Ways to make the computer more reliable

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

I'm using a P200 running W98 on the Shopbot computer. The only other software installed is Norton Utilities and AutoCAD. In the last few months we've had three occasions where Config.sys, Autoexec.bat, Shopbot.ini etc. files have be corrupted. Once when we ran scan disc there was a bad sector and that fixed the problem. Yesterday that didn't work and we needed to re-install the Shopbot software. I lost a mornings production messing with a computer. The bottom line is we need a more reliable system.

We think it might be time to replace the hard drive. Will there be some issues with the 2 gig limit of our bios since about the smallest hardrive available is at least 10 gigs?

I don't own a copy of DOS, but am willing to give it a try. Is there a version that is more stable for this application than the rest?

Would re-installing only the necessary Windows components work as well?

Anyone have some thoughts on quickly restoring a crashed system?

Thanks in advance.

[david_fisk]

Sheldon,
I don't know about win98, but I recently figured out how to reinstall my own win95 system after living with a marginal system for years. First I saved a program called mscdex.exe to a floppy, along with my cdrom drivers and my config.sys file.
2.format c:/s
3.copy the mscdex.exe back to c:
4.copy the config.sys back to c:
5.reinstall the cdrom drivers
6.md win95 (do this on the c: drive)
7.copy all the files in the win95 directory on the cdrom to the new win95 directory on c:
8.cd c:win95
9.setup.exe
After doing all of this I was amazed to completely reinstall windows from the ground up.

Like I said don't know about win98

[Mayo]

Sheldon,
I also use Win98. Make sure you have installed all the critical updates that windows makes available free online. http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/
This assumes that the problem computer is connected online.

This will sound painfully obvious, but always start with the simplest remedies. Don't reformat until you're really sure there's no better solution. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not necessary.

Next would be to look at the corrupted files using notepad. They are readable text files and you should be able to see if anything has been added or changed. If they are so corrupted that you can't even open them, then perhaps they're located on a part of your hard drive that's giving problems.

Run disk clean-up and scandisk and then defragment the hard drive. These are available in START, PROGRAMS, ACCESSORIES, SYSTEM TOOLS

I believe Norton utilities has a program that checks the integrity of your hard drive surface.
If it finds bad areas, it moves files out of and makes sure programs do not write info into those areas.

Have you had power outages or have you been shutting down your computer without first exiting each program that is open? These can be sources of file corruption.

Is that computer connected to a good surge protector?

Another obvious source of file corruption is the internet and e-mails. Is that computer connected to the internet? If it is, I recommend installing a firewall and at least two anti-virus softwares.

Free firewall software is available from ZoneAlarm
at http://www.zonelabs.com/index.html
just scroll down for the free version.

My current favorite Free anti-virus software is available from http://www.sophos.com
Probably one of the most popular anti-virus softwares is McAfee and they have a free trial download. http://www.mcafee.com
It's a good product but they want yearly (paid) subscriptions. I found their latest software was slowing down my computer so I removed it.

Another really great free software I just downloaded is called AdAware. It scans your computer for any stealth or spyware files that websites have placed on your hard drive. Did you know companies track your activities online in this way (by leaving program files and cookies on your hard drive) and sell this information to other companies? This software found 45 suspect files on my computer! - all from websites and programs I don't even remember going to or using. Since removing these suspect files from my computer, I have way fewer lock-ups and the speed of browsing has improved greatly. Anti-virus software doesn't check for these files because they're not really "viruses".

[toml@starband.net]

Windows 98 is a funnny product in that it just is not going to be stable on some computers. I think it has to do with the bios, but I can tell you for a fact that some computers are just not going to run 98 very well.

Since you are running a DOS program when you run Shopbot how about going back a bit and trying win 95 or maybe even 3.1?

[donchandler]

If you want to be stable, get rid of Windows. I have used a 486 and a P150 on my Shopbot with no problems. I have the computer, the shopbot control box and the stepper power supply conected to an APC battery backup. I made a relay that is connected to the input port. If there is a power outage the Shopbot thinks the spacebar was pressed so the program stops. Of course the router stops running, so I turn the switch off. I then insert a MO command to turn off the steppers. The APC will keep everything alive for about 10 min. If the power comes back within this time I turn the router on and resume cutting with no problem. The APC stopped almost all of the strange things I had happeneing before I installed it. We leave the computer on 10-12 hours per day and many days cut all day. No problems. I installed MST boot to allow booting directly to Dos to run the Shopbot and if I need to, I can boot to Windows, do some Acad or Vector work, then boot back up in Dos. I think it has been 18 months or so since we have had any problems with files being messed up using this system.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

DOS is looking better and better. I've been turning up dead ends trying to find a legal copy, but there seems to be no shortage of the other kind.

[david_fisk]

Sheldon,

One thing I did when I reinstalled win95 was select the custom installation/small version. I can't believe how fast it loads windows or goes to shutdown. I was going to go with dos only but this has worked very well for me. Maybe you could find a win95?

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

The current version of DOS is in the Version of Windoze 98 I am running in my 'drawing' computer. My old 486 running my 'Bot' has an older version.

One nice thing about running a 'Pentium' class computer is one can network the computers and transfer files through the network. I have a 500 MHz computer I plan on moving to the shop and connecting them together - no more floppy disc file transfers then.

Someone on the ShopBot may correct this but I believe the ShopBot program is running in DOS. If I am wrong, please do correct me.

Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com (mailto:wdyasq@yahoo.com)

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[david_fisk]

Ron,
I have a network, but I had so much trouble with it I finally gave up and went back to diskettes. The .SBP files are nice and small so you can get quiet a few on a floppy. I probably should try the network again (since rebuilding windows) it will probably work better.

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

David,

If it were all simple, everybody would be doing it.

WINDOZE requires the various computers in a network to have different serial numbers. Other than that, my friends tell me simple networks are. The advantage of a network is the elimination of dust in the drives. I have replaced the diskette drive in my "Shop Computer" a couple of times.

I think I could be a fan of LINUX. However, were I live there would be no support from other LINUX users. There is a "Stroke for stroke" replacement for AutoCAD at a reasonable price for LINUX I am told at: http://www.softwareforge.com/ For $100 the price is right and if it will output files that can be used by a CAM program......

Right now I am happy with using RHINO for file generation and VECTOR to write code. In a few weeks, I will try a new code writing program and let folks know what I think about it.

Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com (mailto:wdyasq@yahoo.com)

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[david_fisk]

Thanks for the link Ron, I'll add it to my "Convert to linux folder" so when I make the big move I'll have my resources in order.
As for dust... It's not so much the dust but the moisture that can be present with it. I've found that by leaving my computer case loose I can quickly remove the cover and blow out dust with a blow gun. Its good preventative maintenance. I do the same with my SB control box. I've had trouble with my floppy drive too, and simply blowing out the dust has "fixed" it.

[Mike Schwartz]

I built a box around my cpu and use a bathroom fan with a high efficiency furnace filter to pressurize the box. Keeps all the dust out very nicely.

As for upgrading old computers - you may be able to "flash" your bios to update it with new software (a P200 would be right around the time they started using flash bios). Otherwise just partition the hard drive into sections 2G or smaller. Each partition shows up as a separate drive. You can partion using a utility that typically comes with you hard drive.

[thommyt]

Mike, I'm interested in your use of a bathroom fan...to pressurize the box.
Can you elaborate? Either by post here or email direct to me. Thanks

[gerald_d]

Thommy, Mike hasn't been around for nearly two years.

[ckurak]

Thommy,

One idea...

Buy, or make, a cabinet to house your computer box and ShopBot controller box. Mounting it on wheels makes life easier. Buy a $15.00 bathroom exhaust fan. Measure it. Cut a hole in the side (back) of the cabinet for your computer and ShopBot controller so that the fan fits in the hole with the exhaust port on the INSIDE of the cabinet. Mount one (or more) really good furnace filters on the OUTSIDE of the cabinet so that the bathroom fan is sucking outside air INTO the box through the filters. (Do not use the inexpensive (50 cent) filters. They won't keep the dust out.) Be sure that air cannot sneak around the filter and into the fan directly. That would defeat the purpose.

Run the fan when you run your computer. This will create a positive air pressure inside your cabinet. Two things are happening here: 1) Cool, clean air is being brought into the cabinet to cool your CPU and controller, and 2) dust that is floating around will not be able to enter the cabinet since the fan is forcing air OUT of all the spaces between doors, drawer fronts, wire holes, etc.

I have my keyboard, mouse, and monitor on TOP of the cabinet. Also, I've mounted my Emergency Stop Switch to the top of the cabinet, right next to the keyboard and monitor so I always know where it is.

Last thought, be sure to measure everything that you want to go into your cabinet before you decide what size to buy, e.g., CPU box, ShopBot controller box, UPS, bathroom fan, speakers, wiring, etc. You can also keep handy items in the drawer(s) above the computer area, e.g., bits, calipers, ShopBot manual, pencils, etc.

[artisan]

As I have posted before in the archives, the simplest solution is one of the birch cabinets sold in the "home" stores, which can be had for around 50 bucks. Get your casters, fan and whatever switches you wish while you're there and the total cost should come out around 115.00 or less. I recommend you re-inforce the bottom and as Charles stated, you'll find the model with a drawer quite handy....D

[stickman]

My situation is a little different. My computer is a Windows knockoff from the Imac, so its all contained in one box. I'm planning on building a cabinet to house, it and the control box as well as create the positive air pressure. We took the boxes and packing from the bot and made a temp shelter for the computer and control box, no dust collection system yet, and its doing quite well to keep the dust from the systems.

[jay]

With the box over the top of the computer and control box watch out for heat build-up. Fastest way to wreck a computer is improper cooling.

[robtown (Unregistered Guest)]

I've seen a computer dust bag, or boot, somewhere recently that seemed like it was worth trying. Can't remember the name though. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

[artisan]

It's called the "Dirtbag"....and it's not very practical and tears easily. I bought one to test it. It also makes your computer look like a big lump of something. I would think that would only get worse as the bag gets dirty. The positive pressure cabinet is easy, attractive and practical. With casters you can roll it around for cleaning. The big front door gives easy access to both the Controller and the Computer. Most importantly....it delivers fresh air to your electronics and keeps them dust free....D

[Brady Watson]

Has anyone just used a couple of HEPA heater elements on each side of an enlosed cabinet? That to me, would seem like the easiest and most efficient option.

My CPU and control box are in an enclosed cabinet. It really doesn't get any real dust in there...no more than the house anyway.

-Brady

[prosigns]

I built a box for the shopbot control, put a small fan blowing in to pressurize the box, I put a large car air cleaner filter over the inlet on the box , just blow the car filter out from time to time. Did the same thing to house the computer and monitor. I've run this system for 10 yrs. on my old router set up. The computer stays cleaner than the ones in the office.

[srwtlc]

Here are two computer/control box cabinets that I've made. The one is mine that I've been using for about a year now (I haven't had a problem with either the floppy or the CD-rom since) and the other is one that I was asked to make for a High School after they saw mine at a demo that I gave. They each use a 65cfm Radio Shack fan pulling through a filter to pressurize the cabinet, thus keeping the dust from entering the cabinet. On mine, I also used a large (3" high) automotive air filter, but I find that it plugs up quickly and needs to be blown out often. On the school's I used a good quality 16" x 20" furnace filter. The keyboard and mousepad attach to the back of the "ShopBot" door that flips down. The monitor door flips up on top. There's enough room in the bottom for the computer, control box, and a printer.


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[stickman]

Scott, That cabinet looks great, I love the shopbot BLUE color. Got a couple questions to ask you.

How about a couple dimensions on yours, width height and depths?

Do you have two filters on the schools project?

What style of hinge are you using on the top door?

Do you have any drawings you'd be willing to share?

Thanks, Jay - StickMan WoodWorking

P.S. Yesterday I spent from 7:00 - 5:00 at our county home show, lots of people stopping in. I'm making some contacts, so residential and farm types and a few commercial types, maybe even some golf course. I'll post pictures and a little more of my experience later on...

[srwtlc]

Jay,

Yeah, that blue worked out pretty nice. I made the painting easier on the school's by not painting the inside. I like it better that way, it's brighter inside. I used a deep tint primer and the blue is a Pittsburgh Paints color 347-7 Daring Indigo (I used Dutch Boy Cabinet & Trim - High Gloss). There are three roller coats of that on it (I wasn't about to contaminate my sprayer with that), giving it a sort of hammered finish.

The dimensions of mine are approximately...62" high w/casters, 32" wide, 24" deep on the base, and 19" deep for the keyboard/monitor. The keyboard height is approximately 34". I sit at it on a 24" stool. It seems to be a pretty good height for me. The school's had to be higher both top and bottom to allow for their components.

I have only one high quality 1" filter on the school's. The filter is spaced away from the cabinet back to allow the air to flow over the entire filter as it fills with dust. My thoughts are that if the one filter didn't catch all the dust, I would use some dust bag material (3-5 micron?) behind it as a secondary filter.

I get all my cabinet hardware from Hardware Distributers Ltd. (1-800-383-1009). The top hinge is a Amerock 270 degree frameless hinge. I modify the top faceframe a little for it. All the other hinges are Blum Compact 33 110 degree hinges with a 1-1/4" overlay mounting plate (including keyboard door).

If anyone would like some drawings you can e-mail me. I would have to make them more user friendly before sending them to anyone though ;^). Mine was a prototype and I made some improvements on the school's. Mine is in two pieces and the school's is one piece. They're made out of raw 3/4 MDF, but you could adapt them to whatever material you like. The MDF works great for v-carving the door panels. I designed the cooridinate axis and router designs for v-carving into the doors. I have drawings and toolpaths for those also.

Scott

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

I love the idea of the automotive air cleaner cartidge. I've been using a 3M (passive) electrostatic filter and still a lot gets through.

Does anyone know how fine a particle the automotive filters are designed to capture?

[Brady Watson]

Scott,
Beautiful job! You should be proud of yourself


-Brady

[srwtlc]

Thanks Brady, I try


Sheldon, I have found that there is a little dust that gets through to the inside of the automotive air filter, but not much if any gets into any components. The filter fills up fast though, restricting the flow of fresh air to the computer/control box. I just remove it every so often and blow it out. Not only do you need to keep the dust out, but if you have a processor that gets warm (Athlon XPs), you need to keep it cool also. I have made some ducting inside the computer case along with a blow-hole with an 80mm fan that blows air right on the processor/heatsink for my cpu. With the Shopbot control box and the computer it can get pretty warm inside the cabinet.

Scott

[gerald_d]

Most automotive filters have micron ratings anywhere between 3 and 30. The better quality ones are around 10 micron. You can easily stack the round auto cartridges on top of each other to increase the filter area/airflow.

[Brady Watson]

You can also use an oiled foam pre-filter like the ones that Rally & Baja racers use to keep fine dust out of the paper filter. It is essentially a foam ring that goes over the paper element. They work pretty well and don't seem to restrict air flow.

-Brady

[stickman]

Here are pictures of my control cabinet. Scott its not as nice as yours. But it was materials that I had leftover from a couple projects and alot of scraps that I got from my day job. They just throw the stuff in the dumpster.


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[stickman]

This cabinet replaces the cardboard box shell that We built to protect the computer. It also increased my loading space. I wished that I had taken pictures of what this replaces, but I had it tore down before I thought of that.

Its got a keyboard tray that is on drawer slides, I've got drawer slides down below that for another drawer I have yet to build. I've also got doors to hang. Its built with two CPU compartments at the bottom, in the case that this computer burns out.

Its going to need a couple coats of paint to improve the CDX plywood sides and the waferboard back. But it does its job!

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[gerald_d]

And what are you hiding behind the curtain under your 'bot?

Your stool is also interesting.....

[stickman]

Gerald,

There is just material storage underneath the table. Had some old blinds that were taken out of the house. I was going to throw them away. Its not the most durable material, but it controls some of the dust.

The stool was made from the same sheet as the control cabinet's side panels. I'll take a better picture of it tonight. I want to cut it again, out of oak or maple.

[stickman]

Gerald,

Here is a better picture of my control stool. Its something I created. The seat is stop dadoed into the legs and screwed from above. The ring is fastened through the legs. Next time I cut it, I want to cut the legs from oak or even just poplar, something with better strength than CDX.

Thanks for asking...


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