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Ajcoholic
06-25-2014, 10:13 PM
This thread will be about my new table I am making for my Shopbot Buddy.

I talked about the parts I got it in the other thread, but I will recap here, as to keep things clear if anyone is interested.

The parts consist of:

-3 lengths (72") of 1/4" thick aluminum angle, 1.5" by 2.5"
-2 lengths of linear rail (2000mm), 16mm diameter, and 4 linear bearings
-aluminum extrusion from Hubbard CNC, to make up a table 59" long by 56" wide
-misc bolts and nuts, etc.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2137_zps06f3613b.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2137_zps06f3613b.jpg.html)

First, I cut one of the angles in half - two pcs 36" - and laid out the holes to attach the bearing blocks. 10-32 flat head machine bolts countersunk from behind. Slotted the angle, to allow attachment and vertical adjustment on the side rails of the Buddy.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2156_zps458ee5d0.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2156_zps458ee5d0.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2154_zps3dbbf610.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2154_zps3dbbf610.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2157_zpsb3094b0d.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2157_zpsb3094b0d.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
06-25-2014, 10:14 PM
The linear rails were mounted to the length of aluminum angle, with 10-24 bolts.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2158_zpsfa96c342.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2158_zpsfa96c342.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2160_zps0d90d513.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2160_zps0d90d513.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2161_zps8d588923.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2161_zps8d588923.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
06-25-2014, 10:17 PM
After the rails were trial fastened to the sides of the Buddy, and shimmed to make sure that both rails were exactly parallel, and parallel to the powerstick, I sat a section of the table extrusions on the powerstick, and tried moving the powerstick back and forth. Very smooth. This is going to be awesome!

More tomorrow... I have hopes I will be able to dedicate at least a few hours of my day to this job.

AJC

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2159_zps3cb50317.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2159_zps3cb50317.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2162_zps7ab6ccb9.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2162_zps7ab6ccb9.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2163_zpsa7649a65.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2163_zpsa7649a65.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
06-25-2014, 10:21 PM
Once the new table is set on the powerstick and new rails, I can bolt everything down. Making sure that the T slots are square to the X axis, and also that everything is in the same plane.

Then I will lower the stock table rollers down a little as they wont be necessary anymore.

scottp55
06-26-2014, 06:25 AM
Andrew, Although I see it's your usual precision work, I must admit I'm dismayed at the change in your style. You've gone from graceful sweeps and fairings of Maloof to the 90's of Frank Lloyd Wright. I must remind you of a comment made when FLW started making furniture "It is the most UNcomfortable chair I have ever sat upon".
Although I'm unfamiliar with that species, you've done a wonderful job of grain matching(it MUST be the same tree), I was wondering what finish you plan on using to bring out the "inner beauty"?
While I admit the blue is a wonderful shade, I wish you would go back to your natural finishes and "Let the wood speak for itself". Very Art Nouveau style, but I'm afraid it would clash with my Craftsman decor.
I hope your "Angular Period", doesn't last long, as your customer base may be adversely affected.

Simops
06-26-2014, 04:48 PM
Andrew.....couple of quick questions......

First of the pics have clarified what you are doing.....good clear pics.

1. The linear bearings.....now I know what they are......very interesting system....I could use them in another application......how did you find them? Who would retail such bearings? I gather they are stainless steel?

2. Having an aluminium table......I gather you are not contemplating having vacuum in the future? If so are you going to cut out inlet holes into the ally deck?

Cheers

Ajcoholic
06-26-2014, 07:37 PM
So after pretty near a full days work, I am done. And, it seems to work really well!

I started this AM with cutting the angle pc that the bearings were attached to, as I needed to move them inwards 3" on each end, so that when the table was at the extremes, the linear rail didnt fall out of the bearings.

Then, I spent the most time adjusting the angle height to make sure both linear rails were parallel again, and level with the power stick.

Then I started bolting down the pcs - starting in the middle - and makign sure the T slots were alligned with the Y axis (on my stock machine - I didnt move the X and Y axis).

After all bolts were in, I made a few pcs of 1" Baltic birch to extend the ends of the table the full length of the rails.

With the rollers lowered out of the way, the table is super smooth when moved by hand back and forth. No flex at all when pushing down the width of the table (as there shouldnt be with the 1" thick aluminum table supported at both ends and in the center).

I tried a few cuts, and it is awesome. Just so smooth and solid. I also ran a 1/4" aluminum end mill (a carbide one made to cut aluminum) just grazing the surface, to give me the 48" by 48" outline of my work surface.

All in all, it was worth it IMO - but time will tell. But I feel pretty good about spending the time and $$ on this upgrade.

AJC

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2164_zps5b35af43.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2164_zps5b35af43.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2165_zpsd55ad7f5.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2165_zpsd55ad7f5.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2167_zps9ef208a7.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2167_zps9ef208a7.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
06-26-2014, 07:39 PM
Andrew.....couple of quick questions......

First of the pics have clarified what you are doing.....good clear pics.

1. The linear bearings.....now I know what they are......very interesting system....I could use them in another application......how did you find them? Who would retail such bearings? I gather they are stainless steel?

2. Having an aluminium table......I gather you are not contemplating having vacuum in the future? If so are you going to cut out inlet holes into the ally deck?

Cheers


I got the linear bearings on ebay. TONS of sellers from China selling these things.. I have bought some before, locally - and much more $$. The steel rails/rod is available in several diameters. I beleive these two 2000mm ended up costing me about $350 Canadian, shipped to me, with the 4 bearings.

YEs when I get the pump I will have to cut the 2" hole(s) for the plumbing up through the table. Wont be much of an issue - there a lot of meat on the bone so to speak. A few holes that size wont change much!

Ajcoholic
06-26-2014, 07:40 PM
Andrew, Although I see it's your usual precision work, I must admit I'm dismayed at the change in your style. You've gone from graceful sweeps and fairings of Maloof to the 90's of Frank Lloyd Wright. I must remind you of a comment made when FLW started making furniture "It is the most UNcomfortable chair I have ever sat upon".
Although I'm unfamiliar with that species, you've done a wonderful job of grain matching(it MUST be the same tree), I was wondering what finish you plan on using to bring out the "inner beauty"?
While I admit the blue is a wonderful shade, I wish you would go back to your natural finishes and "Let the wood speak for itself". Very Art Nouveau style, but I'm afraid it would clash with my Craftsman decor.
I hope your "Angular Period", doesn't last long, as your customer base may be adversely affected.

Yikes... Scott lets just say I dont mind doing this kind of work once and a while but a metal man I woulnt want to be full time. I dont like getting my hands dirty. Wood dust is so clean! ;)

Ajcoholic
06-26-2014, 07:43 PM
Here is a video of the first cut on the new table. Just cutting the pockets in the end pc of Baltic birch... 1/2" end mill, 12500 rpm, 240 IMP I think cut speed, 1/2" deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da-kA_gbrkE

Ajcoholic
06-26-2014, 07:48 PM
And just to recap, the total cost to me for the materials was:

Aluminum angle and delivery $200
Linear guide rails and bearings delivered $350
Aluminum table extrusions and delivery $1113
Misc bolts and hardware $25

Just round it off to $1700 Canadian. Plus about 8 hours of work.

dana_swift
06-27-2014, 06:18 PM
Andrew, as usual that is first class work!

I have maintained that a significant part of my shopbots quality is the 1/2" aluminum bed for the table. You will find the same thing, a reliable, consistent bed you can attach a spoilboard to, or vacuum table, or dedicated hold fixtures, or... in your case who knows what all you will come up with?

The ALS "Aluminum slab" makes a lot of setup better/easier than the bots I use that dont have it.

Now the bad news, beginners will gouge the table if the spoilboard is not thick enough. I have never dug into the ALS, but I have ruined my share of spoilboards when Z "went south" or the bit slipped in the collet. An exposed aluminum bed asks for a gouge when X and Y are in the wrong place when Z wants to go south. Spoil boards are easier to replace and cheaper than aluminum. I suggest you might want a "sacrificial" board on top of all that shiny new metal :)

Just my musing- but for the folks looking at putting in an aluminum table, its a big improvement. You can buy them already made- they are called "optical breadboards". Look em up. They are flat too and pre-drilled with 1/4x20 holes on a 1" grid. There are metric equivalents for the metric users.

Andrew, thanks for the beautiful and inspiring work-

D

Bob Eustace
06-27-2014, 06:56 PM
Beautiful work as usual Andrew and thanks for sharing your thought processes. Mods like this are 90% thought and 10% actual manufacture. My only concern is keeping the muck out of the linear bearings as you have them on their sides. I realise the trade off with using solid round rod is less rigidity but you do get 100% sealing. It will be interesting to see if your mods influence Shopbot at all. Very impressed with the video.

On your Kent dust shoe if you angle it at about 30 degrees it makes bit changing a bit easier (of course this might only apply to old fellas!)

A million thanks for sharing with the class. A table of cost, sizes and sources would be great for those following in your footsteps. You are an inspiration to us all Andrew with what you fit into your busy life!

Ajcoholic
06-27-2014, 08:58 PM
Andrew, as usual that is first class work!

I have maintained that a significant part of my shopbots quality is the 1/2" aluminum bed for the table. You will find the same thing, a reliable, consistent bed you can attach a spoilboard to, or vacuum table, or dedicated hold fixtures, or... in your case who knows what all you will come up with?

The ALS "Aluminum slab" makes a lot of setup better/easier than the bots I use that dont have it.

Now the bad news, beginners will gouge the table if the spoilboard is not thick enough. I have never dug into the ALS, but I have ruined my share of spoilboards when Z "went south" or the bit slipped in the collet. An exposed aluminum bed asks for a gouge when X and Y are in the wrong place when Z wants to go south. Spoil boards are easier to replace and cheaper than aluminum. I suggest you might want a "sacrificial" board on top of all that shiny new metal :)

Just my musing- but for the folks looking at putting in an aluminum table, its a big improvement. You can buy them already made- they are called "optical breadboards". Look em up. They are flat too and pre-drilled with 1/4x20 holes on a 1" grid. There are metric equivalents for the metric users.

Andrew, thanks for the beautiful and inspiring work-

D


Nice to hear from you Dana! I havent seen you post in a while. Yes, I assume the aluminum deck will be a lot more "flat" over the long haul. My plan is to start cutting more cabinet parts on my machine, and the truer the table the better my parts.

I always use a pc of 1/4" MDF as a spoil board. But, I have the vacuum pump on the way, and plan to make a plenum/spoil board set up to finally be able to cut sheet stock the "right" way.

I do cut a lot of wooden parts (like chair seats which I seem to make a fair bit of) and these I always make a wooden fixture that gets clamped to the table and acts as a spoil board as well.

I havent ever accidentally cut into my MDF top so I am hoping my 2 1/2 yrs experience will keep this one safe. However, the Hubbard table design allows a very simple swap of each individual section, if required. I really like this set up!

Also, I will appreciate having a lot more slots, closer together than in my old MDF top. And, they are 5/16 T bolts VS the old one which I was using 1/4". The Incra clamps I had were easy to bore out to 5/16" diameter and swap the T bolts with the larger ones and a 5/16" star knob.

Ajcoholic
06-27-2014, 09:07 PM
Beautiful work as usual Andrew and thanks for sharing your thought processes. Mods like this are 90% thought and 10% actual manufacture. My only concern is keeping the muck out of the linear bearings as you have them on their sides. I realise the trade off with using solid round rod is less rigidity but you do get 100% sealing. It will be interesting to see if your mods influence Shopbot at all. Very impressed with the video.

On your Kent dust shoe if you angle it at about 30 degrees it makes bit changing a bit easier (of course this might only apply to old fellas!)

A million thanks for sharing with the class. A table of cost, sizes and sources would be great for those following in your footsteps. You are an inspiration to us all Andrew with what you fit into your busy life!


Thanks Bob. I did think this out for a long time before committing to purchase the parts. Nothing really is available close by, so I had to find the parts on line and take a chance so to speak.

The linear bearings also give me some concern in terms of longevity - however, they seem to have a really good sealing wiper seal which should keep the dust out. I am not worried about the coarser shavings as they are too large to get in between the rod and the bearing body. But the finer dust... we'll see. They dont seem to be very expensive and I might get a set as a spare. I did use a similar bearing on a few other pcs of equipment in the past, with a home made felt seal, that I soaked with oil. I might also make up a felt seal and place it on either side of the bearing blocks as well.

Sometimes these things as you know take some tweaking and experimentation before things work out. But I have hope this will be a much better long term solution than the stock MDF table, or even my roller held down set up that served me well for 2 yrs... but I always knew could be better.

AJC

dana_swift
06-28-2014, 10:45 AM
Nice to hear from you Dana! I havent seen you post in a while. Yes, I assume the aluminum deck will be a lot more "flat" over the long haul. My plan is to start cutting more cabinet parts on my machine, and the truer the table the better my parts.

I always use a pc of 1/4" MDF as a spoil board. But, I have the vacuum pump on the way, and plan to make a plenum/spoil board set up to finally be able to cut sheet stock the "right" way.

I do cut a lot of wooden parts (like chair seats which I seem to make a fair bit of) and these I always make a wooden fixture that gets clamped to the table and acts as a spoil board as well.

I havent ever accidentally cut into my MDF top so I am hoping my 2 1/2 yrs experience will keep this one safe. However, the Hubbard table design allows a very simple swap of each individual section, if required. I really like this set up!

Also, I will appreciate having a lot more slots, closer together than in my old MDF top. And, they are 5/16 T bolts VS the old one which I was using 1/4". The Incra clamps I had were easy to bore out to 5/16" diameter and swap the T bolts with the larger ones and a 5/16" star knob.

I have changed my forum activity to reading a couple times a week instead of daily. The forum is still a great asset to the SB community and your posts are an excellent example of that. I still learn something significant often enough to stay involved. So I'm still around, just posting less. :)

***

On the vacuum table, you will get spoiled quickly in my experience. Your blower will handle bleed better than my 5hp vane pump, but I am so accustomed to getting panicky when the vacuum bleeds down to 15"Hg, where most systems cant get up that high. I put tape on fresh cut through areas to reduce the leakage and keep the suction up. A bit tedious and labor intensive, but I can cut smaller parts that way using a generic vacuum table.

I have found cheap 1/8" Masonite makes a great cover for the parts of the vacuum table that are open and unused and it seals them nicely. If the bit ever strays into the Masonite its no big deal. I take it over to the band saw and true up the edges occasionally.

Also blue "painters masking tape" is a handy seal for around the Masonite and the workpiece. I keep rolls of the stuff around in an array of widths, probably you do too.. this is just another use for it.

Keep us posted-

D

Ajcoholic
06-30-2014, 08:56 PM
Somebody wrote me a message about my new table - I saw it on my iphone and thought it was a PM (which I usually respond to on my computer after work) so I deleted it. I guess it was an email through the forum, not a PM.

Please send it to me again, I am sorry I deleted the trash before I realized what it was..

Andrew

Ajcoholic
07-11-2014, 09:14 PM
I am still waiting for the vac pump... it was held up this week at the border (paperwork screw up on the Custom's Brokers part) hope to get it this week.

I am so busy right now, I probably cant get time to hook it up until after I go for holidays anyhow. So, if it comes this week it will be two weeks before I get to play with it. :(

Oh well, ROme wasn't built in a day, lol...

Simops
07-11-2014, 11:21 PM
Hey Andrew.....me too......my Regen blower is shipping and should be here in next week or so. On holidays for a couple of weeks in August so will start on the redesigned table with vac then.......hopefully you'll have yours going by then so I can steal some ideas from you!!:)

Cheers

Ajcoholic
07-12-2014, 03:02 PM
Mike, I received my 1.5"x3" aluminum tube in, but I also need to get the piping and valves/fittings. I will wait until the pump actually gets here.

My plan is to have it sitting in behind my Buddy. I will run two lines to the table, one on each side of the power stick.

I'm itching to start cutting much more sheet material on my machine, but it all hinges on the pump. The new table is amazing. But clamping 4'x4' material and cutting cab parts out is too slow.

I am certain with the 10HP pump, cutting cab parts will be easy without tabs, etc. Or tool path tabs or onion skin and remove on the machine afterwards, but on the table.

I have already invested in some new tooling (insert style spoilboard cutter, some new mortise-compression 1/4" and 3/8" spiral carbide bits, etc) as I am anticipating using the machine much more to assist in cutting cab parts, especially melamine.

I am hiring another full time employee (experienced) in a few weeks time - and I am anticipating being able to ramp up my cabinet production.

The next few months will be intense - new man in the shop, new edgebander, new CNC table & vac pump/hold down. I have jobs lined up that hinge on my new setup to work well. Fingers crossed...

But the life of a small woodworking business seldom changes. Im always looking for ways to do more, more efficiently and therefore (hopefully) make more $$ :)

Simops
07-12-2014, 04:45 PM
Hey Andrew if you weren't busy you'd be bored.....it keeps you off the street:)

The 1.5 x 3" tubing......what is this tubing normally sold as.....where did you source it? Square pressure tubing is not something common.....well I haven't seen it around. And the fittings for square tubing?

Best if luck with all that is happening.

Cheers

Ajcoholic
07-12-2014, 10:33 PM
Hey Andrew if you weren't busy you'd be bored.....it keeps you off the street:)

The 1.5 x 3" tubing......what is this tubing normally sold as.....where did you source it? Square pressure tubing is not something common.....well I haven't seen it around. And the fittings for square tubing?

Best if luck with all that is happening.

Cheers

The tubing is just 1/8" wall 6063 aluminum. I got it from an ebay seller, same as the other aluminum parts. Not too many metal shops up here deal with aluminum in special sizes other than plate or rounds. Easier to order it and be done with it.

Again, since the vacuum is about -5 PSI I dont forsee any issues with the aluminum. I will close the end with another pc of plastic or aluminum and silicone seal. Cut an opening in the side that will mount under the table and go through up into the plenum. I think a section of plastic pipe will do the trick.

As for the end the flex vac hose will attach to, I guess Ill make something up. or drill and fit a 2" or 2 1/2" fitting to the side of the tube.

I know everything will work out. I've been through a lot in the 20 yrs Ive been in this business, and my father before me for another 20+ yrs. We've always managed to work things out.

Today, as far as the shop goes with the tools and machinery - the shop is the best we have ever had it. I keep saying "we" even though my dad isn't working with me. But, I still consider it "our" shop and the family business still includes him. I think he is pretty impressed with what I have done in the past 5 years on my own. I've been running the business since 1997, but he was working with me up until late 2009 when I moved and started the new shop.

Simops
07-13-2014, 01:35 AM
Yes Andrew your shop is now not only an asset but a legacy!!

I think from memory that Brady used square tubing with his Buddy vac.....but can't find it now......might have been custom made.??

I'll explore this further as I think that is the best way to plumb the moving table....

Cheers

Ajcoholic
07-15-2014, 06:45 PM
Well, the big (and I mean BIG!) 10HP regen blower/vac showed up today. Looks great. Electrician will be coming to wire it in and get a disconnect & starter installed.

Now, the plumbing is going to be a little "trickier". It seems here in my community of 50,000 people, it is looking like it will be very difficult to source all the parts I need without ordering and waiting 2 to 3 weeks for stuff to come in.

I have ordered a Fuji vac booster/filter to not allow the pump to overheat. It replaces the vac relief valve and is made for this sort of application.

I think I will try and plumb everything with 2" PVC - and use a heavy duty 2" ID spa/pool hose for my flex hose from the pump to the tubing.

I think I will be custom making transitions from the rectangular tubing to the 2" line. I will know better when I get a chance to take a better look at everything.

Ugh, sometimes there is no easy way to do things.

AJC

Ajcoholic
07-15-2014, 09:49 PM
Well I managed to order some 2" ID reinforced flex hose from one place (with end fittings). Some ball valves from another. And the vacuum booster and filter from another.

Will hunt around town for some 2 1/2 and 2" pipe fittings, the rest I hope I can either machine myself or cobble up from other fittings.

Off on holidays next week. So, hopefully things will come in while Im gone and I can devote some time to it when I return.

Ajcoholic
07-30-2014, 07:44 PM
OK, I decided to spend most of today plumbing in the machine.

I still do not have my flex hose (I will try some black shopvac hose I have on hand, but I think it will collapse) or the vacuum booster - but everything else is done.

I ran a Y from the intake, two valves (to control the two zones) and then to another Y on each run, and a run with a second valve open to atmosphere up in front of the machine. These valves will allow release of vacuum to allow parts change without turning off the pump.

The most work was the aluminum channel. I strapped and mounted the tubing to the deck with machine screws. I made a hard maple plug for each end and sealed with aluminum silicone. For the hose end, I used a 2" PVC coupler and a short length of pipe that went into the tube, siliconed and strapped for a mechanical support as well.

The trickiest part was drilling the hole through the new aluminum deck - to clear a coupler (that I turned down in length on the lathe) and then a smaller hole in the top of the aluminum tube, that the 2" PVC nipple/coupler feeds into. Last thing I did was silicone the coupler and seal it all around the deck opening.

My plan is, when I make the plenum, to drill two 2 3/8 holes directly over the two couplers embedded into the deck. There will be a short length of 2" pipe, that will be glued into the plenum (maybe sticking out the bottom side 1/4").

WHen I want to use the vac table, the plenum will just sit on the aluminum table and the holes will align with the nipples in the plenum.

All I need to do is screw on the vac booster when it arrives, and put in the flex vac hose - I have the rubber couplers which fit snug around the hose and I will silicone and tighten it to seal.

Hope that I get a chance to complete this in the next few days. Eager to try it out..

And see if this was all worth the time & effort, and cost.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2228_zps7343ceaf.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2228_zps7343ceaf.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2229_zpsce65f598.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2229_zpsce65f598.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2230_zps5221a053.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2230_zps5221a053.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2231_zps3c013c1d.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2231_zps3c013c1d.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
07-31-2014, 07:46 PM
OK, today I didnt do too much, but I cut a 51" by 51" pc of 3/4" MDF for my plenum. Centered it on the table and then used a router with a bearing guided straight bit to cut the holes (2 3/8") that will hold the pcs of PVC pipe.

It should make sense now... the 1" long sections of PVC will get glued into the plenum, and stick down 1/4". They will sit in the siliconed in couplers in the top and seal things up nicely.

I didnt push the pipe down all the way yet.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2232_zpse414ca35.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2232_zpse414ca35.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2233_zps3b36ad4a.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2233_zps3b36ad4a.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2234_zps7eda2f38.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2234_zps7eda2f38.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
07-31-2014, 07:47 PM
Tomorrow if I can, I will cut the channels and seal it up with lacquer.

My vacuum booster came in today. The hose was shipped and should be here mid next week!

AJC

Ajcoholic
08-01-2014, 12:44 PM
Well just breaking for lunch. I got the booster installed this am. Also cut my plenum board. I had to try it without any sealing and with some low quality (flimsy) shop vac hose I had. With the bleeders half open as not to crush the hose, and a sheet of Un-skimmed 3/4 mdf... The holding force on a relatively small pc of melamine or mdf was impressive!!!

This is very promising. I took off the plenum and gave it three coats of lacquer before we left for lunch. After I want to skim on face of the mdf and glue it to the plenum.

More later. Oh yes my real vac hose is due to arrive next Wednesday.

Simops
08-01-2014, 05:20 PM
Andrew....remind me again what is the vac booster....pic? And got a pic of your plenum?

Cheers

Ajcoholic
08-01-2014, 06:07 PM
OK Mike, I have to tell you that today was one of the most exciting days with the router yet!

I did cut my plenum, but forgot to take photos - until it was too late as my spoil board got glued down.

After lunch, I put the now lacquered plenum on the table. Then, turned on the vacuum (remember with the two release/bleeder valves 1/2 open as not to collapse the shopvac hoses) and placed the 3/4 MDF panel on the plenum - it was held fast. Skimmed 50 thou off the face and then flipped it over and glued it down, and skimmed the other side.

I also edge banded both the panels (before I glued them).

Once the now skimmed MDF was glued to the plenum, I was playing with the holding force, seeing how various pcs of different materials and sizes were held down. I was pretty impressed.

THEN... I briefy closed both bleeder/release valves. WOW!!! I had a pc of 3/4 MDF that was primed on one face, about 20" by 5". I could NOT budge it, and I mean I was trying hard. A 12" by 24" of anything (1/4" MDF, melamine, plywood etc) was impossible to move sideways. If you got under it, you could break the seal but it was being held with increadible force.

However, the shopvac hoses were flat as a pancake. So even with almost no airflow, and most of the 48" by 48" surface open to atmosphere there was such a great force holding down the parts.

Once I get the good hoses next week, I will really get to test things out. But I am certain this will be THE ticket for holding cab parts.

I know it has been done so many times before. But, after spending the $$ and time to do this, I was still habouring some doubt it was going to be worth the effort and $$ spent.

My plenum was REALLY simple. I cut a grid of 1/2" wide (used a 1/2" end mill) grooves, 1/2" deep, with 1" left between them. I did only 4 diagonals- one from the center of the hole out to each corner. No fancy radial channeling, etc. All the commercial plenums are a square grid so I figured it would be good enough for me.

Here is the underside. I lacquered the heck out of it.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2235_zps05df6f69.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2235_zps05df6f69.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-01-2014, 06:13 PM
The plenum on the deck, with the 3/4" MDF spoil board I skimmed 50 thousandths off each face.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2238_zps7c9470dc.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2238_zps7c9470dc.jpg.html)

And the plumbing... finalized. After I got the vacuum booster yesterday, I had to remove the metal T fitting as this replaced it. Had to add one elbow to get the pipe back on track. I also added some 90 degree elbows to get the hoses facing rearward to not get tangled up on one another.

WHen I get the real vacuum hose (I ordered 50mm Festool vac hose by the way, which is 1 15/16" internal - same size as this shopvac hose I am using but much much stronger) I will only have as much as needed to allow the table to move. I didnt want to cut these hoses as I can use them for something else.

The vacuum booster looks like some sort of venturi thing, where as long as airflow travels through the pipe, it doesnt allow air to come into the system from the filter. But when the air flow drops down to next to nothing, proportionally more air is alowed in to the filter and keeps the vac holding power up but no over heating damage to the pump. And, it is very quiet. No whistles or screaming.

They cost 2 1/2 times the cost of a bleeder though.

Here is a link... where I got it from (scroll down a few pages)..

http://www.carymfg.com/ring-compressors-parts-accessories.htm

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2240_zpsa6f0a725.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2240_zpsa6f0a725.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2237_zpsc92a65e9.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2237_zpsc92a65e9.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-01-2014, 06:17 PM
The booster is the T fitting thing directly before the pump. The cloth thing is the filter cannister, with a filter bag over it, that allows the air in when the pump is dead-headed.

I would like to thank EVERYONE on this forum, present and past (I looked up a lot of old posts for ideas and so forth) that have given info freely on doing this sort of thing. Brady for the aluminum tube idea, and others for the input on the plenum, spoil board, etc. Everyone here is a great contributor, thanks much!

I am so amazed at how this thing will work for me, from what I have seen today...

Cutting plywood will never be the same again!! :D

Ajcoholic
08-01-2014, 09:36 PM
Here is an Aspire rendering of my plenum.

The two zones are split on either side of the power stick.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/plenumrendering_zps1fbd4db9.png (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/plenumrendering_zps1fbd4db9.png.html)

Simops
08-02-2014, 05:29 AM
The booster is the T fitting thing directly before the pump. The cloth thing is the filter cannister, with a filter bag over it, that allows the air in when the pump is dead-headed. :D

Excellent effort and outcome Andrew! Should be proud of yourself to get it this far so quickly. It will take me quite a bit longer as I have many competing jobs to do as a priority.....will get there though eventually.

Meantime I'm having a little difficulty working out from your pic the booster and canister filter??

Cheers

Ajcoholic
08-02-2014, 08:19 AM
Excellent effort and outcome Andrew! Should be proud of yourself to get it this far so quickly. It will take me quite a bit longer as I have many competing jobs to do as a priority.....will get there though eventually.

Meantime I'm having a little difficulty working out from your pic the booster and canister filter??

Cheers

Did you look at the link? It just looks like a gray PVC T but there is "stuff" inside of it. No moving parts though. It works on the movement of air, pressure diffferentials etc.

On my setup, the vac booster is screwed directly into the regen blower, then the filter comes straight off the end. The first white PVC 90 elbow which leads to a Y is the intake side of the vac booster.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ScreenShot2014-08-02at81321AM_zps65455a5f.png (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ScreenShot2014-08-02at81321AM_zps65455a5f.png.html)

scottp55
08-02-2014, 09:24 AM
It's looking really good Andrew! Glad it's working out. Should help some Buddy people out a LOT.:)

scottp55
08-02-2014, 09:29 AM
Oh, A pic of you or your pup sitting on one end of one end of one of your longer benches hanging out in "No Man's Land" while vac held down the other, would be TRULY impressive:)

Ajcoholic
08-02-2014, 12:40 PM
Oh, A pic of you or your pup sitting on one end of one end of one of your longer benches hanging out in "No Man's Land" while vac held down the other, would be TRULY impressive:)

Well, Gibson wont go anywhere near something like the regen blower never mind the router, while its running. He doesnt like the noises in the shop.

The physics of the vac bleed through thing is still funny to me. You know how it works, yet you kind of dont really believe it until it is working right in front of you. I am not sure how it will work on solid wood - but I plan to still use fixtures and clamps to hold down larger furniture parts. Those sorts of things were never a problem for me. My vac plenum is also very easy to remove in a minute from the aluminum table.

The upgrade to a flatter aluminum table, and then the vacuum was specifically done to help me cut more cabinet parts (and other things that I do from sheet materials) easily and more productively.

I am trying to get more into some lesser expensive, yet higher quality (than the competition) stuff like melamine cabinetry. Previously I would use Lamello or Domino biscuits, and glue the carcases together. Now, since I have Cabinet Parts Pro (which is a very cool program for sure) I can cut melamine parts out, take them to the edge bander and then just glue the case together without any (or at the least very few) screws. I just dont like cabinets held together with screws and/or nails.

The vacuum set up was the last thing in the list of requirements.

I made my first cabinet with the CNC - took 6 minutes to cut out on the router (with the top and bottom and back all being rabeted into one another) less than 2 minutes to edge band, and the just glued together with no other fasteners needed.

Even with the 48x48 cutting surface, all I need to do is halve the sheets on my panel saw before I set them on the CNC. Very rare that any standard cabinets are larger than 48" - other than a pantry - and I can of course still do the odd cabinet with the biscuits. But the CCP/cnc/vac way is going to be so much more efficient time wise.

Even with stuff like the kids furniture I make, and other stuff I regularly cut from 12mm Baltic birch ply (I got through quite a bit of that stuff) it will be much better and so much less of a pain to not to have to cut tabs, worry about hitting clamps, etc. Never mind having the ability to have sheets with a slight bow held down flat.

Ajcoholic
08-04-2014, 09:23 PM
Today was a civic holiday here in Ontario, Canada - but being self employed I decided to get at least 1/2 a day of work in, and the other half I took off to both spend some time with my family, and catch up on some business paperwork I could do at home.

At noon, my wife came by the shop with my son to see the shop (he's asking more and more to go see daddy's shop).

I showed my wife the vacuum setup, and demonstrated the same smaller pc of primed MDF with the remainder of the spoil board open, with the two release valves still partially open.

Although she doesnt get quite as excited as I do about these things, she seemed impressed. Mostly that my efforts and $$ spent will actually benefit my work.

Hose is due Wednesday. I cannot wait to actually try the whole thing out with a proper hose that wont collapse. And with the bleeder/release valves fully closed.

I have a feeling with the 10HP regen blower, that I wont have to worry too much about the through cuts allowing too much air to bleed through the spoilboard. Better too much air flow than not enough.

I am more interested now in seeing if I can use a pc of 1/4" MDF under my part, on top of the spoilboard - in order to keep the spoilboard from being cut up. Much easier and cheaper to replace a 1/4" half sheet. Whether the airflow will pull through enough or not will be the kicker. I know it is done on big machines though. EVen 3/8" or 1/2" thick MDF.

Ajcoholic
08-06-2014, 06:11 PM
Well, the UPS man just dropped off my box of Festool 50mm vacuum hose.

I certainly hope that the hose will withstand the vac, it is much more substantial than the shopvac hose.

I will cut the hose and install it tomorrow, and give it a test run!

I already have a test file to cut - a 1/2 sheet of 12mm Baltic birch, that I cut out three sets of parts for one of my children's step stools. But this time no tabs :)

More feedback tomorrow! If it works, I can call the installation a success and finished. If it doesn't, well not sure what the next step is in terms of hose... but I'm going to be positive and figure the German's know how to make a decent vacuum hose :D

Ajcoholic
08-07-2014, 07:37 PM
OK, after a few more hours of fooling with the hose(s) I finally have gotten it beat.

I had ordered the 50mm Festool vacuum hose - the silver "non conductive" one - since it is much cheaper in proce than the green anti-static, conductive version.

I have two Festool vacuums with the boom arm support, in my shop. The boom arm requires a length of 50mm AS hose (which comes with the package) and based on the strength of that hose, I knew it would do the trick in my vac hold down setup.

I assumed that the non AS version of the hose would be the same hose without the carbon in the rubber, but the same strength. Not so... the hose is actually quite a bit softer feeling. I cut two pcs and put it into the setup, but when I turned on the regen blower and started moving the table around, the hoses started to pinch where they did the 180 bend.

So, I "stole" the AS hoses from my boom arms, and placed those in the CNC vac setup. They worked great! No tendency to fold at all.

I used the non AS hose in my boom arms, and just jumpered the connectors with a length of wire to keep my Festool sanders static free.

The price of the Festool hose here in Canada is $224 for 13' of the AS hose, and $139 for 13' of the non AS hose.

Here are the hoses installed:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2254_zps30217f10.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2254_zps30217f10.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-07-2014, 07:44 PM
The first thing I tried to cut was three of my kids step stools. The parts need a full 1/2 sheet (48" by 48") of 12mm Baltic birch. I cut almost all the way through, and then did a 2nd pass to cut though. I also tried a few of the side pcs a full through cut in one pass.

Not wanting to cut into my spoilboard that was glued onto my plenum, I placed an un-cut sheet of 1/4" MDF between the BB and the spoil board. It was still holding down pretty good.

I cut the parts out just fine. Just one of the narrow pcs came loose from the vac but the sheet was kind of curled up at that corner so I expected it.

Over all, I was very impressed with the strength of the hold down and how it performed.

I also am doing a run of craved chair seats for some kitchen chairs. I had to cut the pattern out of 1/2" ply to make sure the outline would fit. I just placed the ply blank on a pc of 1/4" MDF again, and placed it on the spoilboard (without covering up any of the open sections - that typically would leak too much air through). Again, no prob, nothing moved and I did a full cut through in one pass...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2252_zpsdcdf323e.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2252_zpsdcdf323e.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2253_zps39de1017.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2253_zps39de1017.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2255_zpsb425c45b.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2255_zpsb425c45b.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-07-2014, 07:59 PM
So, I guess this ends this chapter of my Buddy - the upgrade first to the all-aluminum table, then implementing the universal vacuum hold down.

Was not without a little head scratching and the odd doubt that this would be worth it... but, after what I have done so far I think it will make an already very functional and useable machine that much more. I have some melamine cabinets to make next week - to further test and fine tune my new edge bander, and also to test run the CPP & the vacuum table - and some new router bits etc.

Ajcoholic
08-07-2014, 08:05 PM
One final note - now that I can run the regen blower with the release valves 100% closed, the noise is very reasonable. It is still actually less volume than my central dust collector.

And, with the spoil board fully covered with the uncut sheet - you can feel the air rushing into the filter attached to the vacuum booster - but there is no squealing, as many have said occurs with the simpler vacuum relief valves.

Simops
08-08-2014, 05:58 AM
Well done and dusted Andrew. It helps to have a 10Hp blower....and 3 phase power...... oodles of grunt!!

Look forward to completing my attempt at some stage soon.....I can only have single phase and 2Hp so I'm not very optimistic of the same holding power.....will give it a try and see......may have to add a second blower......

Cheers

Ajcoholic
08-08-2014, 01:28 PM
Well done and dusted Andrew. It helps to have a 10Hp blower....and 3 phase power...... oodles of grunt!!

Look forward to completing my attempt at some stage soon.....I can only have single phase and 2Hp so I'm not very optimistic of the same holding power.....will give it a try and see......may have to add a second blower......

Cheers

Yes Mike getting that 10 hp blower used from the for sale on this site was a blessing. I think the German made unit will last my lifetime and then some, and was still (after freight) 1/2 the cost or less than the Chinese Fuji 20hp unit I was looking to buy.

As with most things mechanical, there is no replacement for horsepower! :)

Ajcoholic
08-08-2014, 09:13 PM
Sorry, I meant the Fuji 10 HP (not 20) that I was looking at.

Today I had to machine some dining chair seats. The plenum/spoilboard is easily taken off the deck on my Buddy. Just loosen the 4 Incra clamps, and lift it off. I can easily do it without help.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2257_zpsf74eaf37.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2257_zpsf74eaf37.jpg.html)

Then I can use the T slot/clamps to fixture my furniture parts that I dont want to hold down with the vacuum.

I can switch back to vacuum within minutes.

I just made a few wooden plugs to put in the PVC pipe entry holes... with a steel washer, so I can use a magnet to lift them back up when I want to put the plenum back on.

Andrew

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2256_zps33094506.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2256_zps33094506.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-14-2014, 09:10 PM
A small update - regarding my linear rail side bearings (that support the side of the new table).

I noticed that the aluminum angle that holds the front bearing blocks to the side of the Buddy chassis was slightly flexing inwards. I also started to hear a little popping noise hear and there while machining.

I had ordered some more bearing blocks (they are not expensive) and just a few days ago, one of the bearings parted ways with a few of the ball bearings.

I believe that there was a little extra stress from the rails not being 100% parallel - I'm only talking maybe 1/32" or so but they have no play what so ever. So, I will be redesigning the mounts, so they will be able to flex somewhat side to side - but still hold the bearing blocks at the right height.

I will mount the bearings on a length of 1/8" plate aluminum that will be spaced out 1/8" from the Buddy chassis. Then, bolt the plate to the Buddy chassis above the bearings by a few inches. Then the aluminum plate can flex in or out as the rails travel back and forth. Hopefully eliminating the issue of undue stress on the bearings themselves.

I thought as well, the aluminum table might expand and contract in length through the seasonal change in temperatures (from about 60 degrees F in winter to upwards of 85 F in the summer) and the flexible plates will also allow for this.

Hope to change the bearing tomorrow - the replacements came in today. I have more work to do on the router so I need to get this fixed immediately.

Good or bad, I will report here to help anyone trying to do something similar.

I am confident that this will fix the issue. I might end up placing two bearings side by side (8 total) to halve the load on each bearing. These 16mm bearing blocks are available shipped from China, for just over $20 US from some sellers... I ordered a second set for spares as well.

gc3
08-14-2014, 10:45 PM
ominous to have a bearing failure so soon...did you see this flex on both sides? to fab a flexible linear rail system seems to be going in the wrong direction to me...did you check table rail run out with a dial indicator? why not shim bearing blocks to parallel? might be a combination of all the factors...table expansion spoil board movement cutting forces vacuum ect ect...this design looks difficult to keep rails bearing block clean of dust/debris...keep the rails clean and lubed bearing blocks can get filled with fine dust easily causing issues... this has to be the first router I have heard of with a flexible rail system...good luck

Ajcoholic
08-14-2014, 10:53 PM
ominous to have a bearing failure so soon...did you see this flex on both sides? to fab a flexible linear rail system seems to be going in the wrong direction to me...did you check table rail run out with a dial indicator? why not shim bearing blocks to parallel? might be a combination of all the factors...table expansion spoil board movement cutting forces vacuum ect ect this has to be the first router I have heard of with a flexible rail system...good luck

Gene,
What I failed to mention is that when I was assembling the setup originally I may have damaged one of the bearings (popped out some of the balls - I think the rail was not lined up properly). I put the balls back in, and thought it was fine but it was that bearing that was causing the issue.

The machine will work of course without the bearings/rails. They are just there to help support the outer edges of the table and keep the table level.

In my opinion (and I am a woodworker not an engineer) if the bearing block is free to flex slightly towards and away from the side plate of the Buddy (remember that the Buddy sides are not 100% parallel and the powerstick is also not 100% parallel to them - very very close but not exact) it will reduce the stress on the bearing yet still keep the height (where it will not be able to move) accurate.

Ill take a picture and it will make more sense I think. I have several things going on tomorrow but I hope to get it done.

Andrew

PS in terms of cleanliness - I have looked at ways to mount the rails and bearings upright as standard practice - it would be possible. I will change just one thing at a time however and see how it goes. Again, the bearings are quite inexpensive and if I need to change them a few times at $20 to $30 a set, no problem.

Ajcoholic
08-16-2014, 12:24 PM
Well I just finished re-doing the bearings. Just one was bad, the one I ham fisted originally. The other three were perfectly fine.

Just heading home. Will post pics of the new holders that allow some flex. I think this will be the ticket!

Ajcoholic
08-16-2014, 01:10 PM
OK, so what I did was this: instead of having two linear bearings hard mounted to the Buddy side rails, I mounted the bearings (I went with three just because I got 4 new ones and had three of the originals that were fine) on a pc of 1/8" aluminum, spaced out by another plate of 1/8".

The bearings were in stress in tension - just slightly. But now there is more than enough flex in the plate to compensate for this, and the bearings are still held in the vertical position, which is the whole purpose for them anyhow.

I noticed a few thigns when I took off the rails and bearings this morning... first, as soon as the one bad bearing was take off (the one that had lost a ball and then several) the table was very free once again. I believe the stock V rollers and rails are adequate to handle the weight of the table as the movement is silky smooth. But, to remove any flex of the table in width, the rails are necessary.

As far as cleanliness goes, 99% of my machining produces chips not dust, and the bearing's seal seemed to be doing an adequate job of keeping the crud out. I am thinking of a way to have an easy to remove cover/seal that would help by not letting the chips fall on the rail in the first place. Will come up with something.

And finally, in order to set the height, I put a 1/2" pc of steel iin the collet and went around the whole table at the same Z position with a feeler. Raised or lowered the bearing plates until they were all reading the same. This should keep my Z height very consistant as before, but again, compensate for any slight varience in the width of the rails.

Will report back in the future if any other issues arise!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2263_zps4b8cbdeb.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2263_zps4b8cbdeb.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2264_zps211ffad0.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2264_zps211ffad0.jpg.html)

shilala
08-17-2014, 12:14 PM
I like the idea of the linear bearings and angle iron, just to catch the edges of my table.
I could make the next table wider to reach the sides. I think that'd really help to keep the surface nice and flat, rather than relying on the rollers that don't catch anything most of the time.
I priced out 1/2" high grade aluminum and it'd only cost me around 500 bucks. I already have the table layout from shopbot, so it's easy enough to make. I can easily put a sacrificial something on it, too.
This will make me take a look at the linear bearings next time I replace my table, for sure.

gc3
08-17-2014, 06:12 PM
if you start getting into deep profile cuts you may not be able to use your dust shoe and even though you may produce "chips" there are still the fine dust particles associated...and from experience...those bearing block seals do not keep out 100% of fine dust particles...even with covers, wipers dust will get in

Ajcoholic
08-17-2014, 09:50 PM
if you start getting into deep profile cuts you may not be able to use your dust shoe and even though you may produce "chips" there are still the fine dust particles associated...and from experience...those bearing block seals do not keep out 100% of fine dust particles...even with covers, wipers dust will get in

Gene, I've been a professional woodworker my whole life - on my 20th year full time running the business, and worked at least 10 before that for my father. I well understand that in a woodworking shop, dust gets EVERYWHERE! :D I replace other bearings semi-regularly, or take others apart and clean, etc. I am constantly cleaning rails on various machines as well, etc etc etc.

These bearings, at $20 a set are cheap and easy enough to swap out once a month if necessary. But I really dont think things will be as bad as some fear. I am not scared! lol.

In the worst case, I can just take the whole rail and bearings off the machine if something better rears its head in the future. The thing is I am not afraid to experiment, try new things and also accept some failure if things don not work out. No worries...

Ajcoholic
08-19-2014, 08:10 PM
First real test of the vacuum set up today. I ran several 1/2 sheets (48 by 48) of baltic birch ply, cutting many small parts out.

I did have to leave some small tabs as some of the pcs were only a few inches square.

Ran the vacuum from 8:30 am to just before 1pm. No issues, the Bot is running super smooth and everything was cutting beautifully.

Love the Vac!!

AJC

tlempicke
08-20-2014, 07:12 AM
Andrew

I am modifying my Buddy table to have the same bearings and slides as yours does. A couple of questions'

What is the type number of the extrusions that you made the table from.

It appears that the T track is three slots wide and three inches wide. How is one fastened to another to give a piece six inches wide, nine inches wide and so on.

I am thinking of mounting a dial indicator to my carriage to get the table true. Does this sound like it would work?

Tom

Ajcoholic
08-20-2014, 09:02 PM
Andrew

I am modifying my Buddy table to have the same bearings and slides as yours does. A couple of questions'

What is the type number of the extrusions that you made the table from.

It appears that the T track is three slots wide and three inches wide. How is one fastened to another to give a piece six inches wide, nine inches wide and so on.

I am thinking of mounting a dial indicator to my carriage to get the table true. Does this sound like it would work?

Tom

Tom,
There is no number. I got them from Hubbard CNC and they have just the one extrusion I am familiar with - it is actually two sections, the T track one and the U shaped ones that join up the T track ones. They cut the length you need and you just buy enough pcs to make up whatever width you require.

Look back at the photos I have in this thread.. or in my other buddy table thread. I took some photos I believe.

The T rack is for a 5/16" bolt. The thickness is exactly 1".

Not sure what you mean by dial indicating...what parts exactly the indicator would sit on and what would be indicated?

Ajcoholic
08-20-2014, 09:04 PM
Here are the extrusions as delivered to me... The left side are just a few sections stuck together to see how it goes.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2136_zps4b0ee673.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2136_zps4b0ee673.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
08-27-2014, 09:04 PM
So the new bearings seem to be working really well. The table is smoother than ever and I have been cutting a lot of stuff lately.

I am going to try a new plenum, however. After seeing all the commercial CNC routers in Atlanta at the IWF show, and speaking to other SHopbot users - I have ordered a sheet of 3/4" Starboard ST and am going to make a new plenum from it, that will get bolted to the aluminum deck. I have a pacage of 1/4" vacuum gasket that I will use to go around the perimeter, and am planning to use a 3/4" MDF spoilboard tha will not get adhered to the plenum just sit on it.

Just trying some new ideas, etc. :)

Ajcoholic
08-29-2014, 09:10 PM
Well I received my sheet of 3/4" Starboard ST today, and also the 75' roll of spoil-board gasket also arrived. It is a neat "D" shaped gasket designed to fit into a groove with a round bottom, but be flat on the top.

I am hoping to get a chance to machine up the new plenum next week...

Of course I will report back when I do :)

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 06:45 PM
I took advantage of the holiday today, to go to the shop and get an uninterrupted afternoon's work in on the new plenum.

Just to clarify - there was nothing "wrong" with the MDF one but..

-I thought that the Starboard ST would stay flatter
-would allow a non-glued spoil board, which would be easier to maintain & replace
-would be 100% leak free vs lacquered MDF
-would also allow a closer grid pattern VS MDF which even at 1" squares left several broken

So my plan was instead of using clamps to hold the plenum to the aluminum deck, I wanted to use 6pcs of 5/16" bolts and T nuts. I wanted to have a few somewhere in the middle to make sure the center didnt flex/curl upwards.

First thing was to position the sheet of material, mark out the holes and drill and counter bore to accept the bolts.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2292_zps5e3be6fc.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2292_zps5e3be6fc.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2291_zps03313373.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2291_zps03313373.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 06:46 PM
Then I ran the file with a 1/4" ball end bit, to .24" deep, which was going to accept the "D" shaped gasket material. I ran the channel around the bolts which would make sure not to leak air.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2293_zps28cd198e.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2293_zps28cd198e.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2294_zps61febd8a.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2294_zps61febd8a.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 06:51 PM
Then I cut the channels. Using a 1/2" diameter bit, I cut 3/8" deep (same as I did with the MDF) however instead of leaving 1" lands between the grooves, I left only 1/2". Theoretically giving me twice the # of grooves and double the area under the spoil board that has air "sucking" under it.

The Starboard machines so beautifully!! I used a chip breaker down cut carbide spiral (2 flute) at 10,000 rpm and 180 inches per minute. Not at all aggressive but it was my first time cutting this stuff and at $341 for a 48x96 sheet I didnt want to experiment on the wild side :)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2296_zps9dcf59e8.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2296_zps9dcf59e8.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2298_zpsfb1fd1af.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2298_zpsfb1fd1af.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2300_zps18096c0f.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2300_zps18096c0f.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 06:52 PM
After the channels were cut - I pressed in the gasket and sealed the ends with some medium CA.

I also cut the two holes that join to the vacuum piping - as before, with a flush cut bit in the hand router, following the pipe set into the bed. Then a 3/4" section of PVC was press fit into the plenum (a tight fit) and down into the union.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2301_zps9c11d4bc.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2301_zps9c11d4bc.jpg.html)

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 06:56 PM
The last thing to do was cut a new pc of 3/4" MDF, and face one side, flip it over and face the other side.

The vacuum sucks the MDF tight to the plenum - and I plan to seal the edges afterwards. I just didnt have time to do it today.

Test running the vac, I believe from just trying various pcs of material I had used with the original plenum/spoilboard - it seems to be holding even harder now. Which would make sense since there is a lot more grooving in the plenum.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_2302_zpsb4eaa7a2.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/IMG_2302_zpsb4eaa7a2.jpg.html)

That's all for now...

If anyone wants my plenum file just ask.

Ajcoholic
09-01-2014, 07:29 PM
...Theoretically giving me twice the # of grooves and double the area under the spoil board that has air "sucking" under it.
...

This doesnt make sense after I re read it.. I have a 1/2" groove and a 1/2" land vs a 1/2" groove and a 1" land in the MDF.

Measuring the actual area of space VS the total area, in the MDF plenum I had 61% air space. With the new plenum I have 75% air space. Definitely more, but no where near double..

The holding seems better anyhow :)

scottp55
09-01-2014, 11:12 PM
Pretty productive "Holiday" I would say Andrew:)
NICE.

Simops
09-02-2014, 04:13 AM
Hi Andrew.....What is Starboard? Is it a plastic?
And if you don't mind I'd like a copy of the plenum file to work with....thanks

Out of interest.....the rubber gasket....how high does it sit in its groove? Is it ossicle that when the MDF spoilboard is sucked down it could dip down between the gasket which is on the periphery?

BTW.....how far from home is your workshop?

Cheers

Ajcoholic
09-02-2014, 08:22 AM
Hi Andrew.....What is Starboard? Is it a plastic?
And if you don't mind I'd like a copy of the plenum file to work with....thanks

Out of interest.....the rubber gasket....how high does it sit in its groove? Is it ossicle that when the MDF spoilboard is sucked down it could dip down between the gasket which is on the periphery?

BTW.....how far from home is your workshop?

Cheers

Yes it is some sort of dense plastic

The gasket is only just a little proud of the channel. Maybe 0.020". I'm not sure what you mean by the dipping down question?

My shop is 15 km from home and takes me about 15 minutes to drive. It's ten km by highway and 6 km down a rural road.

Simops
09-03-2014, 12:50 AM
The gasket is only just a little proud of the channel. Maybe 0.020". I'm not sure what you mean by the dipping down question?

I guess 20 thou is not a lot but what I was meaning is that if the perimeter was 20 thou higher than in the centre, when you apply suction, won't the centre dip down by 20 thou......or is the gasket soft enough to compress 20 thou.

Cheers

Ajcoholic
09-03-2014, 01:14 PM
The spoil board gets sucked down tight against the plenum. The gasket is a closed cell foam which is very soft.

Ajcoholic
09-06-2014, 02:35 PM
Yesterday (Friday) I was cutting some pcs from 3mm (1/8") Baltic birch plywood. The pcs were about 5" diameter, and were being held down very firmly, I was surprised actually.

The "funny" thing was I was machining a 5/16" hole in the center and accidentally put 1.26" in the program instead of .126"... and cut the hole through the MDF spoilboard (but not through my new plenum - I stopped it in time).

I was very surprised at how strong the suction force was, over that single 5/16" hole!

FWIW - I have not yet edge banded or sealed the perimeter of the new MDF spoilboard, and had at least 1/2 of it uncovered/un masked.

Simops
09-06-2014, 06:02 PM
Andrew, I think having a 10Hp blower has something to do with this!!!!

No doubt bigger is better.....if you have the capacity to do so, nothing wrong with over- engineering better than the inverse! I think with 3 Hp I will struggle so guess will have to learn how to onion skin! Next workshop I'll make sure I get 3 phase installed.....

Cheers

Ajcoholic
09-07-2014, 02:04 PM
Andrew, I think having a 10Hp blower has something to do with this!!!!

No doubt bigger is better.....if you have the capacity to do so, nothing wrong with over- engineering better than the inverse! I think with 3 Hp I will struggle so guess will have to learn how to onion skin! Next workshop I'll make sure I get 3 phase installed.....

Cheers

No doubt it is :)

I am still relatively new at this vacuum thing - but the more I use it, the more I wish I had done it sooner.

I removed the plastic plenum Friday afternoon as I have some solid wood parts I started to cut/machine for another table (leg parts). The separate plenum and spoilboard are even easier and lighter, to get off the table. Removing the bolts and the panels takes a few minutes - as does putting them back on. That is also a key thing - easy to switch back and forth.

Ajcoholic
09-13-2014, 01:54 PM
OK, just a small update on the new plenum. I think this is going to be WAY better than the MDF plenum/spoilboard.

Why? Well, the plastic plenum is quite light after all the routing of the grooves and is easier to put back on and remove from the router. The bolts hold it securely - and doesnt seem to want to move at all VS the MDF which can try and move with the slightest change in humidity.

ALso, the now "not glued down" spoilboard also makes taking it on and off much easier since you arent trying to lift both the plenum and SB in one shot. Also, I have surfaced both sides and use both - flipping it often - to keep the spoil board balanced and less prone to warp. Also, changing the spoil board is obviously going to be easier (just have to grab a new 1/2 sheet of MDF) not having to have to glue it down.

The gasket works really well. I still havent bothered to seal the edges of the new plenum and it is holding pretty small parts well enough to not move while cutting.

Ajcoholic
09-13-2014, 08:41 PM
And if you don't mind I'd like a copy of the plenum file to work with....thanks



Mike, send me a pm or email with your email and I will forward the file to you.

Ajcoholic
10-04-2014, 12:05 AM
Man oh Man I am loving both the aluminum table, and the vacuum hold down!

This is working far better than I could have imagined. Even holding smallish (10" by 8") solid wood pcs for machining with the vac has worked out great.

And, IMO the plastic/Starboard plenum with the gasket, and non-attached spoil board is the way to go. It has been superb! :D

The next upgrade so to speak will be raising the gantry 3". Material will be here Monday, Ill start a new thread as it really has nothing to do with the table upgrade.

Ajcoholic
12-21-2014, 10:08 AM
Just a year end update...

The replaced bearing ( back in August) and the new supports which allow them to move sideways a small amount are working great!

The entire surface has stayed dead flat over the past 4 or 5 months. Everything has been working beyond my expectations and now I can cut sheet stock accurately to within 0.005" anywhere on the deck.

I'll keep this updated every so often...

Ajcoholic
12-21-2014, 10:14 AM
The next upgrade so to speak will be raising the gantry 3"....

The lift has also worked well. Nothing noticeable in terms of less accuracy of stiffness. But the extra 3" makes loading and unloading of 48" by 48" sheets much easier. And of course thicker material or longer bits can now be used.

Simops
12-21-2014, 03:48 PM
Yep I lifted my buddy gantry by 1.5" and it's been great! Fully recommend doing it.Don't hit the upper limit anymore now....

Cheers

Ajcoholic
12-22-2014, 07:54 PM
Mike, so for me, I think this pretty much maximizes what my machine can be made to do... :)

That's a good thing, means I don't have temptation to spend any more $$ on it... and just use it now.

WHen I got the machine one month shy of 3 yrs ago, I never thought it would be so useful and also so easy to use, as it is now.

Through 4 variations (including the provided one) of tables - finally I think this will be it for the rest of the life of the machine. And, the vac as I have stated several times have so far exceeded my expectations in every way...

Now I guess if they sold an ATC for the Buddy I'd probably be thinking about it, so it's good that there isnt one, lol :D

Simops
12-23-2014, 01:52 AM
Andrew.....I thought an indexer would have been on your shopping list for the Buddy? With furniture making would have thought a turning device would be useful!

Been thinking of getting one but missed the boat......the Aussie peso is now worth well over 20% less than it did a year or so ago. Won't be buying anything major from the U.S. now for some time.

Cheers

Ajcoholic
12-23-2014, 04:17 PM
An indexer interests me but honestly I don't think I'd use it much right now. Fancy carved turnings are not popular in my area right now. More modern simpler styles have a hold here.

But if things change in the future it would be easy to add if necessary.

Ajcoholic
02-15-2015, 08:52 AM
Just changed my spoil/bleeder board Friday. Once again using a good, dense cabinet grade of MDF ( sold here as superior grade, made in Canada)

I just skim 30 thou off each face of the 3/4" board. Pulls vac through like crazy.

If you can't get light or ultra light weight mdf don't get too hung up on it, at least here in Canada.

Ajcoholic
02-21-2015, 05:00 PM
And just an update.. back in August when one of my bearing blocks went south, and some talk about them being side mounted and getting full of dust etc was discussed... It was unknown how long these cheap import bearings would hold up.

I am pleased to say that since my bearings were changed to the mounts that have some sideways flex, it has been 6 months and the table is silky smooth, without any further issues.

We'll see how things are in another 6 months.

Ajcoholic
07-07-2015, 09:04 PM
Nearing one year - no further issues with anything - table/bearings/vacuum pump working superbly! :)

I rarely remove the plenum any more. I am holding even solid wood parts via the vacuum table, generally I just joint the wood right before I machine it, and it gets held down more than strong enough to machine.

Ajcoholic
09-19-2015, 12:01 PM
So we've passed the year mark since I changed out that bad bearing and so far everything's great.

Been using the router for more things in the past year than ever before due to the faster/more efficient means of holding parts and also with the lifting of the Z I can get thicker parts in to machine (like faces of the newel posts).

I'm wondering if any other Buddy owners have done anything similar, or even better? To make their machines more versatile and accurate?

Simops
09-19-2015, 06:10 PM
Andrew, as you know I have a universal vac table now as well and Echo your comments. Mine doesn't have the vac power that you have but through careful plumbing and sealing I have quite reasonable vac power.......I could add another 2 HP Regen blower and it would then rock!

I haven't had to go down your path with the rails and bearings. I don't have the humidity issues that hear a lot about on this Forum so my deck stays flat.....I've been checking and can't really say it has warped in any way.....maybe a little??
My deck is also the plenum chamber and all I do is surface the bleeder board occasionally but rarely.
Having a Buddy does make for a harder vac setup initially with plumbing compared to our fixed table friends who have an advantage but it's worked out well....can't complain.

Cheers

Ajcoholic
09-19-2015, 09:16 PM
[QUOTE=Simops;183660] I don't have the humidity issues that hear a lot about on this Forum.../QUOTE]

This summer was typical - not too wet and pretty warm. Yet, humidity was in the 70% to 90% range. In the winter, its under 30%.

We have such a wide range you can see movement weekly, with the worst months being in the spring thaw, and when we start heating in the fall (soon).

Since my aluminum deck doesnt move any more I have forgotten all the hassles I used to have. Mainly on sheet goods.

Now I cut a lot more stuff I never bothered with, and the stuff I used to do a lot of (1/4" and 1/2" ply) with tabs etc just is so much easier without tabbing, and being held down all over, not just along the edges.

I still use clamps for heavier, larger solid wood machining. And for that the aluminum slotted deck is awesome.

Its funny, my mind is always working, and I have since (in my head) redesigned the rails and guides a few different ways. However, since my machine stays very clean (my DC is quite good) the bearings on the linear rails have stayed clean and no issues to date.

I just thought if anyone else had tried something similar I would like to see it.

Ajcoholic
05-20-2016, 09:05 PM
Just another update.

As it approaches the two year mark, the bearings and rails are working fine - no further issue. I just cleaned and lubricated my rails/rack and every so often I disconnect the drive to the table and make sure its still free and smooth.. it is.

With 13,000+ hits on this thread, I am just wondering if anyone other than Tom has tried to do something other than MDF for their Buddy table?

kruszert
05-21-2016, 09:11 AM
Just thought I would let you know that your thread is still useful to at least one new guy. I am new to CNC and purchased a Buddy (small size) about a year ago. I'm just a hobbyist not a business so I don't have many hours on the machine but am experiencing table flatness issues. The weather and humidity around here (Virginia) has been awful and the table is not staying flat. Your thread was perfect. I ordered the rails and bearings on eBay yesterday and will be making a table similar to yours. Also raising the gantry at the same time. I have the router attachment, not the fancy spindle, so I'm not sure if I will raise it 1.5" or 3" but it needs to go up.

Thanks for your help,
Reggie

Joe Porter
05-21-2016, 10:24 AM
Reggie, this earlier post describes some of the options for raising the Z height on your machine. The easiest and no cost options are to remove the nibs at the bottom of the router and turn the mounting plate 180 deg. But, as you gain Z height measured from the collet to the table, the mounting plate and spring holders get closer to the table. You just have to keep that in mind and not hit a clamp or the material, etc. http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?2219-Buddy-Z-height/page2 I hope this will be of some help....joe

Ajcoholic
05-21-2016, 11:04 AM
Reggie, this earlier post describes some of the options for raising the Z height on your machine. The easiest and no cost options are to remove the nibs at the bottom of the router and turn the mounting plate 180 deg. But, as you gain Z height measured from the collet to the table, the mounting plate and spring holders get closer to the table. You just have to keep that in mind and not hit a clamp or the material, etc. http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?2219-Buddy-Z-height/page2 I hope this will be of some help....joe

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?20402-Lifting-the-Buddy

That is the thread where I raised my gantry 3" by adding another section of extrusion. Based upon Brady's previous thread.

It's awesome. I do a lot of aggressive cutting. No issues with the lift at all.

And no changes to the router/spindle mount.

dana_swift
05-21-2016, 06:17 PM
That must be a brand new shopbot, there is not a spec of dust on it! My shopbot has not looked like that in something like ten years! Archaeologists of the future will excavate the sawdust my bot has in every crevice and wonder what sort of religion worshiped this thing and what role it had in the sacrifices :) D

Ajcoholic
05-21-2016, 10:39 PM
That must be a brand new shopbot, there is not a spec of dust on it! My shopbot has not looked like that in something like ten years! Archaeologists of the future will excavate the sawdust my bot has in every crevice and wonder what sort of religion worshiped this thing and what role it had in the sacrifices :) D

Lol Dana...

In my 6000 sq foot shop building, I use about 4000 now for the working area and the rest for storage of lumber and sheet stock.

On any given day, I would bet that if you swept the entire shop - including under machinery, around the dust collector, etc - you would get at the most a shovel or perhaps two full of shavings/dust. I run a clean shop. Ive been in operation now at my current location since April 2011, just over 5 years. People who come into the shop cant believe that we actually work there, lol. It just pays to have good dust collection, and most of the hand tools hooked up to working vacs (mainly Festool stuff). I have several Festool sanders, router, saw etc - and three of their vacuums. Well 4 actually as we just purchased the new on site vac in a systainer. Also have a few Mirka sanders which also hook up to the vacs.

It certainly cuts down on airborne dust, which means a lot less mess and less time needed to clean.

Bob Eustace
05-22-2016, 05:26 AM
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?20402-Lifting-the-Buddy

That is the thread where I raised my gantry 3" by adding another section of extrusion. Based upon Brady's previous thread.

It's awesome. I do a lot of aggressive cutting. No issues with the lift at all.

And no changes to the router/spindle mount.

Hi Andrew

We took Brady and your advice and raised it 3 inches. Thanks guys as that advice was absolutely spot on! Had to move the box to the centre and had to fit another cable gland for the indexer due to no spare holes. It did take longer than your half day??? We used 2 x2 x 1/4 alluminium angle on the sides and on the ends and its as strong as.

Thanks for your help guys!

Ajcoholic
05-23-2016, 09:38 PM
Hi Andrew

We took Brady and your advice and raised it 3 inches. Thanks guys as that advice was absolutely spot on! Had to move the box to the centre and had to fit another cable gland for the indexer due to no spare holes. It did take longer than your half day??? We used 2 x2 x 1/4 alluminium angle on the sides and on the ends and its as strong as.



Thanks for your help guys!


Bob, it is a great mod for sure. I like to place big table legs and newel posts on the machine now and do the work. No shortage of working height for me since the mod. I had enough slack in my cables, so I was OK.

kruszert
06-03-2016, 07:34 PM
Andrew,

I raised my gantry 3" and was surprised to see that my router still bottoms out on the collet with no bit installed. I was concerned at first that 3" may be too high but apparently there is a bunch of unused Z direction travel. Very easy job and the router access is much improved. Seems to me that ShopBot would do this from the beginning. Next is the bed but the linear bearings haven't arrived yet.

Reggie

Ajcoholic
02-12-2017, 04:12 PM
Just another update for those who are interested.

Linear bearings going strong after 2.5 years of steady use now. I do unhook the table drive often and run the table back and forth to check the smoothness. It's been no change to date.

Ajcoholic
02-04-2018, 09:55 PM
Hard to believe its been a another year since the last update!

This summer will mark 4 years since the new vac table, everything still works very well and the linear slides and bearings are still going strong. I have been tempted to try a few mods to the plenum to increase the airflow further, but its working so well I don’t want to chance messing things up.