Guys with sliding panel saws..

[Ajcoholic]

So I was investigating getting a parallel fence for my slider - an add on, that is used along with the stop on the cross cut fence to better align and cut strips of sheet stock (vs using the fence which is canted slightly away from the blade and can introduce an error).

Commerically made, I was quoted nearly $800 US dollars each.. which would amount to nearly $2400 Canadian for a pair. (using two allows easy cutting of tapers).

I was mulling things over in my mind over the past several weeks. Since I do some rudimentary metal work with my lathe and mill in the shop tool room, the only thing I was apprehensive about was making the part that hung off and locked to the edge of my Griggio sliding carriage. Its a funky shape unlike most of the standard slots and bars etc.

Then I got the idea to try and cut the complex shape from layers of Baltic birch on the Shopbot. I used 6mm material, and a 1/8" bit. Gluing several layers together, I thought this would probably work!

After the wooden block was assembled, I epoxied an aluminum U channel to it. I fabricated a cam clamp from aluminum and brass to lock it to the carriage. A slot milled into a block of aluminum, and a 3/4" square bar of aluminum complete the fence.

The locking bolt is a 1/4x20 brass threaded rod with a handle and wont marr the aluminum sliding section. A peel and stick tape and a cursor I borrowed from one of my Kreg fence stops allows very accurate setting.

Can be taken on and off the saw in seconds. Locks well, and is very accurate.

Total cost was about $30 and 3 1/2 hours of my time. Now I need to make another.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic031/image66_zpsxczrzpa5.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic031/image66_zpsxczrzpa5.jpg.html)

[myxpykalix]

"Necessity is the mother of invention"

[bobmoore]

The fence on my robland is too heavy for one person to remove and install. I like the idea of easy and in seconds but can't quite visualize what you did. Any chance of a couple more pictures?
Thanks if you can
Bob

[bleeth]

"(vs using the fence which is canted slightly away from the blade and can introduce an error)".

To clarify Andrew, you are saying the fence to the right of your blade is not dead parallel to your blade?
This should be adjustable so you can square it perfectly.

[Ajcoholic]

Dave,
Proper set up of any Euro panel saw, is to have the ripping fence slightly (like maybe 5 thousandths to 10) "open". The rip fence on a slider is really there as a stop, to set up your cut - but the material is always referenced off of the cross cut fence.

Think of it as you are either using your rip fence, or the stops on the cross cut fence to set your cut, but the material is always held up against the cross cut fence (which is set perfectly square to the blade).

Yes, you can still cut something using the ripping fence, but a small error is introduced especially on long pieces. The angle is set to give clearance a prevent any jamming of material between the fence and blade/riving knife.

This is the traditional way to set up and use the saw. Ideally, 100% of your cuts (both rip and cross cut) are referenced from the cross cut fence, and your piece you are cutting is on the sliding carriage. This gives you perfectly square panels.

Which brings us back to the reason for this parallel fence. If you want to rip, say, a narrow and long piece - it is hard to accurately reference the end to the cross cut fence and hold it without a means to also reference the other end.

[Ajcoholic]

The fence on my robland is too heavy for one person to remove and install. I like the idea of easy and in seconds but can't quite visualize what you did. Any chance of a couple more pictures?
Thanks if you can
Bob

Bob - I can. Ill take a few pictures when Im at the shop next. Might go in today or tomorrow for a few hours to finish spraying some interior doors I need ready for MOnday.

[bleeth]

Andrew: I respectfully differ with your method. When planning on ripping pieces from a panel the first thing to do is cross cut off a small amount of one end to ensure it is straight, then rotate the board 90 degrees counter clockwise with your cut end firmly against the end fence and rip a small piece off the length to straighten it and square the panel along those two adjoining edges. This is done with the parallel fence out of the way. You then set the parallel fence to the width you want and pull the parallel fence back and lock it so the off-feed end is short of the blade. Then position your panel so both edges are firmly against both fences. Now push the carriage through while firmly holding the panel and the cut piece will just lay there as there is no fence holding it at the blade. At this point you will be forward of the blade as well and can safely pick up or push over the off-cut. Some sliders even have a small pocket at this spot in the table so you can easily put your fingers under the piece to make picking it up easier. The reason that the parallel fence has this sliding ability on it is to be able to do this and avoid any possible kickback. Of course, if you try this with the parallel fence next to the main blade, as if it were a cabinet saw, your cut piece may well kick back at a VERY high rate of speed.
This was my, and every shop's I was ever involved in for over 40 years, way to handle a slider, one of the most dangerous tools in the shop, and mill accurate parts.

[Ajcoholic]

I dont think we are differing...

I too trim the end of the sheet, place it up to the cross cut fence, take a cut along the long edge of the panel and start ripping, using the (what I am calling the ripping fence, ie the long fence on the saw that on mine is replaced with the Tigerstop fence) ripping fence as a "stop". And yes, I too pull the fence back behind the blade when cutting smaller pieces. But for ripping I leave it in the forward position.

The thing is, what do you do when you have, say a 10" piece left over and need to rip an accurate 6" piece from it? The 10" is too short to accurately square the panel and take a cut, so you use the ripping fence to do this.

You may have your fence set parallel to the blade and carriage, but that is not the true way these saws are set up. Every technician I have spoken too (some European trained and them moved here to live/work) has told me that on Euro sliders the fence should be set approx 5 thou open, to allow a cut to be made and give clearance between the blade and fence. This prevents any binding, and any poor quality cut especially in melamine. I have set up my saw this way, as do many in our business.

So back to my scenario.. you have a 10" piece of material you want to accurately rip to 6". Set the parallel fence (the thing I made) to 6", set the cross cut fence stop to 6", place you length of 10" wide stock to both stops and clamp down, run the carriage through and you have a perfectly parallel 6" piece of material. On my saw, with the fence canted outwards, you would see a measurable difference in width if you use the rip fence to do this. Maybe 5 to 10 thou. Not a lot, but on melamine its is noticeable if you are aiming for 100% tight, accurate joints.

There is one tech in particular I rely on for my info. He has a mechanical engineering degree from Europe, and worked for several larger European woodworking machinery firms, before emigrating to Canada. He schooled me on the panel saws' ins and outs... lol But this is also pretty common among users I am familiar with as well, over the years. It certainly isnt my idea/opinion...

In the end whatever works!

When I make up a second unit like this one, it will also be very useful for setting angled cuts.

[bleeth]

When the piece is narrow I slide the parallel fence forward and, in general, push the piece through as if I were running a cabinet saw. This also means that If, for example, I am cutting 3 14" rips (Upper cabinet standard in my shop so after the 3/4 back nailer and 1/4 back still room for modern oversize dinnerware), I am using the same fence width setting for all three rips and can tear through multiple sheets quickly with one width set-up and then just slide the fence forward and cut the rest. One challenge with your system is if your setup for both fences isn't exactly perfect then your pieces aren't straight.

[Ajcoholic]

Setting a stop isnt what I'd call a challange, lol. To each his own Dave. I am not planning to use this for every cut. however whn I want to make sure something is 100% parallel to the best I can, this will do it better than using the rip fence. JFYI I also make my uppers deeper but it hasnt caught on up here with the other shops. However I use a full 1/2" back and no nailer strip. My father used a 1/4" back, one of the changes I made to his construction methods.

Some pictures of the setup. My two pneumatic clamps (also shop made for substantially less than bought ones) are another thing I did without for years. Until I tried one, and then now I wont use the saw without them. I ran the air hose through my carriage extrusion and I hook up the rear one when used.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic034/image67_zps6etfbhti.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic034/image67_zps6etfbhti.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic033/image58_zpsjr7qrrpn.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic033/image58_zpsjr7qrrpn.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic033/image49_zpstky5qvcv.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic033/image49_zpstky5qvcv.jpg.html)

setting the fence is easy once you adjust the cursor to read perfectly. Then check that the front cross cut stop is set the same.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic033/image313_zpsaw6z8k4b.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic033/image313_zpsaw6z8k4b.jpg.html)

[Ajcoholic]

my front clamp control is on my panel support arm.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic033/image219_zpshtivfovc.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic033/image219_zpshtivfovc.jpg.html)

here you can see the plywood (baltic birch) set into the aluminum with epoxy and filler. Its set level with the table before the epoxy sets up.

to tighten the fence, I turned an off center aluminum piece which has a brass pin which moves an aluminum bar up and down, to act as a cam clamp holding the unit firmly to the saw carriage.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic034/image101_zpsbtk3r5hc.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic034/image101_zpsbtk3r5hc.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic034/image111_zpsiw7kfjip.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic034/image111_zpsiw7kfjip.jpg.html)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic034/image121_zpslxvo8xud.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic034/image121_zpslxvo8xud.jpg.html)

[Ajcoholic]

My rear air line is run thrugh the table up to the front. There it is T'd with the front feed and runs down to the floor where I have a flexible hose running to the air hook up on the wall.

WHile in action, there is never a line in your way, or under your feet etc. Safe and neat.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/ajcoholic033/image134_zpsgh929krj.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/ajcoholic/media/ajcoholic033/image134_zpsgh929krj.jpg.html)

[gene]

that piece you made came with my felder slide saw . also I can release the fence so it is in front of the blade . reclamp it and this eliminates the possibility of the material pinching between the blade and fence