SB vs waterjet cutting

[joa]

I haven't quite got my new SB together yet but in the meantime I've been thinking about competing with a local waterjet cutter who does a lot of parts for a big RV company (etc.)

What advantages does the SB have over waterjet cutting? What arguments can I use in my marketing favor?

Surface finish? Kerf (and radius')? Accuracy? Multi-depth cuts? Etc.

Thanks folks!

[arthur_ross]

COST!

You can probably slide in under his pricing and get some business he won't touch because of the overhead required (care and feeding of the waterjet).

You can also do 3D carving, which a waterjet can't.

Arthur Ross

[joa]

So how exactly do you "slide in under" his pricing? That's a big question- how do you know how much your competition charges?

Is it better to second guess or to just quote purely on your internal costs and margin and then see how many jobs you get or lose? And then if you get the job you always wonder how much you were under by and then whether to adjust your quote the next time.

BTW, any of you willing to share what you budget/charge for machine time and what you budget for setup/drawing time? Curious how it compares to my initial estimates.

[bruce_clark]

Joa,

You could always call the competing shop and have
them quote a similar job you are willing to do.
That will give the EXACT bid you have to beat.
Note, they might also figure in some small
discount for good repeat business customer, so you
will have to take that into consideration.

Another approach is to take the RV guy out to
lunch and see if he is willing to farm out some
small jobs first. Once you get your foot in the
door and they see you are dependable and do
quality work, you can ask him directly for more/
larger projects.

Lastly, you could approach the waterjet people
directly and ask them to send you business they
cannot/will not do on their machine. Some shops
are so busy, they would welcome you, as they keep
more customers in-house and they do not have to
buy/train/maintain another machine/operator.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

[rfpaul@hotmail.com]

Pricing, I like to know what other Shopbotter's are charging for there products! There's a woodshop in my area that has a 4' wide belt sander and they do custom sanding, they charge $1.00 per minute with a $10.00 setup fee! I'd like to hear from other Botter's if this formula could be used with the S/B. Rick

[birdsofplay]

Whoa ... $60 per sounds good to me !!!

Where do I sign up ?

Those sanders arent that expensive in the 1st place ! Grizz $450 Jet $750 etc.

Buffers adn Polishers in the musical inst industry might get that but ...

Oh well what ever the market will bear :-)

[krkprod@mw.sisna.com]

The 3D angle makes a good approach. Go down and look at the RV finished product. Look for parts that you can make. Make a sample item with similar curves, rounded edges, and finish. This should also give you an idea of the time required for a piece. Lease prices on equipment typically recover the cost in a year. This should be divisible by 1600 to give you an hourly maintenance/depreciation cost. Add bits to this. Now you have to set the value of your time and the cost of setup.

Good luck.

[ggressel@fuse.net]

I have been working with several shops with waterjets and CNC (mills and routers). Personally I believe that you are comparing apples and oranges. For cutting applications such as steel aluminum, stone, glass or other "hard" materials the waterjet is the clear choice. But as mentioned above the waterjet is mainly a "cutter" while the mill or router is a "carver" For carving applications the router will be the clear preferred technology. For softer material either technology could work though I would doubt that a router could cut as fast as a waterjet on most materials.

As for quotes on waterjet. A typical rate for waterjet cutting is $120-150/hour. I have used a shop as low as $75/hour but it is the exception.

[birdsofplay]

Just wondering if anyone has reached capacity with their Shopbot and ventured into LASER cutting services.

Actually I am considering outsourcing some products due to quantity and wanted to know if anyone has ever gotten quotes for Laser cutting of wood parts.

There seems to be so many to choose from in a web search.
A Ball Park figure is all I need at this time.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

I don't know if this helps, but I've had laser engraving done on wood and could not believe how little it cost. $7.00 CDN for 4 lines of text including our logo. Maybe the guy was cutting me a deal. Depending on the wood and thickness, laser looks pretty fast. I've watched acoustic guitar tops (1/8" spruce) being cut at what looked to be 12"/sec.

I get a fair amount of tooling laser cut from 1/4" mild steel. The average cost per piece is $15.00 CDN. Factoring in our labor, we couldn't make them out of MDF for that much.

I've had some carbon fiber waterjet cut, I don't remember how much it was, but it wasn't painful and I didn't have any carbon fiber waste to clean up.

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Why don't you ask a laser engraver? I have 2
of them.. also Carroll Bradshaw now has a laser
ans is getting up to speed, he's in the lower 48
so his pricing is probably diff. than up here in
northern B.C. Canada..
And example is ( a wooden name tag) the wood cut
finished and engraved the size of a business
card, logo txt whatever..is $5.50 plus magnet or
pin...canadian..cheers..

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Bob,

Several years ago some of the balsa suppliers for model aircraft offered
laser cutting services. Of course they sold the wood also.

Ron Brown - rgbrown@itexas.net (mailto:rgbrown@itexas.net)

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as
possible from one class of citizens to give to the other."
--Voltaire

[birdsofplay]

Thanks guys ! That was quik :-)

Um ??? I didnt ask a laser site YET since I couldnt make up my mind as to Which One.
There are so many found via Web Searches.

My Balsa supplier is NOT taking any more custom cut business.
A second guy doesnt "want" to do Steel Rule Die" work of my shapes ? :-( sigh ...

So I though I'd ask here to get a feel and mabybe
a trustworthy place to deal with.

I'll be back on the trail come Tuesday

L8r, guys