Upgrading from VCarve 7.5 to 8 on used machine?

[JoshBot]

Hey guys,

This is my very first post, and I'd like to thank you all for your input, one of the reasons I bought my ShoptBot was because of this killer forum. I just picked up a used Desktop for a steal and am absolutely in love. I built an enclosure for it and everything, I'll save that for another thread. Here's my questions:

The owner didn't have the thumb drive with the original ShopBot software but he did forward me the email from when he bought the machine in late 2014 and I was able to use that to download VCarve Pro 7.5. He forwarded me another email in which they upgraded the software to version 8.0 since he bought the Bot within the 12 month free upgrade period. This link seems to be dead, or at least comes up with an error, I've tried it on several computers and he tried it also. Is there a way for me to upgrade to version 8.0 that anyone knows of? If not I'll pay for the upgrade because I need to use the inlay function (I build guitars) and I like the features I experienced while using the trial version. I do have the license code for v8 but don't know where I can go to download the new software, any help is much appreciated!

[steve_g]

Josh…
My guess is you’ll get a new link when you pay the $50.00 license transfer fee…
SG

[JoshBot]

Thanks Steve! I searched the Vectric site and found the link to transfer the license, I didn’t even know that was a thing. Thanks again-Josh

[scottp55]

Josh...Don't forget to free upgrade to 8.5*** once you transfer...8.5 was a WONDERFUL upgrade:)
Is your Desktop a 4"Z, or 5.5"?
If 4", then you might want to contact Nate at Shopbot Sales, an inquire about the 5.5"Z retrofit...Makes it a LOT more useful!
Welcome:)
scott
Oh, if it's the "Shopbot Edition" then you'll have to go through Nate anyways.

[JoshBot]

Hey Scott! Thanks for the additional info, so if the VCarve is the shopbot edition then the transfer and update goes through Nate? That’s perfect, my interaction with shopbot has been excellent so far. It does have the 4” Z so I’m going to do the 5.5” retrofit. I wanted to go over to a spindle too but after building a full enclosure with dust control it is extremely quiet, and as far as accuracy goes on the practice inlay cuts I’ve done the router is more accurate than my hand inlays ever we’re so I think I’m going to stick with the router for a while.

I’ll be attending the training class this week, excited to learn everything I can from the experts!

[scottp55]

Correct Josh...It's the same exact program as the full Vectric VCP, but only includes Shopbot's Post Processors, so it's cheaper to upgrade(maybe ask about VCP9 price? although 8.5 did all I needed)....Ask Nate whether you have to install VCP8, but if I remember right, VCP 8.5* was a stand alone download link, and you may be able to just do that?
You'll need a straight down close-up pic of the Z-rail to get the right kit(although Nate might be able to tell from the original invoice from the previous owner?)...There were 2 different rails in 4"Z Desktops.
GET a full set of replacement screws for the retro-fit! You may be able to use all the old screws, BUT on my machine I stripped 2 heads(second Desktops retro-fit went perfectly),never hurts to have the extras for future use.
Retro-fit also gives you a Z proximity switch, which gives a really nice Z-Zeroing routine:)

Max and Lauri used the router set-up with their Desktop to do some Gorgeous work;
http://www.girouardmandolins.com/

Have fun at the training! (Give TJ heck:) )
Where are you located?
scott

[JoshBot]

I reached out to ShopBot about the transfer and upgrade of VCarve, and the upgrades to the machine, we'll see what they say. I also went ahead and ordered a plotter pen for drawing out shapes on project paper prior to cutting and a probe to measure and trace some existing guitar bodies and necks that I have. I think that I'm probably going to move up to V9, because the two sided machining is really nice for me, I would venture to say 90% of the work I do is double sided so it makes life easier than having two separate sessions for each project. I've got a pic of the z rail that I'll bring to class with me, hoping I can buy everything and bring it home with me, and thanks for the advice on the screws.

Those mandos are beautiful, I have the utmost respect for the people doing bracing and formed tops/sides/backs, I just build guitars out of (mostly) solid slabs of wood. I wanted a desktop max so I could run full necks in one pass, but I got such a great deal on this desktop that I figured I'd deal with the tiling for a bit while I learn the ins and outs of the machine, then I can upgrade at some point to the larger desktop version.

I'm from New Jersey, the farm/garden part, not the city/beach part. It's about a 6 hour drive for me to get to ShopBot headquarters but I think it will be well worth the training. What I've been able to glean from the forum, training videos and my time messing around with VCarve has been overwhelmingly good. I've only cut a few templates out of 3/4 ply and they've all come out perfectly so I'm excited to see what I can accomplish when I actually know what I'm doing!

[JoshBot]

So I'm gonna have to admit ignorance here... Even though the owners manual says 4" of Z travel my machine seems to already have 5.5", I'm still waiting to here back from Frank to verify but is my logic here sound? I have a 3/4" spoil board and a 1.5"/1.6" tool and I end up being able to achieve a little over 4" of upwards Z travel before I run out of room. It also has a Z proximity switch which from what I understand the 4" machines didn't have. So if this is all correct, then what is the purpose of the Z (or any) proximity switch? Because when I drive the Z upwards it still tops out and makes horrible noises, is there a way to set up the Z proximity to be a stop switch or is that not how they work? Man, I have a lot of learning to do

[scottp55]

Josh,
The only way it has the Z-Prox is if the person asked for it to be added at the factory(or did it themselves) on the 4"Z like we did.
The 5.5" Z that came out as standard in April 2015(?) already had it installed.
Sounds like you have the 5.5" with a 4" manual maybe.

Enter VN and make sure Limit Switches are "On" (ignore my switch settings as we had them mod us for 3 extra prox's and a fabbed spindle interlock that they had never done before and Gordon wired it differently).
Run a TS (Tool Setup) again, and on the third page(?) checkmark the "I have Z proximity switch" box.
If correct, then using the arrow key up...the machine simply stops when it hits prox.
Then a Z-Zero routine will go down/touch plate twice/pause at whatever you have set for Safe-Z in VC (Value Cutter)/continue up to prox/then retract 1/8".
NO hard stops(and saved my rear end just yesterday) and no lost position.

On spindles, the 4"Z had a dust shroud, that was eliminated with the 5.5"Z, but not sure what the router model looked like:(

Sales or support should have the info if you give them the original owners name.

Oh, on both our Desktops we found we could leave the alligator clip attached to the leveler leg, and when we touch plate to the bit(EVERY TIME) we get a green light on input 3 in SB3 panel....Not sure with router, but you may want to see if there's a place on your machine for the alligator clip to stay permanently where you get the green light continuity check. Green light= good to go.
Saves a lot of time not having to clamp it on bit or the nut every time.
Hope any of this helped..searched for pics,but they're either on my dead old laptop, or stored as CD.
scott

[JoshBot]

I also sent Frank my serial number and the original customer name to see what they can pull up. It might be possible that he (the original customer) told me the incorrect purchase date. I searched youtube for ShopBot Desktop and found some videos from 2014 and earlier with routers and they had the dust shield. This machine didn't have a dust shield and the original owner verified it never did, that along with the z-prox switch leads me to believe that he bought this more recently than he thought, which is good for me!

I'm going to play with all this stuff when I get back on Saturday, I'm leaving tomorrow around lunch time to plow through the snowstorm to Durham. All of the info you gave me has been extremely helpful and makes total sense, thanks again! I love the alligator clip trick too.

Two more questions for you, I see the extension on your bed, is that just for support or do you cut out there? And on your set up you have the x/y axis .5" larger than the bed and the z at 8", is there a reason for this or do you just do that so you get full travel and let the prox switched keep you from hard stops?

[scottp55]

CHECK to make sure you have continuity(green light) when bit is touched by Zero plate EVERY TIME you Z-Zero!

My spoilboard is a modification of Shopbot's Bill Young's Wedging Top. It allows you to use the full cutting area, and the outside apron is for fences and clamps. Raised area in the middle is the actual 24X18" cutting area, and I will just glue a new piece of MDF down when it gets surfaced to almost nothing.Threaded inserts really helps hold down!
At Shopbot, look at the Buddy's in production...They used to do the same raised cutting area there in Durham.

You have -.5" travel in the X and Y before you hit the prox for your standard X,Y Zeroing routine. I took a screenshot from this laptop which has never been near the machine, so numbers aren't always correct on SB3.
Control computer has never even SEEN the internet:)
So not really sure where the 8" Z came from....it doesn't hurt anything as the prox stops it.
Good Eyes! :)

Watch out for the OTHER guy, and safe trip!
scott

[scottp55]

Josh,
After that pleasant relaxing drive down the 95 Corridor, TELL me that Shopbot was open for basic training and had power!
I KNOW I thought you'd be impressed by 2 Desktops with spindles being quieter, BUT with no power they're REALLY quiet:(
Be safe, they don't plow much!
scott

[JoshBot]

Well....

Unfortunately it was an eventful trip, followed with a phone call from TJ last night saying that we would start at noon today, followed by a phone call from TJ this morning that they had to cancel class because the roads were icy and slick. Yesterday on my way down I85 right before I crossed into NC from VA I got an alert on my phone that the interstate was closed because the tractor trailers couldn't make it up a bridge and they were just running into each other and everything else around them. So I got off the highway to grab some food and then TJ happened to call me and tell me due to the lack of snow removal and the below freezing temps overnight that we would start late but we could make up for the lost time since there were only 2 of us in the class. So I just got a hotel where I was and bunkered down for the night. This morning I drove into Durham and was having coffee at a place about ten minutes from ShopBot and TJ called me again and said that they felt it wasn't safe enough in the ShopBot parking lot and the back roads leading to it. I must admit, they do a poor job of snow removal and brining the roads here, plus the drivers have no idea what to do. So they offered to either let me stay just for Friday and they'd reimburse me for my entire trip, or they could move training and do it Friday and Saturday and find another way to compensate me and the other fella taking the training. I figured since I drove all the way down here I'd make the extra day work because I won't have another chance any time in the near future to get down here again. My AirBnB host was accommodating and let me extend my stay another night, so just another day of food and one night of room and board. The hardest part was telling my daughter that I was going to be gone another day, she's almost 3 and might be a bigger Philadelphia Eagle (football) fan than me, we were supposed to make a green cake for the game on Saturday and make a fried Turkey Sunday, so now I'll have to get home late Saturday night and we'll do it all on Sunday, but it'll all work out and none of this is ShopBot's fault. To say that they did a horrible job with snow removal here would be too nice, I think it would be better if they didn't plow at all... But it's supposed to be 50 tomorrow and 60 on Saturday so by the time I leave it'll probably be all gone.

Poor timing, but such is life. I'm looking forward to going in tomorrow and giving all those guys (and gals) a hard time about their fear of snow :) And who knows, maybe I can get a free ShopBot mouse pad or something out of this deal!

[scottp55]

Yep...no smooth cruising.
Sounds like you can go in tomorrow and say "Show me the Swag" :)
Only two people...sounds like you can tailor the class to your needs, AND maybe make something for your girl as a present?
Snow got up to 6" on me one one trip to NC...pulled over for gas and afterwards said "I'm going to catch a nap...can you knock on the window when the plows go through?"
He said "It'll be a Looong nap...we don't plow...we let it melt" FLOORED this Maineiac:)
Too bad you didn't drive a truck with a plow....could have made enough money to pay for the trip AND buy the Shopbot store out.:)
Have fun tomorrow and Saturday Josh!
Did they really get 12"? (we only got 6" of fluff:)
scott

[JoshBot]

It was fantastic today, with me and two other guys (another guy was able to fly in from Ohio) we pretty much had TJ's full attention all day. We were able to do things most classes don't get to and we really did get to go deep on some specific questions I had or the other guys had. And everyone at ShopBot was fantastic, they got everyone in the building pizza so I got to sit at lunch with a bunch of guys in the tech department and talk about everything that came up, really a great experience minus the snow. I've already got 3 projects to take home and they told us to go buy whatever type of wood we wanted for tomorrow so it should be fun. I mean, what type of company asks you what YOU want to eat for lunch tomorrow, and orders it?

I was astounded at the lack of snow plows, and the guys who were plowing obviously didn't have much experience... I would say 10-12" is a pretty solid estimate and it's still on some of the side roads. The problem is over night the stuff turns into rock solid speed bumps and rattles your brain driving over it. Still has been a top notch experience, and makes me really want a Desktop Max with a spindle, more so for the extra room than the spindle. The spindles are great, super quiet and rock steady, I just don't think I'll upgrade this machine if the plan is to move to a Max in the near future, we'll see if that happens. I will say this, there's not another company that I would buy a CNC from after seeing their operation and meeting their employees (and the president/owner).

Will let you know how tomorrow goes!

[scottp55]

Sounds GREAT that you have a 3 person class with 2 machines:)
Yep, not many businesses like Shopbot for customer support!

Have fun cutting tomorrow.
This should put you months ahead of self taught people like me, who were Scairt to death the first time I pressed the "Start" button:)
Hoping the drive back is TOTALLY UN-eventful!
scott

[JoshBot]

Actually, in the training area they now have 3 desktops and a buddy, and we also had access to the PRS in the back. Today was an employee/family day, so they could come in and work on their own projects, although only 2 employees came to take advantage of it. The other guys in my class took off at 10:30 to drive back to Ohio, so I was able to work with Sallye (Mrs. President) for most of the morning and afternoon. I made a cool sign for my shop, but unfortunately an employee surfaced the table on Friday and didn't zero the z, so everyone's cuts were off (the other cuts didn't go all the way through, and my cut was so shallow that some of the letters didn't actually connect), but they didn't figure out what was happening until the end of the day.

Anyway, I was talking to Sallye about the design I cut out for my sign and I told her that was the logo that I inlay on the headstocks of my guitars, her response? "Come see this," walks me over to a picture of beautiful inlay done by Scott in Maine! Haha, what are the chances!?! We walked through the process of doing the inlay as you do it, with the vcarve tool path and mirroring, my question for you is what bits do you recommend for very fine inlay work? I'm on my mac right now so I can only post a pic of the jpeg of my logo prior to smoothing it and retouching it in vcarve to get the lines/nodes right. But this would be about an 1.5"-2" tall, with some fine detail. I found this site (http://www.precisebits.com/products/carbidebits/fret-cutter.asp) and was going to use their bits for cutting my fret slots, and they have engraving tools, but just wondering what the professional uses. I can send you the sbp file if you want to see it, if not just recommendations would be swell!

Oh, and I got home safe and sound, kids were already in bed, but I'm excited to wake up with them nice and early tomorrow!

31101

[Brady Watson]

https://youtu.be/d4992bEoNYI

https://youtu.be/WMD3SrP7Vxk

https://youtu.be/WYnO8kSHQ1c

...etcetera

-B

[Brady Watson]

but unfortunately an employee surfaced the table on Friday and didn't zero the z, so everyone's cuts were off (the other cuts didn't go all the way through, and my cut was so shallow that some of the letters didn't actually connect), but they didn't figure out what was happening until the end of the day.]

Uh...WUT?

Check your PM.

-B

[scottp55]

Thanks Brady...a couple there I hadn't seen.
Today started out with a totally clogged DC system from "Playing with Firewood" and hogging with the grain, and then decided to follow your advice, and wound up doing a complete machine maintenance(except cosmetic detailing:)

Hmm Josh:)
Glad to see that pic is still up on the wall of fame from way back(my Wall of Shame is MUCH larger!).
Shopbot had a Camp a few years back, and Sallye was there, and I had been putzing with Paul Zank's (and Damien's)excellent system of Vinlay for an Amish gentleman considering inlay for some of his tables, and with the Camp coming up I got into some smaller stuff for Show and Tell.
Two days without sleep, and Sallye kept bugging me to talk in front of guys who knew what they were doing,so after the third time she asked, I rambled on for 20 minutes and probably made a fool of myself!
One of the things that impressed me was Paul offered to drive to my house if I was having problems!!! Now THAT impressed the heck out of me for Shopbotters!
(Brady's another one that went above and beyond when I started!)

Funny...A Josh from Boston area came to my house with his wife because they were having blowout problems, and he gave me my very first engraving bit to add to my skimpy arsenal...It was an Onsrud .25" 60 engraving with a .01" tip, and that's what I used for all my Vinlays.
I tried plugging that bit into your Lion at 2" height, and it SKIPPED the eyeball:(
Others on Vectric Forum have been using a 30* bit with good results for fine details...so I plugged in an Onsrud .25" 30 degree with a .005" tip and the eyeball showed up with a couple other small details...so probably I'd try that to play with first..IF you like the detail?

IF you upgrade to VCP9, then contact my E-mail on my profile, and I can send you the file?

f you haven't joined the Vectric Forum I HIGHLY recommend it as tremendous resource for help!

I'd probably start a new thread, as there are MANY people with a lot more experience, and in the future it would be easier for them to find the info for luthier work?
Glad the return trip was easier than the trip down:)
Enough rambling for one day.
scott