Software upgrade giving me problems

[psbac@earthlink.net]

I just upgraded my shopbot to the latest software in use. I now have a slight problem with my x and y axis. When jogging or moving either of my axis they don't stop in the correct location. They over shoot or under shoot by as much as .04 inches.
I ran both axis back and forth 30 inches 10 times each, then I recalibrated. It still didn't fix the problem. (I think I'm recalibrating the correct way but I'm not 100% sure.) Also when moving the x axis a certain distance my y-axis will change location by as much as .004 of an inch.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I really like the new version and would like to continue using it.

NOTE:
In my previous software version my x and y units were set at 127.5 and worked perfectly.
When I reload my older software and set the units to 127.5 it works perfect again.

[eburg1]

I had the same problem. The Readme file walks you thru the installation process. I assume you have a cable drive unit. This software is configured for the R&P units. You have to delete the Shopbot.dfl file and rename the pr96cab.dfl to Shopbot.dfl. Also delete the Shopbot.ini file and then boot the program. It will create a new ini file. Then calibrate the x and y axis.

[psbac@earthlink.net]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm still having problems. I did follow the readme file to the tee and I also deleted the ini file like suggested.
For some reason it seems to me that the software doesn't think my x and y axis are parallel or perpindicular to my table. Why else would a simple x or y movement effect the other axis?
Even when I tell the x axis to jog over 20 inches the software will tell me it's moving it to approx. 19.998 inches andmy y axis to .004 inches.
I don't think the calibration would effect that.

Can anyone shed anymore light on this problem???

[birdsofplay]

Respectfully, I not sure that SB even guarantees accuracy better than .02, do they ?

To be sure, your are not alone, I too have seen this "on screen" annoyance and sent the SB off for lots of Zeroing operations ( no doubt unnecesarily) but I've not experienced actual measureable "issues".
Then again I havent tried measuring that close. I'll never become an approved source for NASA :-)
I do lots of drilling patterns down 96" boards
and they dont "look" "off". ;>}

This is woodworking, and I wouldnt even ask my SB to try to be accurate to .004. Slight humidity changes make wood "move" more than that.IMHO

I've opted to focus on the work not the display, because I like lots of the "new features" in Sb2B10. I mean ... it is still Beta, right ?
Ted will fix it eventually.

My guess is that Ted is getting into some "roundoff" errors in the program, possibly in the display routines.

[birdsofplay]

OK OK OK Sorry

applogies to SB et al.

here is a cut and paste from the specs pages...

Re-cut/re-position accuracy is approximately 0.01". Pattern reproduction
accuracy depends on precision of calibration, but in the same range.

[psbac@earthlink.net]

I know, I shouldn't be worring about .004 of an inch. But when I tell my shopbot (and it has always listen before) to move 20 inches to the right it d***** well better move 20 inches to the right!
I just don't understand how an older version "1.8" never had this problem (even from the start), but a new improved version does.
I thought for sure I was doing something wrong when installing or calibrating the software. But I guess this problem is widespread with the cable models.
I just haven't notice anyone else posting any messages regarding this.

[jforney]

Pete
I had many of the same problems that you have, including movement of the y axis during x moves, y axis losing track of where it was, and problems with two parallel lines of drilled holes being off by upto 1/8" over 50 holes. My solution after many hours of work. Changed to the new bearings and a rack and pinion upgrade. Quite expensive, but certainly worth it.

I could never get my machine to do exactly what I wanted. Close but not close enough. Now it is the machine that I wanted in the first place. I just bought too soon.

I'm sure that this isn't what you were looking for but it was a solution for me.

By the way, many problems showed up after I changed software. Don't know if it was software related or the fact that maintaining my cable shopbot was getting more difficult every day.

John Forney

[birdsofplay]

Just wondering ... I dont use the encoders any longer.
I was wondering if you guys still are ?

Here's why I ask ...
Without encoders the machine wouldnt know where it was, by sensing.
It would only know by assuming that it went where it was told to go, right ?

So without sensors the problem HAS got to be inside the programs' " mind ".

I guess I'll have to setup a couple of dial indicators and test the display vs reality.

I have sent the machine off to do an XY zero on the end-switches and once it's done the display "sometimes" "POPS" up a few thousandths "off of 0", but, like I said before, I would just disregard it.
To be sure IT WAS ANNOYING, but "work must go on" !

I guess I've decided that it's easer " Living in Denial" or in a similar note ...
the " Abrasives Folks just Love ME" !

[psbac@earthlink.net]

John,
Like you, I too bought my shopbot to early ( like 2 1/2 months too early). I would have gladly waited for the new rack and pinion style but the people at Shopbot told be it was still in the testing stage and far away from going into production. (OOPS!!)

What upgrade package did you get?
Was it hard to retro fit?
I hope to upgrade eventually, but I can't justify the expense, yet. (Especially to my wife and kids!!!!)

I'm just starting to (very slowly) come up with some good ways to make extra cash on the side with my Shopbot.

I guess I'll live with this annoying software problem for awhile!

[Ron B]

All,

I have a large cable 'Bot' I just converted to 'Rack and Pinon'. My own design 'thrust boxes' and the original (smaller) motors.

This morning while cutting some signs, I noticed some 'flexing' and 'binding'. The only thing I can figure out is the 'screen door' rollers are binding. I happens most in the 'jog X' mode with the jog speed set 3 or more IPS.

The repeatibility seems to be better.

BTW - the Typeset program works great for quick signs. It 'almost' looks like chip carving.

Ron

[jforney]

Pete and Ron
My upgrade was $1800.00 for the rack and pinion, upgraded driver boards and new stepper motors. I had already bought the new bearings with cost $160.00 ($20 each for 8). That makes a total of about $2000.00, which is only a thousand more than if I had bought it now for $3995.00.

The upgrade needs the new bearings as far as I am concerned. If you have a cable system with the old bearings buy the new ones. Just that alone will make the machine much more stable.

The upgrade didn't take too long, an afternoon of actual work. It took as long to take all the cable and bearings off as it did to put the rack and pinion on. Since I sent my box back to Shopbot to upgrade the inside, I tried to do the upgrade spread over a few days. If I were to do it again, I would wait until everything came. Some things are not in the paperwork that came with the upgrade. Little things like a change in the color wire and the fact that if like me, you need to change connectors, the outboard z motor wires need to be different or it tries to go in a circle (i.e. both motors turning the same way.

I have to stress that through it all, Shopbot answered my questions and gave me all the support I needed. I remain impressed with the quality of the entire staff of Shopbot.

As far as the price difference for my upgrade, I got to use the machine for over a year and made much more in profits. (Part of message deleted - admin)

John Forney

[birdsofplay]

I havent gone with the new wheels yet but have upgraded everything else.
I was told the new price with 8 wheels and new adjustment plates etc was over $200. Apparently you need the newer plates because the new wheels are larger dia than the older cheapo wheels.

Um .. ?
Where did you get that price on the Vector ?
Does SB have other stuff that "we all" don't know about ?
Hello Ted ??? If it's there on the web pages it's "hard to find" !

How do you like Vector ?
Personally, I couldnt get used to it after having learned other CADS. The "first learned syndrome" I presume. It was nice that it directly output SB code, however.

[jforney]

Bob
I was told that the price of Vector ...(admin edit) by shopbot. I know that they are trying to get the manual in shape and I think they are downplaying Vector until they get their ducks in a row.

I was told by Chris that they are working with In Depth Systems (www.indepthsystems.com). Tomorrow, I will be carving a file that was sent to me by Shopbot. I'll let you know what I find out.

Do I like Vector? Yes. And that is in spite of the horrible manual (disjointed and translated from another language) and the (for me) steep learning curve. Would I recommend it? Absolutely. In fact, since Shopbot will be selling and supporting it, it seems like a necessity. Since I don't know anyother CAD-Cam system I can't compare, but the ease of getting a cutting file to Shopbot is what sold me. I can, through a lot of trial and error, carve out text to give a sandblasted sign effect. I use it for my panel processing and when I make arched raised panel doors (Hundreds). I actually cut a separate radius for each door and panel. I can't stand the template system where the shoulder changes and the arch stays the same within the template (i.e. 18" to 19" etc). My shoulder stays the same and the radius changes. Vector allows me to plot three points and make an arc. I then output the shopbot code directly. I know that Shopbot is working on the circle code to work with Vector.

I am glad that I bought from a company that thinks of the existing customers and looks forward. I'm excited about some of the directions that Shopbot is exploring. Good company, good product, great people.

John Forney

P.S. I didn't get paid for the great people comment (or any comment for that matter).

[edcoleman]

John:

Interesting to hear that the shopbot folks are working with indepthsystems. I just ordered a couple of files from them today to try out. I'm really looking forward to seeing the output I can generate from them.

I tried VECTOR a while back and found it fairly difficult to learn, and since the dxf converter works so well (for my projects so far), the fact that it output shopbot code directly wasn't enough of an advantage to go through the learning curve.

I agree with your comments on the support from the shopbot folks, they've not failed me yet. It will be interesting to see what (if any) 3D software programs they migrate to, since I'll probably follow.

-Ed

[gerry]

For anyone having trouble jogging at speeds over 3 ips, try increasing ramp distances. Our r&p unit will jog at 5.5 to 7 ips if the jog distances are over 3". I also made up some x axis braces and "cured" x flexing and loss of "square". I'm working my little Norsky brain to the bone figuring out a decent y bracing system.I'll post pictures as soon as I figure out how.
Keep dodgin' those chips.
Gerry N.
Nordic Tugs