European Camp ShopBot.

[mikejohn]

What chances are there of a European camp being organised for 2005?
How many European ShopBotters are there?
If you're out there, what's your opinion on the desire for a Camp?
If a camp could be organised, how does ShopBot feel about supporting it?
....Mike

[hespj]

Well it would certainly be good if someone knowledgable were there. My SB's on order & I know there's a steep learning curve ahead. I've never even seen one working.
Not sure if the word "Camp" will inspire in the UK though.

[gerald_d]

I visit Europe sometimes, and am still looking to see another live SB other than our own. Germany is my normal destination, but looking for an excuse to visit London to see my father-in-law. Yeah, the word "camp" doesn't inspire me either.

[mikejohn]

Hows about:
"A forgathering of like minded sawdust makers enjoined for a knowledge sharing time period, to articulate ideas and opinions of a ShopBot nature"?
With adjournment to the pub at regular intervals to enjoy warm English beer.

Mike

[gerald_d]

Warm English beer?? - I'd rather go and camp with the Americans where they drink cold Millers made by South Africans.

[Paul Amos (Unregistered Guest)]

Warm English beer?? thats for the anorak brigade, try some extra cold Guinness ( Nigerian Lager)

[mikejohn]

Having spent a lifetime wandering the world, one thing is certain. There is no bad beer!
Mind you, the aussies try their best!
Mike

[jsfrost]

I'll go with the Warm English Beer over a cold Miller, except after mowing the lawn on a hot day. Cold kills the taste.

And, so long as the purpose of the trip is "articulating ideas and opinions" it should be tax deductable. I think I could even get my wife excited over a camp in Europe. No offense intended, but I failed to get her excited over New Jersey.

[stickman]

Jim,

My wife would be dragging me to Europe. Her for the scenery. Me I would be there for the sawdust, the ideas and opinions. Oh, Oh and Oh the beer. I've never had warm beer. I'm a DARK beer FAN.

Jay

[bill.young]

Hey Mike,

A European camp (or whatever you decide to call it) is a great idea, though I'm not sure Bill P. and I can talk ShopBot into buying us tickets! We will however be glad to help with expenses and supplies...send us an email at campshopbot@shopbottools.com (mailto:campshopbot@shopbottools.com) and we'll see what we can work out.

Bill

[Pete Meacham (Unregistered Guest)]

I'll drink any light beer as long as it is Beechwood Aged in a 12oz longneck.

[mikejohn]

In just a few hours, we have established that:
1. Shopbotters all seem to like beer
2. Jim wants to excite his wife
3. There seems a desire for a European gathering.

I will throw up suggestions, the replies will modify these suggestions, then maybe we can organise something that all those who want to can take part.

My first suggestions are to hold the event over a weekend, in England, sometime in early spring.

Now add your suggestions, see how we go.
ShopBot have already contacted me, excited about the idea with offers of help.

If you have read any of my other posts, you will know that I wont even own a shopbot until early 2005, so I will be looking to receive information, rather than give it out. I do know AutoCad though!

Where I can help out is in sampling any beer you think you might want to try before hand, and report back.

Let me know what you want from such a weekend (maybe a long weekend, if people travel from afar) and I will liase with ShopBot to get it together.

The time between now and mid December is my busiest time of the year (I make rocking horses amongst other things) so any real organisation would have to wait a month.
I am quite willing, however, to pick up suggestions in this forum, and start to organise.
What manufacturers would you like to hear from (Routers/spindles,Bits,Dust extraction,materials)
What software?
Also if anyone is travelling from New Jersey (or other unexciting places) and want to know about places in England where you can excite the wife, let me know. I'm sure we could put a pack together to convince 'her indoors' about the necessity for the trip.
Er! um! Sorry, of course for you lady ShopBotters, we can supply information to convince the man in your life!
..Mike

[hespj]

" you will know that I wont even own a shopbot until early 2005, so I will be looking to receive information, rather than give it out. I do know AutoCad though!".......MJ

Snap.

And I guess we won't want the foregathering till we're up and running, at which time we won't interested in tool suppliers (routers, dust extraction etc), though we might be interested in router bits.

If we were still interested in tools, how about getting someone like Axminster to attend. Otherwise a bit supplier. Hefty discounts reqd.

By the way, I wasn't trying to be negative about the use of the word "camp" in the USA, but here in the UK it would suggest we were either in a tent, or excessively demonstrative homosexuals.

[gerald_d]

...or from the military where you get bugled to breakfast before sunrise.

[mikejohn]

John
I feel it might be as useful to have a weekend when very new to the game, hopfuly drawing on the knowledge of some more experienced shopbotters, with perhaps a follow up say a year later.
No doubt, like many of us, you have scoured this forum, gleaning what you can. I'm thinking that face-to-face sessions may well be equally useful.
Shopbot our now in touch, and are offering all assistance.
I am going to keep a detailed 'diary' of my purchase, with particular attention to the shipping and customs at our end. This may be something people contemplating a purchase will be keen to know.
Bill, who looks after camps generally, is offering his support. If we can lean on past camps to formulate our plans, with maybe a particular European twist, then I feel it will be a great time.
If over the coming days, there appears solid support, then we can start mapping out some more firm plans.
And if we must stick to 'camp' we can always invite Julian Clary along

Mike

[hespj]

I think the diary is a good idea. I would certainly have appreciated such info getting this far, and hopefully a camp will get me to a higher level. Let's face it, there's suprisingly little info on the SB website about anything, let alone importing into the UK. All the info is here in the forums, which by their nature aren't laid out in an efficient way.

For the record (or diary), I found the best way to pay was via my bank via TIPANET. This charged me £8, and gave an exchange rate of 1.8353 when XE.com ( http://www.xe.com/ucc/ ) and the newpapers were showing circa 1.84.

As for import duty etc, I have been told:
Woodworking Machinery : Tariff No 84659990000 = 2.7%
Parts for Woodworking Machinery : Tariff No 8466922000 = 1.2%

I hope if SB get the opportunity they mark the cartons "Machinery Parts", and that's actually what they are. But it's up to the authorities.

The other nagging doubt is CE marks. I don't know if you followed the recent thread where the Spanish authorities picked up on the fact that an imported machine didn't have CE marks. I think in the end they were happy to write down the CE marks on the motors. As long as there were numbers for their boxes. I seem to remember that Gerald, as always, had a slightly different angle on this........ :-)

I suppose we'd hold the camp somewhere convenient to us Brits and Heathrow? I don't know where you are Mike, but I'm in Somerset. I think Julian Clary is in Manchester.

John

[mikejohn]

John
You are so right about the all the information being in the Forum, but no collation.
I have, believe it or not, started trying to catalogue the technical bits of the Forum.
No easy tasks, as related bits appear in unusual places.
I am trying to do it by 'theme'. I'm working on cutting speeds first. When I get something useful, I'll let you know.
Of course, this is closely related to bit type, my next goal!
I admit I'm doing this mainly for myself, but if others are interested, maybe I can present something at the 'gathering'.
As for CE markings (I make toys, so I know what they mean!!!!!!!), there was a suggestion that ShopBot were looking into it.
As for the location of the 'gathering', close to a Motorway within a couple of hours of London I guess.
For any of our friends coming from the colonies, somewhere near Stratford-upon-Avon or Stonehenge, I guess.

And close to a couple of good pubs.
.....Mike

[gerald_d]

Slough would be okay - I like Mars bars


Mr Hesp, Sir, how dare you intimate that I might resort to nefarious methods relating to Her Royal Majesty's Custom's Service?

[billp]

Sorry I'm late into this discussion, but I have been away for a week. I think the European gathering is a great idea, and as Bill Y. has mentioned above we'll do as much as possible to make it happen.
I would make one immediate suggestion. Give yourselves enough time....It takes MUCH more time than many people imagine to contact everyone, and synchronize scheduling. We are already working out the details for the 2005 Jamboree and there has been correspondence to deal with for months in advance.
Time gives you the chance to FIND as many people as possible, and also get a few things prepared in advance. Lining up resource people, and gathering trade materials requires long lead times with some companies.
That being said you have some advantages for such a gathering. Generally speaking the distances you would have to travel ( except for Gerald...) will be less than may of our Campers DRIVE back here( a few cases of 2,000 miles to get to a Camp that I know of..).
If people are travelling considerable distances a two day session would make the most sense,as it makes the trip even more worthwhile.
Also I think this is a great opportunity to network the resources of a very diversified group.
It will certainly be a great chance to flatten the learning curve.
Feel free to pick our brains as to getting things off the ground, and underway. Hopefully we can figure a way to get over for the event..

[mikejohn]

Bill
Thanks for your input.
I agree about giving plenty of time. Certainly 6 months from now.
I have asked above if you or Bill have a draft plan arrived at from other camps, I would love to have it.
I dont have any idea what sales have been made throughout Europe, but if an owner lives at the outer reaches of this continent, they to would have some traveling to do.
Certainly a two day gathering. I was wondering about a long weekend if some sort of training might also be organised.
Gerald. Don't you get BBC's "The Office", based in Slough,down there?
.....Mike

[gerald_d]

We get "The Office" from time to time, and I do recognize the few opening street scenes. My step-mother-in-law is a consultant to Mars and I have spent time there. As well as in Torbay, Stratford, Redditch, Pontypridd and Shrewsbury.

[slendon]

Hi,

Just logged on for the first time in a while, noting the earlier posts.....If you wanted to "camp" in the Canaries (part of Europe)

I can tick every box mentioned so far:

1. Excite the wife by offering exotic beaches and winter sun.

2. New Alpha machine installed and working

3. Plenty of accomodation

4. Joint owner of local Bar (Dark Beer, Fizzy Beer and warm Beer)

5. Have Gay son that lives in London

8. Been through the European import routines

7. Love to network with other Botters.

Still if you must have the camp in the murky english winter... I might still want to come.

Steve Lendon

PS Like Mars Bars too

[jamesgilliam]

ShopBot Europe sounds like a great idea to me, but why limit it to one location? I have had a few thoughts on it that I would like to share.

1. First find out how many ShopBots are located in Europe and contact the owners to see if they would host a day or two in their shop. This way we could possibly spend a week to ten days there.

2. Contact owners here to see how many would be interested in making the trip.

3. Contact a travel agent to see about putting together a "tour" based on the locations of the willing owners in Europe. They would be able to put together a package for a larger group and be able to make flight, ground transportation, lodging and meal arangements at a reduced cost to each one. The more going the cheaper the cost to all involved. Forty people going is cheaper for each one in a group than trying to do it on your own.(Having done this twice for our Church Choir I know this to be true.) All we would need to do then is pick out a city to start from here for the group.

4. We could also have the travel agent build into the trip a few points of interest for the ones not interested only in talking shop the whole time. Alot of wifes are not into machine talk, although my Jo-Anne, for those who know her can tell you, is very interested in it. (especially now since she has learned to do bit changes and is now running it also)

Now for the beer drinkers I have to say this. On the last two trips with the tour company, the bus drivers we had kept cold beer stocked in the cooler on the bus.

James Gilliam

[mikejohn]

My last couple of posts seem to have appeared, then dissapeared.
Nothing contentious in them. Odd!
To sumarise those posts briefly. The Canaries sound great for a second camp in the winter. The possibilty of a rolling 'camp is a good idea. I have already contacted a tour organiser to start thrashing out the basics.
Lets hope this post stays

....Mike

[slendon]

Mike and All,

If the interest was there I'd be really happy to work on organising a "Holiday Camp" over here (Lanzarote, Canary Islands)...let's see how the interest builds.

Steve

[dvanr]

Seems the word "camp" doesn't inspire everyone. Maybe it shouldn't be "camp" but Shopbot C.A.M.P
Computer Aided Manufacturing for...(your suggestion here) people, pioneers, procrastinators, philistines, perfectionists

Mike John , you didn't drink the beer from the tap marked VB did you?
Should always let a friendly Aussie buy you a beer.

Anyone have an idea as to how many Aussie botters there are?

DvanR

[gerald_d]

Priscilla, the famous ozzie? Bet that even (s)he plays better rugby than our bunch at the moment.

[mikejohn]

Just to show I haven't been idle!
Under ATOL rules, a group booking for the flight from USA to UK has to be done from the USA end.
The tour company I am talking to can handle everything else, from picking up from the airport, to returning to the airport.
Once we start having a better idea of what our plans are, I can get some idea of cost.
Dick, from Swan to Castlemain, I managed to get it all down!
Gerald, I think it's touch and go between your mob and the Aussies who are the better bunch
..Mike

[hespj]

Whilst I am looking forward to ShopBots renowned support after I recieve my ShopBot, I wonder why they aren't more forthcoming with info before I recieve it.

No I havn't asked them yet, but what are the dimensions of the crate being shipped to me? I am collecting it from Bristol and need a suitable vehicle. How heavy is it?

Of course I'll ask, but if I were shipping something to somebody and they needed to collect it, I'd naturally tell them everything I could to help.

This is the third time in two years I've approached ShopBot with serious intention to buy. This time it's going ahead (as far as I know, they havn't told me that they've recieved my funds!), the previous two times small things got in the way. Even so, I probably would have purchesed two years ago if info was more forthcoming.

Another example. First time I approached them I neede the machine in a hurry, so aked for air freight charges. Second time I was in no hurry so asked for shipping by sea. Both times I got appropriate quotes, and quickly, but why not give quotes for sea and air and let me choose?

We've already touched on the fact that the website is sparse on info, and Mike in a fit of enthusiasm is compiling his own database.

Why such good after sales info, including Camps, but such reticence pre sales?

John

[mikejohn]

John
I am in agreement with you about shipping charges, but there is a little bit about weight
try here (http://www.shopbottools.com/byb_shipping.htm)
......Mike

[hespj]

Thanks Mike. I do recognise that page, but it is quite hidden. I still don't know what size van to use. I'll email and also ask if they recieved my money.

John Hesp

[slendon]

Hi John,

I ended up getting my bot directly from the shippers because they didn't have a van big enough, I went with a VW LT35 and despite having the help of 4 others failed to get the shipping crate into the van...it is big and heavy. I was lucky and hailed a passing lorry with a hiab type crane and he picked it up with his crane and delivered for me. Your only real chance without a crane, and an open backed lorry, is to open the crate and hand load each sub assembly into a long wheel base transit size van. This is very do-able but take at least one battery screwdriver to undo all the screws in the crate. Two people are enough to lift any single assembly. Good Luck

Steve

[hespj]

Thanks Steve. I don't want to transport it on an open backed lorry - it tends to rain in England, and I'll have to assume the shipping crate isn't waterproof.
I have a friend with a 3.55m long space in his van which is probably similar to an LT35. I think I'll have to wait and to talk to the shippers to see what chance there is of loading it into this van. I guess I won't know who they are till it arrives.

John

[gerald_d]

John, you are entitled to the "Bill of Lading" if goods have already been sea-freighted to you. (For air-freight, it will be called the Air Waybill). The holder of the "B.O.L." is the only person who can claim receipt of the goods. Ask ShopBot for the Bill of Lading, and on there will be stated the mass and dimensions of the shipment.

Some freight agents have a nasty habit of hiding this BOL from you, and getting their pals (freight agents/forwarders/clearers on your end)to sign on your behalf and then billing you for all sorts of vague services. (It depends on whether you have contracted SB to supply FOB, CIF or to your door.)

[mikejohn]

Gerald
I got stung a year ago shipping a crate of personal effects back from Thailand to the UK.
All the extras came to more than the cost of freighting.
I suggest that John knows when the shipment arrives, picks it up soonest to avoid storage charges, asks the handling agents in the UK what (if any) assistance there is for loading.
I did manage to get my crate (2m x 1m x 1.5m) fork lifted onto my trailer for 'free'.
When my ShopBot arrives, I intend to have every possibility covered. Bet you a couple of Rand I forget something vital.

...Mike

[gerald_d]

The major extra is of course the Value Added Tax.

Don't wait until the shipment arrives - start working as soon as you have the BOL. Take the BOL and the ShopBot invoice to your customs officer and ask them what must be done. Over here we need the customs people to put a red stamp "CLEARED" on the BOL and only then will the ship agents hand you the goods. To get the customs to say "cleared" they need to be convinced:
1. the goods are legal to CE regulations
2. import duty (if applicable) has been paid
3. VAT has been paid.
And they can do all this before actually sighting the goods.

[mikejohn]

I think a C88(SAD) form is needed.
You can get this from your local UK customs office.
Then you don't need an agent for customs clearance.
.......Mike

[gerald_d]

Here in South Africa they make a simple distinction. For the importation of personal/domestic/household effects, no agent is required. However, if it is for a company, particularly one that is customs/tax registered in its own right, then an agent must be used. That is why I sometimes walk through the customs process myself, pleading poverty or hobby purposes. Yeah, some may call this bribery....

A link (http://www.hmce.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel= pageImport_InfoGuides&propertyType=document&id=HMC E_CL_001193) to your customs.

[mikejohn]

Definately, in the Europe you can import on your own behalf using the said C88.
Mind you, its a bit of a hassle finding out how to fill it in the first time you do it.

Anyone in the UK, go here (http://www.hmce.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel= pageImport_Home).
......mike

[hespj]

Thanks, the last six posts have been very useful. Even links for me to follow. You're both most helpful. Do either of you like filling in forms.........

[gerald_d]

Either we get to "like" filling in forms, or we have to pay freight agents a huge premium - they feed off our dislike for forms and bureaucracy.

Anyway.....isn't this thread supposed to be about pansies in Europe?

[garbob]

When I purchased my 48 by 96 machine I was going to have Shopbot deliver it and found out what the charges were and looked into arranging to have it picked up through a local shipping company who made all of the arrangements with pickup in North Carolina at Shopbots shipping bay, delivery to the US/Canada border, custom clearance and delivery to my shop. If I remember correctly the price was about 40% of what Shpbot quoted me and there were no surprizes except that the machine arrived a lot earlier than I had expected.

I would definitely do this again as I had a finite cost of the machine at the time of purchase including all shipping and import duties/charges.

Gary

[mikejohn]

Gerald
It's interesting how threads wander.

It looks like late spring (May) or early Autumn (September) for the European ShopBot tour.
Any more takers?
.....Mike

[mikejohn]

Anyone thinking of shipping from USA themselves look here (http://www.freight-calculator.com/worldocr.asp)
I estimated 130 miles from Durham to Charlotte. Can anyone confirm this?
I got a quote for shipping a Bench Top from Charlotte to London (UK) for $571.84, doing my own custom clearance (C88), and pick up. Note however that included in the quote is $225 for the pick-up from Durham! Almost the same transporting from Charlotte to London as it is to go Durham to Charlotte

....Mike

[beacon14]

my road atlas says 139 miles

[mikejohn]

Thanks Dave
That is well within the quoted mileage price.
Still, maybe I'll come over, build my own crate (save $350), hire a truck and transport it myself.

I'm looking for an excuse to travel to ShopBot
.....Mike

[hespj]

Pick mine up too will you Mike?

John

[mikejohn]

John
2 sent together, a total of $900

When is yours ready for delivery?
.....Mike

[Tony Collett (Unregistered Guest)]

Mike

was that 2 prt 96's or 2 Bench Top's

Tony

[mikejohn]

Tony,
To be honest, I'm estimating the crate sizes from the ShopBot Size. The 96 may be shipped with the same cubic capacity of the ready built Benchtop. With the Benchtop, you ship a lot of air!
We need to know the cubic footage of the crates, then we can get an accurate estimate.
Weight doesn't seem to be a problem.
If anyone knows the total cubic footage (or meters
) of a 96, then it's easy to get a quote.
Quite definitely, if a number of people were buying (and shipping) at the same time, substantial savings could be made.
That's why we need a European gathering, to solve these problems!
......Mike

[hespj]

Mike, I was half joking, but $900 sounds good. I've already paid SB $861 (SB to Bristol). Ouch!!!

I've been told "3.15x.69x.61 meters; 127x27x24 inches" and from the page you linked to a few posts back - 400lbs. Plus the weight of an indexer which can't be much.

Also "The machine should ship around 12-10-04 or 12-17-04."

[shiela@eircom.net]

To Mike John...
Will you please also e-mail your phone no.to
shiela@eircom.net (mailto:shiela@eircom.net) ? We are not-so-distant
neighbours if you disregard the water.
John Shiel.

[mikejohn]

It is proposed that the European 'camp' will take place in the UK over a long weekend 16th, 17th and 18th September 2005.
Visitors proposing to come from America have asked that it be low season. There is not suffucient time to organise this for the spring, so the autumn (fall) it is.
If a significant number of visitors wish to attend from outside Europe then a mini coach tour of near Europe will take place from Monday 19th to Friday 23rd September. Saturday 24 will wind up the extended camp,in the UK, but will be mainly a social occasion.
If families are attending, then activities will be arranged for them.
We are going to need to know the level of interest, both locally and from afar, so if you can give us a hint that you might attend, and in what role, we would appreciate it.
For most Europeans, this is going to be the first time to meet like minded people. (and maybe we can show the yanks a thing or two
)
Updates will follow regularly, look out for them.
......Mike

[bobstand]

Mike, I have been watching your plans develop for several months here on the forum and have become very intrigued with the concept of attending. I mentioned the dates to my wife today and of course she said “why not?” Therefore, I would like to add my name as another possibility of a “Yank” attending to contribute what I can and also to learn from the masters across the pond. Please let me know what I can do to help from this end.

[mikejohn]

Bob
We'll be pleased to see you both if you can make it.
I would be interested to hear from your wife the sort of thing she would like to see and do whilst she's here. That goes for all other family members who might be coming with any of you ShopBotters.
.........Mike

[hespj]

Mike, I'll certainly try to be there. Have you any idea where yet?

John

[mikejohn]

John
We're on the move shortly, within the next couple of month. As soon as I have the exact location, Ill let you know. Southern counties somewhere

Glad you will be coming.
........Mike

[fleinbach]

I'm interested and will keep tabs on this thread. I know my wife is ready for another visit to England. I don't generally make plans that far in advance in fact I probably will make a last minute decision. Some day I intend to do something about that but I guess that will be at the last minute too. At least for know I look forward to it.

[gerald_d]

The wife and I have been talking of a September holiday visit to the Adriatic/Dalmatia area for quite a while already. And there was a thought of visiting her father near London for a few days.....

[mikejohn]

Frank and Gerald
You will both be very welcome at the gathering. Input from both of you in this forum is always welcome (if not always accepted universally
) so we can only look forward to hearing your opinions face to face.
I doubt if we Europeans can teach you much about the ShopBot, but maybe fresh ideas may develop from projects with a European outlook.
The mini-tour of Europe will probably not include Slough.

........Mike

[gerald_d]

[mikejohn]

Hi! folks
Just to confirm the dates for the European 'camp'.
It will definately be the 16th 17th and 18th of September 2005.
I am looking at turning it into a mini- Jamboree if we can, for three reasons.
Most of us here have not had the opportunity to attend a camp and are hungry for a wide spread of information.
The distances some people are proposing to travel are very big, so we want to ensure their trip is worthwhile.
We expect many wannabees, so I guess we need to promote the whole CNC idea.

As details are refined, I will post more details.

Any hint that you might attend would be appreciated, warm beer and fish and chips take some long term preparation.
..........Mike

[fleinbach]

Mike

I am planning on coming. Could you have some ice shipped in or should I bring my own. I never could drink warm beer. In fact I almost never drink beer period.

[mikejohn]

Frank
Thats good to hear.
I have to admit that the pubs do now serve mostly cooled beers. It's just the few who like it straight from the old wooden casks!
We will serve afternoon tea as well

..........Mike

[shiela@eircom.net]

Mike,
Now that there is a definite date, I would also like to attend.Have you any idea on general location? I will be making some calls in the south-west in mid-April.I am about seventy miles west of Fishguard. John Shiel

[mikejohn]

John
At the moment it looks like Dorset, about 1 hour from Bristol.
I should have the exact location in about a month.
Pleased to know your joining the growing band who want to attend.
..........Mike

[weslambe]

It's only $594.00 round trip from Atlanta to London!

Hmm.

[gerald_d]

Mike, what is the approx driving time from Heathrow to Dorset - 2-3 hours? (For the "foreigners", that's driving on the left, on narrow roads, with cars that have the steering wheel on the right and mostly manual gearchanges - just like home, except for the narrow roads)

[mikejohn]

Gerald
I hour along the motorway (freeway?), 30 minutes along dual carriageway (2 lanes in each direction) 30 minutes through beautiful countryside.
If people are landing at Heathrow on the same day, we will organise something for the transport from London to the 'camp'.
Dorset is one of the areas of rural beauty, 'chocolate box, scenery, bucolic villages.
No Hilton hotels, more ancient coaching inns.
They do have on-suite bathrooms though!
I am finalising my move to my new workshop in a couple of weeks. When that's done I can start posting hard facts.

3476

..........Mike

[gerald_d]

"No Hilton hotels, more ancient coaching inns."...Like Fawlty Towers?




3477
3478

3479
3480

3481
3482

[gerald_d]

For those wondering what the above photos are about, they are of the Dorset area. The third pic shows Mike's workshop up on the hill - he still has to do a few small renovations. The last two pics are the typical accommodation establishments - Bed & Breakfast and Basil Fawlty's place.


Show the above pics to your spouses, and more links like this (http://www.imagesofdorset.org.uk/), and entice them over to England for a little get-away. I am sure you can arrange a tax break for "Training".

[mikejohn]

Gerald was slightly in error about my new workshop.
This is the actual picture.

3483
Just the roof trusses and wall cladding, and I will be up and running.
Actually just across the county border in Wiltshire!
Get the tax break and enjoy that European trip you've always been promising yourselves. We guarantee a great time, (but we don't guarantee the weather).
.............Mike

[fleinbach]

In Maryland we can guarantee the weather. No matter what the forcast it is guaranteed to change!

[jsfrost]

Good Job Gerald, Wife liked the pictures.

Mike,
The solid rock table supports look a little high.

[mikejohn]

Jim
I'm following Geralds table plan to the letter.
Glad your wife liked the pictures of my home area.
Thomas Hardy country, for those with a literature bent (Far from the madding crowd, Return of the native, Mayor of Casterbridge, etc.)
..............Mike

[gerald_d]

"Return of the Native"....my forefathers (father's side) are from that neck of the woods, it's time for me to return.

Can we have a show of hands again on who might be there? I want to be careful who I irritate here at the Forum over the next few months.

[Geralds Mother In Law (Unregistered Guest)]

I'll be there dear.

[bleeth]

Mike-Posting here to get this on thread.
You asked what possible attendees might want.For me, I would like to meet and greet some fellow botters, learn about some new ways to do old things and new things to do. I don't really mind if some of the information being presented were also available in Durham's Jamboree or another camp as exclusivity of presentation is less important to me than a sharing of knowledge. I would also like to see more of Dorset and eat big greasy breakfasts for a whole week.

Dave

(PS-you have mail)

[mikejohn]

This post is in response to post made in a hijacked thread here (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=29&post=22304#POST22304)
I have heard from Bill about this matter.
ShopBot do have guidelines, and offer advice, but it is all positive, no 'can't does'. There is 1 must do about safety. The content of the programme is up to the organisers. It may well be that the format for this first gathering falls somewhere between a 'camp' and a 'jamboree'. With ShopBot headquarters beeing so far away it is not possible to have any where near the facilities available to the jamboree.
We should, however, be in a great position for sharing ideas if those telling me they wish to attend are able to make it.
Those who can, do come along. Find out what English humour is all about!
Think of it as seeing a ShopBot from a different angle. After all, Geralds is upside-down

..........Mike

16th,17th and 18th September 2005 European camp

[mikejohn]

I have replied here (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=312&post=0#POST0)
where it belongs.
Sorry for the thread drift
..........Mike
16th, 17th and 18th September 2005 European camp

[mikejohn]

I am now receiving regular enquiries about the Great European ShopBot Event.
I hope by the middle of May to be able to start giving a great deal more firm information, other than the date 16th 17th 18th September 2005.

If you are interested, drop me an email, I will add you to the prospective list.

I hope to see you there
..............Mike

[hespj]

Following the demise of the planned ShopBot EuroCamp a few of us are getting together at my workshop in Bossington, Somerset, England on the 16th and/or 17th of September. Brian Moran from Vectric will be giving a demo of Vcarve Wizard.

My workshop is a rather primitive and small 500 year old barn, so I only want to have 6 or 7 people there. There's room for a couple more people if anybody's interested. My workshop has a Alpha96 with indexer and stunning view.

John

[gerald_d]

Will be there about midday on the 16th if that's convenient. Leaving the next day. Looking forward to it!

[bleeth]

John: Although work and timing conflicts prevent me from joining you, Gerald, et al, I would hope to see you another time when I cross the pond to visit my wifes family in Lincoln as usually I only spend a few days with them and then take hols on the train pass.

On a small digresssion; Looking forward to seeing all of you who attend the Artcam group in Orlando.


Dave

[hespj]

Dave, please look in some other time. That goes for anybody else too.

John

[trevor@kingsleycottage.eclipse.co.uk]

john, my name is trevor baker, and i am looking to buy in the next month, not sure if the get together is still happening/full up etc, but very interested in getting your opinion on things.Based in Midhurst, west sussex

regards,

[hespj]

Trevor, I think Gerald's coming on the 16th and leaving the next day. Gerald has invited Brian Moran to demo Vcarve Wizard which should be good. I havn't heard from the others. Please feel free to join us.

I'll be emailing those interested with directions in a day or two.

John

[gerald_d]

Hi John, we have actually booked 2 nights at the Rose Bank on your High Street, so we are only leaving Porlock on the 18th. Our program is undecided as we will be in holiday mode, but my wife understands that the afternoon/evening of the 16th has "camping" as a priority.

Looking forward to being there!

[bob_lofthouse]

John,

U have mail...

[stebaker]

Would any one in the UK with a bot be interested in cutting me some panels. These will be cut from 8x4 MDF sheets and I will provide the files. If any one is interested please e-mail me and I will provide more detials so they can give me a price. Stephen

[trevor@wharf.eclipse.co.uk]

john

unfortunately i am now unable to make it, ( wife insists on a social life away from the workshop...!?) but would appreciate having a chat to go over a few points - would this be possible? or any other uk owner?

regards trevor baker
01730 812822

[bob_lofthouse]

Stephen you have mail...

[hespj]

Thank you everybody who visited my workshop over the last couple of days. I hope the experts got as much out of it as us beginners, but the fact is that everybody was an expert in their own field, and was able to contribute considerably and generously.

As well as coming away more knowledgable, I've come away very inspired, and am hoping that we can carry on being of help to each other.

I would normally be the last person to put myself forward for hosting something like this, and it's unfortunate that Mike John was unable to do it - I'm sure he would have been able to pull off something more professional, but to any body thinking of hosting or attending a camp I say "do it", the rewards are enormous.

Thanks again guys,
John

[benchmark]

Many thanks to John and Helen for their hospitality and hosting the first Shopbot camp in the UK.

I was great to meet the other Shopbotters and put a face to names on the forum. I am sure we all gained some knowledge or inspiration over the two days, but most of all we have gained new friends.

I look forward to many more.

Thanks again to Helen & John

Regards

Paul Amos

[bob_lofthouse]

John,

Thank you for hosting the getogether...

I learnt so much in the first 15mins alone...

I'm looking forward to playing with Vcarve Wizard next week...

Please give my love to Helen and Jack...

Once again many thanx... Rob

[gerald_d]

John & Helen (and junior of 10 months), you provided a great facility for a most informative and inspiring 2 days. The carrot cake was sublime! Thanks for all the effort that you deny having put in.

For the curious folk across the Atlantic, the following attended:
John Hesp (host, with wife, child and brother in close support), John Shiels, Robert Lofthouse, Paul Amos, Les Newell, Brian Moran, John McKenzie, myself.

And for the boat guys.......got to see the Southampton boat show today too!

[Brian Moran]

I too would like to add my thanks to John and Helen for an extremely enjoyable day. The setting was stunning and the hospitality was fantastic. I'm not sure how to add an image but I'll give it a go ...
3484 which hopefully shows left to right.. Tony McKenzie, Paul Amos, Robert Lofthouse, Gerald Dorrington, John Shiel and our host John Hesp. The venue was John's 500 year old barn workshop which was really nice, but am I alone in wondering how cold it is in winter John?

[hespj]

Wonder no more Brian, I can assure you that it's freezing. It's pretty nippy in September too isn't it?

If they're open, there's always a breeze blowing in one doorway and out the other. It's a winnowing floor - a 16th century dust extraction system for blowing away the chaff from the grain. Now it blows the dust away from the ShopBot.

Brian's photo shows Vcarve Wizard - http://www.vectric.com - carving a design, finished article here:


3485







Also on the software front, Les Newell showed us Sheetcam - http://www.sheetcam.com/ - which might be of interest to some. It's basically low cost 2.5D toolpath software with tabbing. It might have other interesting features too, I havn't had time to explore it yet. Les wrote a ShopBot post before visiting and we tried this out succesfully.

John

[john_shiel]

Thank you John and Helen for two very enjoyable and informative days. Good food,good company, excellent demonstrations, sound advice from Paul,with rumbles of assent from Gerald.We had some good exchanges of ideas and projects and the benefits will be long-term.I had value for my trip by 10 am. on the first morning. Well done,John. Kind Regards . John Shiel

[gerald_d]

Hi All

Only got back home this morning....


3486

3487

3488

3489

[mikejohn]

You didn't need to walk home!
Welcome back.
The Forum has noticed your absence.
They do say absence makes the heart grow fonder, but I wonder

.........Mike

[gerald_d]

I get to my office this morning and find a spindle lying on my desk......

[mikejohn]

Benedict Arnold!

[billp]

There are now some more/better pictures of what went on at the first European Camp posted on the Flickr camp page - http://www.flickr.com/photos/campshopbot/

[gerald_d]

Pic 3 - skid marks left by a certain Volvo?
(Actually, the bridge is for the pedestrians, while the cars have to drive through the water, no?)

Hey Bill, does this mean that the Euro Camp now enjoys "official" status and that John Hesp gets a banner for his barn? (It might help to keep the draft out).

[mikejohn]

I was wondering, does the earths gravitational spin alter when Gerald travels from the southern to the northern hemisphere?
.................Mike

[gerald_d]

you're talking out of your coriolis! grrrr.....

Speaking from experience, are'nt you?

[billp]

Gerald,
I think the Euro Camp is certainly something we would like to see on the regular "official" schedule, but hopefully in a setting where we can have an open invitation to ALL who'd like to attend, rather than being limited to a specific number of potential openings...
With this in mind perhaps some of the people who DID attend the first one will consider offering their facility for the next one..

[bob_lofthouse]

Hi Bill and All....

We have no problem at all Hosting an event....

The question would be when?

[billp]

Robert,
This is probably a good time to start soliciting feedback from those in your area as to the best time slot for the Camp. It does take quite a bit of time to get everyone to respond, and obviously the most important factor here is to do so with as little infringement as possible on the resources, and schedule of the host and their business.
Over here we tend to work around the weather and school schedules, as both can be limiting factors when making travel plans for some people. But obviously we tend to have more extremes in our weather on a regional basis.
John did a very good job of hosting this year's Camp on such short notice, and I think if you use his initial group of "Euro Campers" as a starting point you should be able to expand on the concept somewhat, particularly with a "lead time" of months in advance.
We'll be glad to help organize things for you once a plan is established, and I suspect that more than a few people would like to fly over from the colonies to just SEE facilities such as John's.
Let us know how we can make this work for you...

[gerald_d]

Bill, I think you are creating a wrong impression with the words "hopefully in a setting where we can have an open invitation to ALL who'd like to attend, rather than being limited to a specific number of potential openings...". NOBODY was told that there is not enough space for them. In fact, Robert Lofthouse already offered his unlimited venue up north on 11 July, but the final headcount made John's place the right fit. (A big batch of posts with invites and pictures have been deleted from this thread). Please don't make it sound like the door was locked - as we can attest, John's doors can't even close properly, never mind be locked!


Robert, can you think of an exhibition/expo covering SB-type stuff in the UK? Maybe pick a date around that?

[rhfurniture]

Woodmex October 06 NEC Birmingham.
http://www.wmsa.org.uk/Woodmex.php

[bob_lofthouse]

Well we might have started something now.

My gut feelings at present are that if I'm going to host a camp It doesn't matter to me if there are 5 people or 50 people.

I know from my own experience how much I learnt by attending John's camp and because of that in my opinion I considered it a great success.

Everyone knows and can see from the "frappr map site" how few botters there are in Europe compared to the states. So this might indicate that smaller camps and get togethers are appropriate rather than the USA style camps.

However, if botters did travel over from the states (which is not cheap) the Europeans (Gerald is included as an honorary European) would certainly benefit greatly.

I think if we were going to go for a large USA style camp then it would be best to hold it nearer the summer and if we were going to hold a smaller European style camp then I would say February.

As I have said these are just my initial thoughts

[hespj]

Yes, everybody was welcome to my humble barn. Because it is small, chaotic, and draughty (apparantly) I did say that numbers would be limited in the unlikely event of a rush on tickets*. I say "unlikely" because it seemed to me then, and seems to me now, that nobody is going to spend all year standing beside a ShopBot then spend their vacation and good money to stand by another ShopBot 3000 miles away. And there just aren't enough UK Shopbots to make a large gathering (I'd be interested to know how many).

It seems to me it's only ever going to work as a small event such as we had, or a very large event with all the bells and whistles in order to drag the needed people and expertise across the Atlantic. I think this would need a large input (including financial) from ShopBot.

If anybody is disappointed at the scale of the meeting we had at Bossington, we who attended weren't. In fact, since then, because of my dislike of the word "camp" I've thought of it as the "ShopBot EuroConference". I propose we call it this in future so that it's excellence is recognised.

John

*On the afternoon of the second day there were just two of us left messing about. There was no need to limit numbers.

[marshawk]

Draughts are OK as long as the foam is no more than an inch...

I would like to attend, but economics will be a big factor. I was thinking that a charter flight would be one idea to keep costs down for Stateside 'botters who wanted to go, but the savings would probably be cancelled by flights connecting to the charter.

One consideration is that, since we would be going to a seminar pertaining to our work, we could probably write off at least some of the expenses on our taxes.

Did I mention draughts?