BEGINNERS SOFTWARE?

[outdoor@pacific.net.ph]

Im a signmaker. What software is recomended for basic cutting for letters and logos ( the easiest!) Can i use my flexiletters of amiable technologies ?

[giggalo@aol.com]

I would say Turbocad

[jkforney]

Check out the vcarvz beta on the Vectorcam web site (vectorcam.com). It will import dxf and if you recently bought a Shopbot, you have Vector which will give the tool paths for shopbot. It will allow you to 3d carve both any windows font text and logos in a dxf format. Right now it requires Vector but I think a stand alone program is in the works.

John Forney

[tyepl@pacific.net.sg]

Hi Giggalo,
What version of Turbocad are you using.
Albert

[giggalo@aol.com]

I use ver 6.5 now, but verison 4 and 53D will work fine.

I use Turbocad because you will be able to save as a 3DS file, this will let you use Milling programs for 3d work.

Ron

[northernecho]

I have a wooden scrol that I have to duplicate. I have scanned the image in, brought it into corel trace, traced it, cleaned it up, and exported it as a DXF, then converted it to SBP within SB Software. When I run the file, the Router spends 80% of the time plunging, and if its not doing that, it wanders aimlessly about the board making small cuts here and there, aventually, it does cut out something that looks simular (about a router bit too small) to what I want, however this all takes about 45Minutes to cut a 4"x8" scroll

Any thoughts or better ways to get the image in would be greatly apreciated the scroll is almost all curves, with 2 flat edges. I have GREAT looking pictures / traces of the cut if that helps any.

Thanks

[RgEngrave@aol.com]

Andrew & Judy, Coreltrace does not work all that well, to do fret patterns are simple if you have the right programs to do it?, I do fret patterns that would take days to draw-up by hand and hours to cut.

The best way to copy the pattern is to use a good Font making program, and make a copy of your picture, Font cut faster and cleaner + you can control what you want to cut first, the inside or outside.

The programs I use would run you into the 1000s.

If you would like me to convert your patterns for you? just let me know, it only takes seconds to to them.

Ron

[bill.young]

A&J,

You have a couple of options; here are a few. Probably the best is to use a program like Vector to create your toolpath and offsets. Once you get the hang of using it, it's a snap. You might talk to the ShopBot folks about getting a demo copy if you don't have one, and also download the instructions on working with Vector from their web site.

If you have a CAD program that has a "join polyline" command like TurboCAD 6.5 or AutoCAD's PEDIT, you can join all the seperate polylines together into one big polyline. Then offset that polyline by the radius of your bit to get the proper toolpath and convert that to a part file.

The most time consuming way is to use a CAD program to trace over your drawing with a single polyline, snapping from point to point. It can take a REALLY long time if you have lots of points, but the advantage is that just about any CAD program can do it.

Bob N. deals with this sort of thing a lot when he does his colossal dinosaurs; any tips Bob?

Bill

[davidallen]

also remember, the lines you're creating are the paths of the tool, not the surface of the wood. programs like Vector or Deskam are useful for creating offset lines that compensate for the thickness of the bit.

if you have a 3D-DXF file, a program like MillWizard will do the offsets for you. since it's a raster pattern, it'll be slow to cut, but fast to convert.


da

[birdsofplay]

I have to agree with the "downsides" of Corel Trace.
It can be improved a "TAD" by playing around with all the settings, but that is NOT intuitive.

WinTOPO is another tracing program that requires a BMP file for starters.
It has some smoothing and thinning algorithyms.
But if you get too dense the thinning MAY not work and then the tracing functions complains.
But for tracing silouettes or outlines I like it !
A buddy came over with a "Yard Art" plan and I scanned, traced the outline, scaled the dxf, converted to SB and cut out the "CowBoy" in 45 min from the time he showed up !!!


Bruce Clark has a TIF to SB converter that works with 8 Bit GreyScale pictures.

All the above have their merits and flaws.


The Dinos were ALL hard won by doing the CAD tracing task. ie lots-O-work !
Thats why I didnt want to "share" them plus I had a few "OOPses" in there that I havent taken the time to fix yet.

Still, if a job is WORTH it, then the time will be well spent. I've WASTED lots of time trying to find an "AUTOMATIC" that was affordable and I havent found it yet. I believe I could have chiseled out a few base-relief in the same amount of time. sigh ...+

Stepping on the soapbox "once again" ...
Take a look at the picture that you want to do.
Now imagine what a program will have to do to
give you what you want from that picture.
Now given that Lights and Darks are going result in "some" different levels of cuts ...
What do you imagine is going to happen ?
( not WISH FOR !!! but actually happen )
For most pix I Just CANT imagine how a programmer would interpret color densities to arrive at what I actually wanted.
ie. LIFE is just not a smoothly transitioning color gradient.

For example a Dogs nose is almost always BLACK
and the rest of the critter is lighter ...
so the nose is either going to be radically concave in contrast to the rest of the face OR vice versa.
Either way, it Aint Gonna Be Right !!!

If you want a quality 3D base relief to be your end-product PREPARE yourself for expensive software and long learning curve.

[garbob]

I have it but have never used it (ver 8). A friend of mine that is a signmaker uses a really old version of Adobe Illustrator. He showed me how it converts anything to a vector format. I was only looking over his shoulder, so don't know how hard it is to learn. A current version is pricey, but I know that it is usually possible to pick up "new" older versions for very low prices.
I have been told by at least 5 graphics professionals that it is truly amazing compared to anything else. I'll have to try it soon.

[birdsofplay]

Um ??? I just looked at Adobe Illustrator V 8.
and the help files.
It does do a fairly nice trace, but it has no save
as DXF feature. Or at least I didnt find it.

I suppose you could use the trace feature to get
an "outline" from sillouette shapes and then
after saving as bmp you could run WinTOPO on
that to get the vectorized DXF file.

I didnt like the way it worked because I had to
click on each part. I was using a dino-bones.jpg
and there were a lot of bones !!! I also tried "select all" to no avial.

I think that term Vector may be used by Adobe et al in reference to their Painting and Illustrator
offerings, however, unless they have the ability to output dxf of other CAD format then it is of
no use re Shopbot.

[giggalo@aol.com]

Bob if I remember right? you trace the picture in
Adobe Illustrator then save it as a WMF, this will be a vector fromat. Then in a cad program you need to insert the picture, not import.

Not sure how it works with other cad programs but with Turbocad all you do is make a new page and select Insert then File.

Ron

[fuzzygrub@sinclair.net]

Flash 5 from macromedia also has a bitmap autotrace and outline feature that seems to work well on scanned line drawings.It also exports dxf files that seem to work decently with vector. Although it sells for approx $400.00, you can atleast checkout its 30 day free trial to see if it is for you. It has the best autotrace function of any of the demo's I've tried.

[christopher@crasshomestead.com]

Please Help, I am a new shopbot user. I have AutoCad 2000 and Rhino loaded onto my system. I have full size pattern plans that I have been using to cut out parts for the projects that I make. I need the easiest and fastest way to get those plans loaded into one of these programs. Any Ideas?

chris

[bill.young]

Hi Chris,

If your patterns aren't too small and are cut out of plywood or something solid like that, you could use one of the edge-finding routines that are in your SBPARTS folder to create a dxf file. There's information on using them in the Bill's Corner section of ShopBot's web site.

I'm also working on a way to create files from line drawings using a barcode wand. It's being beta-tested now by a couple of ShopBotters and seems to be working pretty reliably so far. About all that's left to figure out is a good way to mount the wand...as soon as we get that sorted out I'll let y'all know.

Bill Young

[densull@core.com]

Hello, ShopBotters!

If you need a CNC or DXF file to duplicate an existing flat part, template, or tracing, we at Skalar Systems can help. We can take a tracing from your part or pattern and turn it into a DXF file or G-code file for you. We manufacture the big (5 X 12 foot) digitizers to do this, but we'll also do it on a contract service basis. Email or call us for more information--or check the web site.

Skalar Systems
708 Congress Park Drive
Dayton, Ohio 45459
voice/fax 937 435 8151

http://skalarcnc.netfirms.com

[edwardmc]

I have just found a free download for
Turbo Cad Learning Edition
It a fully functional 2D cad program

http://nct.digitalriver.com/fulfill/0002.16

I'm geting ready to try it out now . the price is right

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Edward, --And anyone else who might be planning on learning CAD,

Learning CAD can be a rewarding project. It can also be frustrating. Probably the most frustrating part about learning CAD is trying to RELEARN CAD. This happens when one gets proficient with a CAD program and then changes brands. One will notice those who have been using a particular CAD program will always use the program they are most proficient with using. They know where the commands are, they know how to manipulate the parts and they don't have to open the help files to do standard operations.

My point here is once you START getting familiar with how to "do CAD", pick a program, get a version powerful enough to do more than you need and stay with it. It is counter productive and maddening to quote a project knowing you will need to learn how to draw the project and write code for your tool and be in the "I have to get this done and I don't know how" mode all at once.

Another thing to do is be sure and buy a 'standard' CAD program. One wants an acquaintance with the same program they can call/write and get an answer. The forums the CAD programs have set up do a great job on this but it is sometimes handy to know someone who speaks in a language you can understand to tell you how or show you how to do a drawing or setup a project.

TurboCAD is a product used by many ShopBot owners. They are also selling an integrated CAM package that looks interesting. Many are beginning to use RHINO. AutoCAD is an industry standard. There are many other good programs. Some are better suited for one type work than another. Almost all will do the job.

BTW, many CAD programs can be found "at deep discount" on Ebay.

Ron Brown - rgbrown@itexas.net (mailto:rgbrown@itexas.net)

"I don't know what weapons World War Three will be fought with, but World
War four will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein

[edwardmc]

I know you are right about one program being better at some things and another program at some thing else. I have been using tubro cad 7 and have had good luck so far. But I was quite suprised at how good this turbo cad lerning edition is. And for some one with a limeted cash flow this is a way for them to have a program at no cost. Short of the 3d it does eveything my turbo cad 7 will. As I'm still new at all of this I wont go so far as to say it well do every thing one may want to do. It is a good program and like I said the cost is right. Take a look at it all it takes is the time to download.

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Edward,

You are right in several things. First, you are correct, free is a good price. It is compatible and similar to all the TurboCAD products. And many of us do not have a "Cash Flow" problem. The problem it is a one way flow - out. And, it is difficult to maintain the other direction of cash flow.

I am a real big fan of "do it inexpensivly". I use surplus switches, motors, vacuum pumps and many of my bits are replaceable insert that cost me less than a dollar to get a fresh edge. I use a diamond hone to hand sharpen my bits to finish a job and to 'touch them up' between sharpenings. I just designed a switch to cut off my tool when the dust collector clogs. The cost was $1.25 and some 'shop scraps'.

But, there are times when it is necessary to upgrade to better stuff.


Ron Brown - rgbrown@itexas.net (mailto:rgbrown@itexas.net)

"There were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded." - Diana, Princess of Wales.

[gerald_d]

Most free CAD programs are 2D - they only handle things in x,y coordinates as on flat paper. The ShopBot moves in 3D - x,y,z. Therefore I suggest to get familiar with a CAD program that can handle simple 3D. In other words, do not fall for a freebie if it cannot be upgraded to 3D within your budget!

[edwardmc]

Ron or Gerald or for that matter any one.
As I said I'm very new at all of this I have operated CNC tool's but have never had to do more then run the program,change tooling, and set offset's so the programing is all new to me. So I have spent a lot of time reading this forum and have found many helpful post's. As the post by Ron V on picking up where you have a broken bit.

But I have never found how one would draw in tabs to the last pass of the router bit. As I said
I'm using Turbo Cad 7 which will do 3d. And if you have any Idea's I would love to here them.

My reason for downloading the Turbo Cad Learning Edition which is ver.4 professional was to see if I could speed up my learning curve. And it has helped me with several points. But as you have said it dose not have the 3d ability. So it has not been able to help in the tabing problem .

[gerald_d]

Edward, please send me a dxf file of the typical parts that you cut and then I can give you better suggestions. My e-mail is mechtron@iafrica.com (mailto:mechtron@iafrica.com)

[gerald_d]

Edward, I am home now, could you view the file I mailed back to you?

[RonV]

Edward you want a training cd?
Ron V