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jharrison@precast.com
05-19-1999, 01:11 AM
I am interested in hearing from folks who have started a new business with their ShopBots. I am considering starting one but am not sure that I'll have the market to pay off the initial expense in a reasonable amount of time. My pappa always said... "son, never work for somebody else" and I've always dreamed of owning my own business.

FWIW I don't have any problems with the technical side of manufacturing, thats what I do for a living now (mechanical engineer working in production management.) I'm more concerned with the market for ShopBot made items.

Any tips from some of you that have done it? Is it worth it- can I support my wife and family?

Thanks!

Joa

arthur_ross
05-19-1999, 11:54 AM
Joa-

There are lots of people making a living doing machine carved signs for businesses. A carved 4 by 4 foot sign, painted and guilded (gold leaf) can go for upwards of $2000.00. You do need to have design skills, and the software to generate the fancy 3D cutting effects that buyers want (ScanVec EnRoute or CADlink EngraveLab, about $2500.00). Check out SignCraft magazine for some great examples, or the Precision Board (Coastal Enterprises) Web Site for various info about carving and painting.

If you don't have some artistic ability or leanings, don't force yourself into this profession. I'm an engineer, I design and build signmaking machinery ( http://www.signsontap.com ), but I know that I don't have the same raw artistic "vision" or fine arts training that drives signmakers

Good Luck!
Arthur Ross
Deltamation Inc.

bruce_clark
05-20-1999, 12:53 AM
Arthur,

Amen. I know a lot of people who got into the
sign business thinking that they could compete
because "the software does all that stuff". Well,
thats great until the guy next door get the same
software then you no longer have _ANY_ competetive
advantage over your competition. Matter of fact,
usually the guy next door is a former employee.

Then the only advantage you can offer from the guy
next store is price, unless you can do something
he cannot offer. Usually this is where the
talent issue comes up. Competing on price is not
the situation you want to be in.

I firmly believe that to truely be successful, you
need talent. That is why I don't make a living
off of routed signs or vinyl graphics. My machine
and my "sign" business is strictly because the
business that I am in requires someone to be able
to make signs quickly and cheaply. I have
had some formal training in art at college, but I
don't fool myself into thinking I have any talent.

Now, I have enough talent to do a good job, get
things done in a timely manner, and fix or redo
broken/faded/out dated signs, but that is it.

When my equiptment is not doing that, I like to
play with my router and make things that I think
up. Oh, yea, when I am not playing with my
router, I am busy programming. (hi Ted :^)

I am not trying to discourate you, but make this
is something you truely _FEEL_ you can do day in
and day out. Also note, 80% of ALL new businesses
fail. A sucessful business is 50% talent and 50%
business skills.

I wish you luck. Oh, buy a ShopBot anyways. They
are REALLY fun to play with because you can make
REALLY neat things easily and quickly.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)

llarson@softdisk.com
05-20-1999, 08:05 AM
Well said by each of you! If you want to understand a little more clearly the day in day out challenges and rewards of the sign buisness check out this bulletin board;http://www.letterhead.com and it's discussion forum.

Larry Larson
Shreveport Sign Company

arthur_ross
05-20-1999, 09:47 AM
Now that we've discouraged Joa from getting involved in the sign business, what else can we depress him about? I've always thought that if you could find a niche market for a part that takes lots of labor, you could bang them out on a little CNC system. The engraving stores do a good business with customized glasses, plates, etc., what about doing that on a larger scale with the ShopBot? Rocking horses with the kid's name?

Granted that any one product will not support you, but having a bunch of them might provide a nice "cushion" when your company "re-engineers" you out of a job.

Also, it's amazing but opportunities do come along from odd directions, the trick is to be prepared to do something about them.

Arthur
Deltamation Inc.

dthorpe@gte.net
05-20-1999, 10:13 PM
our machine has fit in to EVERY kind of progect
dennis and i ^shane have done sense we've got one.
we do woodworkin.
it does take patience, skill, and precious time.

termite
05-28-1999, 08:45 AM
I can see all kinds of businesses for shopbot out there but it is like you all said. It takes time effort, money, desire, and talent. By the way my machine is alot of fun. It is challenging to see what else it can do. My students are just getting into it. We are planning on a flea market this weekend. Go see one in operation is the best advise. the machine will sell itself.

mark
06-01-1999, 04:20 PM
All of the above is pretty true. What is the point of buying something if the money spent could make more in the bank?
I bought my machine to cut pieces for the giftware that I make. Signlab 5 is the package I use to draw up all my files. It works great and cuts anyway that I could wish for. I now produce signs to order and the comments I have recieved have all been very pleasing. It's something that I hadn't really considered as a business until I got the shopbot. I really enjoy the work and it fits in nicely alongside the other parts of my business.
If anyone in the Uk wishes to buy a shopbot they can see a machine at work and judge for themselves whether it will do what they intend to do with it. I have an agency agreement with shopbot and will be glad to help if I can.
Contact me at the email address shown.
Mark@walkerframes.freeserve.co.uk (mailto:Mark@walkerframes.freeserve.co.uk)

joa
06-02-1999, 12:40 AM
Well I bit the bullet and ordered a machine! Now comes the fun part- designing and cutting!

galbright@dundee.net
07-28-1999, 07:17 PM
A Pie in the sky idea...

First everybody who wants to participate sets up their shop to some committee set standard. This would involve an executive committee, who traveled physically to all of the participating "franchises".

Second, A marketing firm is contracted to make sales calls to all of the little gift and furniture stores (wherever the market goes). These marketing firms would make all of the "Franchise" Sales.

Next, when the sale is made, the part file is sent to a suitable shop (geographically, materials, time, and skill available) The shop cuts and assembles the "product" The finished product is shipped to the customer from the remote location.

Finally everybody gets paid. The marketing firm gets paid for making the sale. The product "inventor" gets paid for design, code, and instructions. The manufacturer gets paid for time and materials.

As always, the devil is in the details. There would be issues of fair distribution of work load. Differences in craftsmanship. The "intellectual property" would need to be rigorously guarded.

The big question to a business modeled this way is: Would anybody make money? Sales would be drastically streamlined, product design would be streamlined, and distribution would be streamlined. But are these the costly items in the target industry?

Any Thoughts or ideas?

ccr
08-04-1999, 10:24 AM
I like where you're going with this. Another idea would be to use the individual skills of this company of shopbotters to get the best possible products. In other words, if someone who has great designing skills in cabinet making is stuck doing the work of engraving lettering, things wouldn't work quite as smoothly. The thing to do would be to have everyone interested send in their strengths and weaknesses using the Shopbot to this "executive committee" and work would be distrubuted that way. Payment of services would be rendered in this fashion as well. The more demand for your skill, the more work you get, and the more you get paid.

In terms of this "executive committee," how would this be designed and how would the members be chosen?

My career as a shopbotter is soon to be ending. This is more geographical than anything... I'm moving. I'd be interested in managing the business side of this company, or at least having a part in it. If anyone wants to talk further, email me at chorby@pioneerplanet.infi.net (mailto:chorby@pioneerplanet.infi.net)

Cory Ryan
Artisan Goods

giggalo
08-05-1999, 03:26 AM
There are a lot of good questions and idea's here and how many shopbotters would go for this? The ones that are not doing so good would be the ones to jump on this right?

I have had my machine for about 2 years and played with it for 6 months to see what it can and cannot do before I planed to start a business.

Most of you know me to bend over backward to help in any way I can to get you started, I get over 50 emails a day from shopbotters asking for help and I am glad to help them if I can. One shopbotter in Austin was ready to give up because he was only making $300.00 a month with his machine, he called me asking if I wanted to buy it and that is when he told me there is no money in it, to make it short I told him to come to my shop and see what I do and how I got started.
He spent the whole day with me working and asking question on how did I get so much work and how did I get the word out and how am I able to do what I do so fast?
So many shopbotter have asked this same question that I thought I would post it here.

The key to any business is doing your homework and do it well.
1. Get the going rate for router and laser work for the square foot or buy the hour and get them from shops 50 miles around you.

CABINET SHOPS---------MILL SHOPS and so on.

2. Know how to use a cad program to draw patterns that shopbot will cut, I recommend TURBOCAD 5 3D.

Now when you get 1 and 2 done it is time to make money and these are my secrets to making good money (-:

It is easy to make money if you got the right idea and know what the going rate is?
you should already know this right?

1. A house sign in my area would cost $65.00 to make at any shop in my area, I sell them for $25.00 why? for a 10 foot 2x6 yellow pine cost $5.29 and can get 5- 2 footers out of it 6 to 8 if the names are not long?
and I make $120.00 for 5 signs and it only takes 30 minutes to make them so what did I make for my time? $120.00 for 30 minutes worth of work.

Now how do you sell them? I will bet that you know some teenagers in your neighborhood right, hire the kids to sell them for you and pay them $5.00 for each 1 sold and make sure you get the parents permission for them do this, there are 250 home in our subdivision and my daughter and her friends sold 229 in 4 days only working 2 hours a day, only hire teenagers that live in the subdivision your teen will know them all.

Parents like it when there kids make a little money and it beats mowing the grass.

I have 6 of the kids mothers working for me too and I pay them $100.00 for every 8 signs sold, if they don't sell 8 they get $10.00 for every 1 sold, so far not 1 mother sold less then 8, you will be surprised on how many people mother's know and for the money some mother's work 40 hours weeks.

So if you did something like this you could make $100.00 for every 8 sold and it only takes 1 hour to make 8, and it you did 48 in 8 hours you would make $600.00 a day.

2. Go to the schools in your area and get with the PTA and the fund raisers but you better be ready to put in some longs hours like I did.
All schools do some type of fund raising BAND CHEERLEADERS EQUIPMENT and so on.

I did 1 for my daughters school and boy was I in for a shock, The deal I made to the school was for any sign sold ADDRESS NO PARKING DOG HOUSE and so on for $25.00 I will give the school $15.00, in 5 weeks the school took in over 968 orders and we did 120 a day with only 1 machine, and what beats me is there are only 327 kids in my daughters school , so you better put a time limit say like 4 to 6 weeks for delivery?

3. If you live in a cold area say in the winter it gets 40 or so get with your local radio and TV stations and let them know you will be doing signs to raise money for COATS FOR KIDS and for every $25.00 order placed a child will get a new coat, You can set this up with WAL-MARTS they are always helping out in some way, and some times the TV and RADIO stations will give you free air time and it is for a good cause, sometime you will find that when helping others you will get more business then you can handle.

These are just some of the things I have did in the past to get started and it works, all you need to do is go out and get it, but when you do a school other schools will call you to see if you will do 1 for them.

Good thing to do is get you a website to post some of the things you do not just for selling but for people to go to see your work so you don't have to carry samples around with you.

Want to see if you can sell on the Internet? There are 100 of sites that offer free space, set up a page with a link to your home page and use the other sites pages to put ad banners on, you will find that other sites will let you put a banner on there site if they can put 1 on yours, a fair trade.

My site is listed in the top 5 of most search engines and I made this happen myself, some are #1 and 2 under WOOD ENGRAVERS AND WOODENGRAVERS I did it this way because some people think it is 1 or 2 works, to make your site be in the top 10 is KEYWORDS and TAGS above the header to fool all the search engine spiders that go to your site to get the info.

Make business cards and pass them out no matter where you are.

A lot of shopbotters have come to see what I do and learned some neat tricks. I have found out if you just do the simple things for a low price you will get more orders and make good money.

I have had 6 shopbotter call me a few months back and we talked about doing schools in our area, so I called the school district and found out that there are 1,700.296 kids in the 4 county's around us, how long do you think it would take and how many shopbotters would we need if we did that many orders? and keep in mind you might triple that amount? like I did with my daughters school?

This got the other 6 worried about how long would it take to fill this order? Easy you only do 1 school at a time, and what would each shopbotters make? again easy they get paid for each 1 done.

Now what would happen if we did this nation wide? I big company, No bosses No Employees just all the work you can handle? and for a good cause. Jim Peters works for an ad company and they do national advertising he said if just 4% of the schools wanted us to do this we would be looking at 87.7 Million.

This is something to think about shopbotters and it would be easy to set up. All we need is I person to handle all the orders, A trucking company to pick up and deliver to the schools.

Payment for work done would be made by the Shopbotter that lives in the town with the school we are doing. He will know how may orders there were and what shopbotter made how many, and after the order is completed and he receives the money the check is in the mail.

So look at it like this, say 1 school took in 2,500 orders? At $25.00 and we got $12.00 for each 1 made and if there were 20 shopbotters doing this 1 school and each shopbotter did there 125 signs.

Now what about postage and who pays for it? easy after the order is filled all postage is faxed the shopbotter doing the school and he divides it by 20 and that it what each shopbotter pays, so it would look like this

2,500 x $25.00 = $62,500.00
FOR SCHOOL $32,500.00
ALL POSTAGE $1,000.00
$31,500 divide by 20 = $1,575.00 per shopbotter

Material for job $125.00? = $1,450.00 and that is only for 1 day (-:

I would like to see the reply's to this 1.

Ron

joa
08-06-1999, 01:41 PM
I think this is a good idea- its tough for a single Shopbotter to pick up large volume orders due to the lead time. If there was a small network of reliable shopbot owners who could be counted on to get out their part of the order then we could easily compete on price due to our low overhead.

dilbert@cass.net
03-03-2000, 08:38 AM
I do porch resoration and replacement of Victorian Gingerbread. Would cutting the gingerbread be something that the shopbot would be able to handle? I know the shopbot routes, but does it do cuts too?

owp@mindspring.com
03-03-2000, 08:52 PM
Brad, Yes the ShopBot can do cuts. The amount of detail will be limited to the size of cutter bit that you use. You can get cutters 1/16" Dia. but the cutting length will only be in the order of 1/4" you can get 1/8" dia. that will cut approx. 1/2" and 1/4" dia. will cut 1" stock. Well you get the idea. I am in the process of cutting a spider web window grill for a half round window. This grill is being cut from 1/2" stock. We are using a 1/8" diameter cutter and cutting in 2 passes.

mnm@skyenet.net
03-31-2000, 09:47 AM
There are a LOT of intersting ideas here. I do not own a Shopbot yet. But it seems to be in my future for I have some business ideas of my own.

I am interested in what size/type of shop you are set up in. Also what other pieces of equipment are essential for good productivity i.e. belt sanders, paint booth, panel saw, table saw, dust collection etc.

sawdust@sover.net
05-05-2000, 08:54 PM
I have a small ShopBot. I use my machine 40 hours/week at least. The machine is capable of using tools 1 1/2" dia. and down. I cut custom instrument cases. The machine is very capable. I'm in the process of purchasing a PR96 with heavier Z set up and a columbo 5 hp head. E-mail me in a couple of months and I will let you know how everything is going. Very happy with ShopBot! If you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

haywardt
05-30-2000, 12:35 AM
I am in need of a few shopbot produced items, and I am in touch with several other groups who could probably use a few things. Anyone interested in getting a little more use out of their tools please email me with general pricing info, and your location.

tim@haywardengineering.com (mailto:tim@haywardengineering.com)

Dave Barnsdale
09-02-2000, 10:03 PM
I am interested in buying a shopbot with indexer
and probe to produce 3-d carvings. (archery bow
handles) I would like to know if any of you Shop-
boters out there have had any experience with any
similar projects? I am pretty sure that the machine will be able to make the parts I need, but
am uncertain if the Shopbot will produce the parts
fast enough. I would like to produce 2 to 3 per hour. Is this a reasonable exspectation? I have
never seen a Shopbot, let alone seen one work. I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan,Is there anyone near me, in Michigan or Wisconsin,That would cosider allowing me to see there Shopbot in
action? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

rfpaul@hotmail.com
09-03-2000, 02:47 PM
Dave, I live in the U.P., had my machine about a year now. Never got into the 3D stuff yet, just using it on signs. Drop me an e-mail and I can give you more details. Rick
rfpaul@hotmail.com (mailto:rfpaul@hotmail.com)

Rick Cooper
10-26-2000, 05:29 PM
We bought a laser engraver (basically does the same thing but on a smaller scale) without knowing anything! What have we learned in 5 years? If you concentrate on the business skills, and have a talent for BUSINESS you can be successful selling anything. Ron V's note above illustrates this to a "T".
The only non business question is, find something you can stand doing every day. The creativity and variety of the laser has enabled someone easily bored like me to stick it out this long. We're looking at getting the shopbot as complimentary to the laser (we can carve/cut from business card size to 4'x 8', etc.)- and working four days a week by keeping overhead low and prices high - by selling the carved look with my design experience/talent (signs/awards).

art@artscollectables.com
11-08-2000, 09:51 AM
I have a ShopBot on order. I am interested in doing 3D routing,with variable depths created by software. I have used Enroute 3D, with a MultiCam and it does a very nice job. I have heard about Cadlink's ProfileLab. Does anyone have experience or opinions about which package would work the best with the ShopBot? I have experienced problems with Scanvec (Enroute 3D)support, but have no previous experience with CadLink.

Thanks.

jlohmann@up.net
01-07-2001, 09:02 PM
I am a woodcarver with many years of professional experience. I have been considering a shopbot to do some of my repetitive carving tasks. I am also thinking about creating a catalogue of architectual details and furniture parts that I could sell as parts files to shopbotters. I know very little about this process or if this idea is feasible or of interest. Would these files work on CNC routers other than the Shopbot? I would appreciate any information on 3D carving, cutting speeds etc. I am especially interested in how the probes work to trace a 3D pattern. Post a message or contact me with e-mail jlohmann@up.net (mailto:jlohmann@up.net) thanks - Jim

rdhamon@yahoo.com
04-02-2001, 11:52 PM
I am interested in seeing a shopbot in action.
Anyone within an hour or two of New Orleans using one?

rgengrave@aol.com
04-03-2001, 02:00 PM
Bob sent you an email with 2 shopbotters that are close to you, I talked to the 2 and they are waiting for you to get with them to see who is closer.

Ron

benchmark@tesco.net
04-10-2001, 01:27 PM
Hi Mayo

I have very good results with a 1100w shop vac working my vacuum table.

There are a few items that will give you a problem , the OSB is too uneven to give a good seal and machining painted or polished materials, for some reason will not stay put as well as unfinished materials. (probable the lack of surface friction)

My vacuum table has a sealed MDF top with 32 vacuum pods, the trick is to use a 1/8” spoil board on top of this, it gives you a greater holding power than working directly on the vacuum table and saves damaging the vacuum table.

I have sent you a picture directly

luke izzi
04-10-2001, 07:43 PM
Hi, I'm only 12 years old and I'm just starting my own small business (my dad is helping me). But I just wanted to say thanks to all the people posting VERY useful info on this and other forums.

Gerald D
04-11-2001, 04:03 AM
Hi Luke,

If you are ever near Cape Town, South Africa come and visit us! You can bring your dad too.

Sean(19) & Gerald(45) Dorrington

urbanski@zianet.com
04-18-2001, 05:52 PM
Does anyone have experience using a shopbot with a
plasma cutter.will it work with plasmacam software? Has anyone engraved stone with one?Stan.

fuzzygrub@sinclair.net
04-18-2001, 11:07 PM
Check out Marty Harpers site for CNC stone carvings. Available on the web. When you figure out how he does it, please let me know. thanx ko

donchapman
04-20-2001, 08:07 AM
What is Marty Harpers web site address re stone carvings?

davidallen
04-20-2001, 08:29 AM
I found it by doing a search on 'marty harper stone carving'. don't remember what it was, just clicked on the link from the search engine.

donchapman
04-20-2001, 08:42 AM
I found Marty Harpers CNC stone carving web site:http://3dstonecarvings.20m.com/

John@victorydisplay.com
04-28-2001, 09:56 PM
Marty Halper's stone carvings are likely done on a laser engraver like this one. http://www.epiloglaser.com/
Unfortunately, machines like this carry a starting price tag around 3 times the cost of our shopbots.

I'd love to bolt on a light-duty CO2 laser to my shopbot, but it seems there are some liability issues keeping them off the (lower price) market. If anyone can point me to a manufacturer, I'd sure appreciate it.

Call me dangerous, but I can't wait to start engraving the concrete floor my shopbot is standing on!

danhamm@abccom.bc.ca
04-28-2001, 10:56 PM
Synrad, Universal,Coherant, there's a couple in
China I can't pronounce.. but you will find the
shopbot a little to slow for engraving with a laser..and believe me there is more to it than
just strapping it on to and x-y table.
Dan

rgbrown@itexas.net
04-29-2001, 09:08 PM
Marty Halper describes his method - cutters and the mill, a CNC Bridgeport on his website, no laser, no special bits.

gtw
04-29-2001, 10:41 PM
Joe: We are also new Shopbotters. Our machine took us quite awhile to get going, but it is now up and running and doing lots of things for us.
We still have to get some smaller bits, for finer cutting, but in general it's doing a pretty good job. We do woodworking here, just the two of us, and we do our own designs. Now we have to hae them converted to dxf and parts files. I have yet to learn how to do this. We have a young fellow doing that for us now and he's doing a pretty good job. some of our things need refining some more, but this little business has grown in the past 4-1/2 yeas to the point that when retirement comes (in 5 or 6 years) we'll have a good viable business to keep us busy. We can hardly keep up now. The market just keeps growing for our products. Sign making is NOT one of them. We make flowers, hummingbirds, perfume holders, vases, craft kits, magnets, card holders, and we also do custom work for larger items for lodge walls, hotel/motel lobbies and large foyers. etc. etc. We have a 35 page catalogue and that's growing every year as we add at least 3 new designs each year. It started out as something to do after retirement and we wanted to be prepared - well it's certainly more than that and growing every day. Now - can you support your family on something like this - not likely for a few years. But if you get a few things out there and into the retail market, you'll be surprised just how fast your business will grow. Get on the web, do lots of marketing and attend the Gift shows. That's where you'll pick up more of your customers. Don't give up, but I'd stay away from that sign making and go with the bread and butter items. Good luck.
Your machine will help you with bulk cutting and lend itself to expediting your work, but it will not do everything for you. Good luck.
Shirl

fuzzygrub@sinclair.net
04-30-2001, 11:11 PM
Marty Halper & Mayo Pardo seem to have basically the same ideas on photo to cut (tiff 2 CNC). It seems to work much better with a Z in the -.015 to -.035 range, I'd been trying it at -.375 to -.5 & YUUUK! The small differential in Z is definatly the trick. Thanks guys for the idea's keep it up keith

urbanski@zianet.com
05-01-2001, 12:19 PM
Where can I see a SHOPBOT in action near me(Caballo NM 87931)?Stan.

emilford@earthlink.net
05-18-2001, 07:57 AM
Is anyone using a shopbot in the Cleveland Ohio area that I might see in action? Thanks Mike.

urbanski@zianet.com
06-23-2001, 11:24 PM
Has there been any update on the plasma project?
Will the z axsis adjust for contour and pierce?Stan.

jayols@aol.com
07-21-2001, 07:39 AM
I'm a boatbuilder/cabinet-guy in St Augustine, Florida (N-E'ern part of the state). I'm getting more and more interested in buying one of these machines. Is there someone from this area, reading this, who would let me come and check theirs out?

beacon14
07-25-2001, 09:12 AM
If Atlanta isn't considered too far, you are more than welcome to stop by for a Coke and a demonstration!

kaaboom_99
09-03-2001, 09:23 PM
HELP!!!

My wife & I are planning to approach the bank this week for a loan to buy one of these amazing CNC machines. What can you suggest/offer as help before we go. We have been looking at several Business Plans etc. we want to make a good impression and have the right wording as to sell them on the idea first.

Any and all suggestions are muchly appreciated.

TIA

dmdraper
09-04-2001, 10:25 PM
Perry;

Assuming you are in the United States….

If you haven’t already done so, contact your state’s Small Business Development Center. This is a tremendous resource provided by your tax dollars and you can get a lot of professional help/assistance - free of charge.

With regard to your bank visit - I recently attended a small business certification course (sponsored by the SBDC) through our local community college. During one of the sessions, a bank commercial loan officer was brought in as a guest lecturer. He essentially said, "don’t even think about asking for a loan without a solid business plan" (we were talking commercial loans - not secured, personal loans). We were told there is money available - but have your well packaged ducks in a perfect row before you try to get it!

The IRS has a small business section on its website that has some good info also.

IRS Website Small Business Website (http://www.irs.gov/smallbiz/index.htm)

jmb@worldonline.co.za
09-05-2001, 01:55 PM
Is there any shop botters in South Africa.

I would like to get in touch with them regarding shopbot tools which they use.

joa
10-20-2001, 10:45 PM
OK, so I started this thread way back when, geez like over two years ago. Well now I really need it. The recent 9-11 attack put a so-called crunch on the company's commercial aero business and they had a lay-off and I was one of the "lucky" ones. So much for loyalty and all the overtime I've worked.

So now I'm glad I have the SB "insurance". So far, while working my day job, I've done a bunch of different kinds of jobs and made some good money on them but now it's different. I have two very young kids and a wife and mortgage and have to provide for my own medical insurance and all the other things in life.

So to rely totally on my SB, even though it's something I *really* want to do, is super scary.

So anyway, the question I have is what are folks using for bread and butter jobs? Something that will be a little more secured, steady work. I'm sure I can get some big sign jobs (I've done some nice ones) but to count on them to pay the bills is tough. Especially since I plan to work from my home shop and won't have a storefront.

So any good ideas?

Thanks folks!!

Joa

wecarve353@aol.com
10-21-2001, 09:23 PM
Joa- ditto, I am in exactly the same situation; I could have written exactly the same message that you did. The last three years I have never worked so hard, but the division I am in my "day" job has just pulled the plug. I always helped justify equipment purchases by thinking if I get layed off, I can fall back on the woodworking....well here goes, mortgage, insurance, etc,etc etc. Walking into my shop and facing my gear knowing I have to earn a living from it is daunting; what will be the situation a year from now is a guess. May be the best thing that could have happened, its what I love to do. Good luck, Tony

rgengrave@aol.com
10-22-2001, 02:26 AM
Joa I know a guy that worked for a company 15 years and was the first ones to get laid off, only to turn around and start his own company and in time run his former employer out of business.
Take what you have learned and use it to your advantage? Any person that has knowledge is a threat to any former employer, other company’s look for this information.
Now take a look at what it is you done and see if you can provide a service making it on a shopbot? If so use the resources you have to compete with them.
There are many manufactures that need things that many do not provide and many subcontract the work out.
If you put in 110% you will make it, if you wait for work you will end up broke, you will need to work 15 + hours a day at first in getting started?
Get a list of manufactures in your area and see if you will be able to make or produce the items needed, you might find they will sub some work your way.
Another thing that works well is get a list of every cabinet maker within 100 miles of you and give them a visit, let them know you have a cnc machine and are looking for some small work to do and you would be willing to kick some back there way, how can this help you? Ask any cabinet maker about calls for 2 or 3 doors repairs, you will find that most say it will be a few weeks before they can get to it because they do not want to bother with it, this work can be passed on to you? now if you have talked to say 100 different cabinet makers and left them some information on what you can do with your machine? Good chance you might get a call from them.
Best thing to do is get up Monday 7am and go to work on selling yourself and what you can do, do this for 2 weeks and I mean contact everyone even sign company’s.

Here is something you can try? It is what I am going to work on next year.

Have you ever been to a local park where they have 4x8 signs on the fence; these are local company’s that advertise at schools, parks, racetracks and so on.
I went to see my daughter cheerlead at a game and looked at some of these signs that were around the fence, 237 total, The next day I took my camcorder and got them all on tape, now these signs have to be over 4 years old because many were faded, I called about 6 of them and ask if they would like me to redo or remake them a new one, out of 6 calls 2 said sure and 3 said to call back later, 1 was out of business, so I checked with the school to see who was in charge of the signs on the fence, I found out it was something they did years ago to make money to get sport equipment.
Know what can you do with something like this? See what the material will cost you in bulk, what paint and supply will cost, now for around here it is $15 a square ft for painting and $75 a ft for routing.

$480 Painted
$2,400.00 Routed
I made an offer to make a routed sign complete with updated information and pictures of there choice for $400.00, and out of that $400.00 $70.00 will go to the school as a donation from them.
I am going to be calling all the company’s next year and see what happens.
No one around me will touch an engraved sign for less then $1,000 and the school is all for me doing it.

I figured my cost to make one is $42.00 for material.
Time to finish it 4 hours
Profit $288.00 each x 7 =$2,016.00 a week, if you only want to do 7 a week.
Now how many out of 237 will want them done? Odds our good I will do 7, who can say.
And if I only did 5 I still made a nice profit for the week.
The best part is after your done with them you hit another park or school.

This might not be what you are looking at but it is just some ideas, I have found out that schools and churches work best for me because I give back to the community

RonV

donna@shopbottools.com
10-22-2001, 10:53 AM
Joa,
One of the things I hear a lot from customers is they are purchasing a tool because they are charged a Lot for CNC outsourcing. I think you could offer a competitive price for these shops who do not own a tool and just need CNC cutting on an occasional basis. Send a brochure to all of your local sign shops and small wood working shops. Let them know you own a CNC tool and that you are available with competitive rates for their needs. Also contact the local school systems to see if they have any need for training on a CNC tool, or would like to make a field trip to your facility. Or the technical/community college nearest you. You might also check with your local employment agency. They sometimes offer programs to teach unemployed workers at local on site facilities. You could offer services to teach workers to use a CNC machine. I hope some of these ideas become profitable for you soon. Keep us posted on what you find that works for you.

Mayo
10-22-2001, 03:19 PM
Ron V:
I'm curious to know what kind of material you are going to rout for an outdoor sign 4'x8' that only costs you $42.00

Assuming you intend to use some sort of plywood, you will need to make absolutely certain you have primed and sealed all the routed parts or you're going to have one mess with delamination problems.
Even then, I imagine the sign may warp towards the routed side since you have removed the stability of the layers of laminated plywood. 2x4 stringers on back might be required.

I like your idea - I just hope you don't have problems with the wood 6 months or a year from now.

rgengrave@aol.com
10-22-2001, 04:08 PM
Mayo I buy material from L.B Sign Supplies in San Antonio TX, They have a 4x8 sign board for outside usage.
After it is routed and painted it just needs to be resealed with polyurethane,
The paint is from the same company.
If I bought 1 sheet the cost is about $50.00, but at unit cost it will be $42.00 a sheet.
Life of the sign is about 4 to 5 years.

What I like the best is the cost of material here, I hear Baltic Birch ½ inch cost $28.00 a sheet in most states, me I pay
¾ inch $18.00
½ $10.00
¼ $6.00
1/8 $4.69
all the above is 5x5 but can be bought in 4x8 sheets for a little more.

Ron V

joebrunson
10-23-2001, 09:28 AM
In South Carolina its $48.00 for a 4x8 and I can't find any 5x5 sheets

Joe B

waynelocke
10-23-2001, 12:12 PM
Ron,
Can you tell me where you buy that Baltic Birch at those prices in Austin. My wholesale distributor's prices in Austin are twice that. In 25 years in the woodworking business, I've never seen those prices in Texas. Also, if it's 4X8 it's not true Baltic Birch.
Wayne Locke

rgengrave@aol.com
10-23-2001, 04:17 PM
Wayne you have mail.

I am working with a company that might be willing to give shopbotters a GREAT deal? and this might be in 5 States?

I will be posting this informations as soon as I get the OK

Ron V

Mayo
10-24-2001, 03:45 AM
Is this Birch laminate on MDF? Or real wood for each ply? MDF core is nice and it cuts easy but you will have a visible difference in the color of the edge vs the color of the face when stained.
It doesn't matter for most of the work I do, but for some items it does. One example would be beveled edge plaques or frames.

rgengrave@aol.com
10-24-2001, 04:26 PM
Baltic Birch is a 7 ply and routes nice, it will leave 2 shades of color material but if you use the right bit for the edge it blends in real nice.

Ron V

carol
10-26-2001, 10:40 AM
Please be more specific regarding the bit for Baltic Birch plywood. I am using a 1/4" 2 flute end mill that works OK but requires finsih sanding. The part being cut has 23 arcs. An interior hole has 8 arcs and there the finish is particularly rough. The direction is counterclockwise.

Suggestions?

gerald_d
10-26-2001, 11:00 AM
Carol, surely you should go clockwise for the interior hole? Then there will be no difference inside vs. outside? Or am I missing the point completely?

rgengrave@aol.com
10-26-2001, 08:52 PM
Carol I use a neat trick for the fuzz? first run
the file at a slow speed, say .50, if you have any fuzz inside the cut then just mirror the file and it will cut counter clock, then just use an orbit sander to remove the top fuzz, nice clean cuts.

The router bit I was talking about is an ogee bit for the frames.

Ron V

carol
10-27-2001, 12:42 AM
So you guys are suggesting two things, if I condense your responses. First I should change the direction of the interior cut to clockwise and then I should run a finishing cut counterclockwise? It seems to me to run the finishing cut clockwise as the outside of the profile is run counterclockwise but the cut is OK.

The post process includes running the pieces through the Performax sander and then rounding over the edges. I do that while the next batch is being cut.

BTW, the thickness is 1" and I am making a thru cut at .50.

Any thoughts?

rgengrave@aol.com
10-27-2001, 09:53 PM
Speed and a sharp router bit makes all the differents.

Ron V

gerald_d
10-28-2001, 09:40 AM
Carol, The whole inside/outside and clock/anti-clock can be very confusing. While cutting doughnuts it is easy to distinguish what cut is inside and what is outside - but, what happens to a crescent moon shape?

My rule may sound silly, but it works:
If I stand on the edge of the finished part and look at the cutter, it must pass from right to left.

This holds true for roughing and finishing cuts.

carol
10-28-2001, 10:34 PM
That would say to me, clockwise on interior cuts. Counterclockwise on exterior. Yes?

gerald_d
10-29-2001, 05:07 AM
Yes. Then you would get exactly the same cut quality for "inside" versus "outside" cuts.

However, the cut direction is not that critical for "fuzziness" on the top and bottom edges of the board. The direction is most critical when you want to go around the outside of a sharp corner like the tips of the moon or around a rectangular drawer front.

For the "fuzziness", it is more important to look at sharp bits, depth of cut, feed speed, spiral bits for at least one clean edge. Also use bits with a very sharp "rake" angle that slice off the chips, rather than "bulldozing" them.

gerald_d
10-29-2001, 05:09 AM
We have gone way off the topic of this thread - maybe these last few posts should be moved?

wckelly@g2a.net
10-30-2001, 04:09 PM
I don't know much about CNC, where can I go or can someone tell me some information? I want to cut out parts to make furniture. Can this be done on the Shopbot? And to what extent?

Thanks,

Anything would be helpful.

Wayne

Wdyasq@yahoo.com
10-30-2001, 09:44 PM
Wayne,

Many things can be cut with a ShopBot. It is mainly limited by your drawing ability and your imagination.

Clamping, figuring out how you can get the part cut and other factors are things you may have to solve. The folks at ShopBot can advise you on the practicality of producing a particular part. Most commercial furniture is CNC cut.

Ron

danburk
11-04-2001, 06:55 PM
All,
I have been reading down this page and seeing all of the different ideas and questions about what the Shopbot can do.

I have had my BOT for about 5-6 months, I fill I have mastered it (for what I need now). It is easy to use, the software can be a pain some times but the tool is great.

I got my bot for a few reasons:

1) To eliminate labor cost. The Shopbot replaces about 5 worker. It does not take long to recoup your money for the Shopbot when you calculate by 5 workers even at minimum wage.
2) Increase the quality of the product. No doubt that the product quality has increased. (Mostly the letters)
3) Maximize the wood use. With proper planning the amount of scrap wood I have has decreased by more than 50%.

The reason I am saying this is:
If you are looking at recouping your money, look at all aspects, not just tool cost to sales.

Have fun and good luck.

http://www.signmakershop.com

tcheney@txcr.net
04-17-2003, 03:00 PM
Ron V,
I tried to e-mail you but got mail returned. I would like to visit your shop. Please e-mail me at tcheney@txcr.net (mailto:tcheney@txcr.net)

Thanks,
Terry

evandouglas@atlantic.net
10-20-2003, 02:39 AM
Is there anyone in the north east florida area that has a shopbot I could come check out? I am just south of jacksonville and would like to see one of these in action.

elcruisr
10-20-2003, 01:12 PM
We are in Winter Garden on the west side of Orlando. If you'd like to come down just let me know.

Eric Lamoray
Balsys Wood Arts, Inc.

nehdad
10-23-2003, 03:54 AM
Well it seems that this has become a long thread so I thought I would add my 2 cents for what it is worth. I own a marketing company in S.E. Wisconsin and have been fairly successful in my endeavors. I took on the task of helping a struggling aftermarket vehicle accessories manufacture try to save there company from bankruptcy. Unfortunately it was to late the company did not have the staying power or the mindset to compete in today’s market.

I am only starting this on a low note to tell everyone that you can make it and the ShopBot tools and staff are behind you 100%. Before the company decided to “give up” I was able to make some very solid contacts in the aftermarket industry. I saw the profit potential and decided to go ahead and make the pitch but of course they needed to see a sample of the work I could produce.

After much research I stumbled on the ShopBot website. I was amazed at the active forum sections and when I called for information I was shocked at how professional I was treated. In my business you expect to be treated with some mutual respect but after talking to used equipment brokers quoting me $25K - $50K for used equipment and brushing me off when I told them it was out of my range. I talked to Donna at ShopBot I was being treated with respect for a potential purchase of under $8K!!! It reminded me of why that manufacture I discussed earlier is out of business and why companies like ours will go on.

At this point I was almost sold (Never buy the horse unless you see her run) Donna suggested I go to the show that weekend in Chicago. I met John Forney there and I have to tell you ShopBot could not have a better representative at a trade show (and I have been a presenter at different shows for the past 10 years). Although the booth was busy he still took the time to answer all of my questions about the hardware, software and how the ShopBot could handle my application.

That was it for me I left that day knowing I was going to buy one!! But being in business as long as I have I have learned some valuable lessons. Do not bet the farm if you only have to bet the cows! So with that in mind I decided to purchase a used ShopBot. The only problem is I needed one now so I could get my samples out. I tracked down a used unit in Wisconsin, unfortunately it was a old PR96 cable operated unit. I thought at least it would get the samples out and if it works maybe we can expand down the road. Well to rap this up it did work, better than I could ever imagine. After having the unit for two days I was able to setup the table, configure the software and start cutting my designs.

All of the parts I have cut out were perfect and the company I supplied them to has given a verbal purchase order (Faxing a hard copy) totaling just over $24,000 and is expecting orders to be a minimum of $10,000 per month! I am getting ready to purchase another unit, this time going to a new PRT96 and can not wait to see the results that machine will produce.

What I would like to say to anyone questioning if the ShopBot has a good financial outlook as far as business then look at the parts you will manufacture, the accuracy you require and the savings you will have on hiring employees. And most importantly remember stay away from the old mindsets. Today’s customers are more knowledgeable and in this economy, more financially deficient then any other time in the past decade. If you cater to there needs you will win them every time!


Thank you ShopBot’s Staff and John Forney for all of your help and we will be doing more together in the near future!!


Rich Henry
Pro Marketing, Ltd.

dajons
10-28-2003, 04:16 PM
Just curious, what type of part(s) are you making that equal $10,000 per month? What type of business and how did you come across it? Most of us don't have marketing backgrounds, we can run the machines and crank out parts, but it's turning them into a pay check that has most of us stumped.

nehdad
10-28-2003, 05:46 PM
We are producing several different accessories for the vehicle aftermarket specifically PORSCHE and Corvette. I came up with the idea and used my marketing company to develop a plan of action. Focusing on finding who would be in the most financial and developmental position to distribute such a product. I wish I could give you all the answers but after spending almost $74,000 in school tuition and weekend conferences I can’t give everything away.

But if you tell me what you are thinking of marketing I would be more than happy to give you free advice on different avenues you might want to pursue.


Rich Henry

dajons@precisioncnc.com
11-12-2003, 09:34 AM
Rich,

I have been trying to send you e-mail but it keeps coming back. Could you please leave an address or send mail to: dajons@precisioncnc.com (mailto:dajons@precisioncnc.com).
Thanks

nehdad
11-13-2003, 02:18 AM
We are presently switching our web hosting provider. My email address should be back up by the end of the week (so I am told) if you would like to email me during that time you can use my personal email account richhenry@wi.rr.com (mailto:richhenry@wi.rr.com).


Thank you

Rich

russb@lominger.com
12-03-2003, 06:25 PM
Ron Varela (Giggalo) - Where are you located?

Do you have an email or phone number that I can contact you?
russb@lominger.com (mailto:russb@lominger.com)

manch
08-25-2004, 03:21 PM
Is anyone using a shopbot in the Pensacola, Florida area that I might see in action? Thanks Mike.

waltie
08-25-2004, 05:49 PM
I'am in Bay Minette,AL
email me to setup a time