.com). It's way too slow. I'm looking for a three hour set-up which is thick like PB.

[billp]

Joe,
Have you ever had the chance to play with epoxy additives like micro balloons, or any of the powder/fillers like cab-o-sil, or some of the " fairing powders" such as the West System " 410 microlight fairing filler?" Once you work out how much powder/glop you have to use you can always get that consistency, and the fillers will retard the curing time of an epoxy enough to the point where you could almost dial in your time by the temperature.
OR get the " fast" catalyst, AND the filler and you could probably halve your sculpting cure time. The micro balloons and Microlight are MADE to sand, and they give a beautiful feather edge. Cab-o-sil is more of a structural filler and it's incredibly strong as an adhesive, but it's a bear to sand... So a topcoat of the soft stuff is the logical man's choice.....
This is more of the " cross pollination" of boat building/sign making/sculpting, etc., etc. that has started to generate some pretty remarkable shapes even using just three axes......

[joe]

Thanks Bill for the suggestions. You put your finger on one good point by using micro bubbles and their being sandable. On this kind of project, that's not very important. We're applying epoxy over a large area then the sand is sprinkeled on. One of the advantages of this kind of signage there isn't any sanding.

I'm still using wood dust from my belt sander as a thickening agent. It's cheap.

Now that I thought about it, you've recommended Mass epoxy in the past. I think I'll give it a try.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPIRQPSLGA&feature=player_embedded.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[Gary Campbell]

Joe...
A couple additions from South Florida. Due to the many boat/yacht builders here there is a extremely varied product line. We have tried both the "high end branded" and the generic products in both fiberglass and epoxies. There is no real rule of thumb, but in most cases you can find a generic product at near half the price, but not always on the first try.

My point to you is that you can find a combination of A-B epoxy that will meet your dry time, as it is very reasonable. You should be able to find a non branded product that will meet the performance of the best brands for a substantially lesser cost, especially if you buy 5 gal+ quantities.

There is no end to the types of fillers that you can find. Wood flour is good, but I would suspect it could absorb moisture if used on exterior surfaces. One that Bill didnt mention, but is one of the best, most expensive, and also one we never found a generic equivalent for is West Systems 404 High Density filler. It has a very consistant mix, ie. by portion you can go from thin gravy to thick, to ketchup, mayo, peanut butter and even to Play Doh. (boatyard nicknames for consistancy) It also doesnt seem to "cool" or retard the mix like some of the lighter fillers so you can get a quick kick if needed, even with 300% (volume) filler added.

[gene]

Is the blue that you are putting in with the sirringe is that paint?

[joe]

Gene, the blue is made by adding a teaspoon of blue One Shot lettering enamel in the epoxy. When dry it's glass smooth.

Gary, my tests shows wood flour, as a thickner, is very stable in wet condtions. I also wondered about this but it seems stable when submerged in water for a couple of days.

Wes Epoxy has sent me a couple nice sample kits to work with. If I keep on doing this kind of work I'll probably be ordering in 5 gl. quanity. Mas offers a thicker epoxy, so I'm moving in that direction. They advertise it doesn't blush and is UV stable. We'll see.

Thanks for posting

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[curtiss]

I noticed that Joe Crumley is just a "Senior member."

I would think he would be qualified for a level above that such as "Sir Shopbot...."

How are these levels determined ???

[cartar929]

very cool production process, where did you get those nice pieces of thick blue foam from?

[joe]

John Arnott,

Sorry for my late post to your question. Somehow I didn't pick it up. I have been using epoxy for everything.

C,

I got lucky and found the 3" foam at a near by construction company. It's just luck and persistance.

Gary C.

I'm with you on finding off name products which are always less expensive. Any product advertized for boats or air planes seems to double in price.

[rej]

today i was directed to the abracadabra website for epoxy.
i ordered the smooth and the sculpt.
has anyone here used their product?
if so, do you know of a cheaper product that is just as good?
thanks

[joe]

Robert,

I have both but haven't used either of them very much. I tried to make some rose pedals with sculpt. I learned right away it takes more skill than I thought. It's not friendly as good old clay. You can use parchment paper and a rolling pin to flatten it out. Then smooth with water.

I've used the Smooth more as a glue than anything else.

Several other artists have told me to look at Wholesale Taxidermy supplies. That's where these products are made and used.

I'm interested what you come up with. I'm sure you've figured out by now I soak up all the information I can get.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[rej]

today i found a new product on line called amazing sculpt.
i called a distributor in washington state and they said it works great and it it less expensive than abracadabra.
you thin it down with denatured alchohol.
i'm going to get some and try it.

[toych]

Joe, do you have a picture of the finished product?

[joe]

I'm building another foam sign with a Art Deco look. Will post later.

[joe]

What absolute fun making these signs back in 2010.

[guitarwes]

Excellent work and technique!

[joe]

Wes

Thanks for the complements.

During this period the forum was very active and under to topic heading of Signs we had several excellent sign artist who contributed lot of good information. I miss those days.

[dvmike]

Joe , did you ever post the details ?
I'm working on some ideas for a monument type sign such as this that will be about 18" thick . To use HDU will be far too expensive !
I would be interested in some of your ideas on an EPS sandwich !