Extruding 2D into 3D for less than $500 ????

[flyboy]

Looking for poorman's ArtCam. Does it exist?

[signguy]

Yes but there is a learning curve
there a many inexpensive 3d modeler packages
that can create 3ds or dxf files and thay can be milled with millwizard or Rams

[gerald_d]

Hi Tom, the title that you picked for this thread puts all sorts of images in my mind. Extruding 2D into 3D could be something as simple as using a long cutter running around a 2D profile in the XY plane and then you would get the effect that the part is extruded in the Z-direction. But this doesn't sound like something that you would be willing to spend close to $500 on!

The guess is that you have a 2D profile in the YZ plane and that you want to extrude it along the X-direction (eg. aircraft wing) and then want to cut it with a ball-nose cutter.

Could you tell us a little more about this "extrusion"? What CAD program are you familiar with?

[billp]

Tom, you can go a long way with Millwizard ($250), but first you have to get your file into either a 3DS, 3D DXF, or Stl format. Rhino seems to be the program many people like because it can do the conversion, and also let you manipulate images. If you look around you can find earlier versions of it on the online auction sites pretty reasonably.
Best part is that is already has a Shopbot postprocessor built in, so you can generate a .sbp file with no extra software.
This is one reason we're hoping to have a tutorial session on Rhino down at the Jamboree. Millwizard is so straight forward that you can learn how to run it from their website demo page (www.millwizard.com).

[flyboy]

Oooops, I should have said it differently. I meant the function that ArtCam can take a bmp or jpeg I guess and then make a 3d piece out of it very easily. In a way like the tiff converter but much more sophisticated. I am buying millwizard but would like a way to "emboss" a 2d image like ArtCam does. I can painstakinly create most things in Rhino but like the idea of ArtCam. I just don't have a few grand yet.

[flyboy]

More info on that. My friend is a carpenter and does a ot of custom work. I can get his business if I can quickly convert 2d complex images into 3d wood molding for use as trim features and customer designd mongraphs ect.. Rich people like that kind of thing I guess. I ain't one. It will be things like flowers and nature scenes, grapes in a basket - you know. Pretty time intensive in standard Cad. I need ArtCam but can't afford it - could afford it I just HAD it for a month or two. Visious cycle of my poverty you see, catch 22, ect.. that's manufacturing
Mabey I'll ask them if I can rent it.
I'll free up some space on the credit card I guess.

[rams@pgtv.net]

Tom
Rhino 3d (http://www.rhino3d.com)will convert a bmp ar tiff image into a 3d relief with about 6 mouse clicks ..cost $895.00.
Use a CAM program that will import a stl or Rhino file to add the toolpath. RAMS works great for this... cost $995.00.(http://www.rams3d.com)

[flyboy]

RE: Rhino 3d (http://www.rhino3d.com)will convert a bmp ar tiff image into a 3d relief with about 6 mouse clicks

How do you do it in Rhino?

[david@rams3d.com]

To convert a bmp to 3d in Rhino click on "Surface" in the top menu, select Heightfield from bitmap.
Find your bmp, tiff, etc file, click Open,left mouse click in the upper corner of where you want the 3d to start and drag to the desire size. Left mouse click to set. Rhino will keep it in porpotion. The next window will ask you the resolution (number of sample points). Start at 100 in each of the first 2 boxes. Set the height at something like .25. You will now have a 3d image you can save as a stl or 3dm and use in your favorite CAM software like RAMS.

[signguy]

Bryce 3d will convert a grayscale map using the terrain editor it will export 3ds dxf and 8 other formats
4 mouseclicks with export preview
and polygon reduction slider

making grayscale maps another story

[signguy]

Bryce also has a render option called distance mask which will turn 3d objects into a grayscale map

[sales@bitcam.com]

Look at www.bitcam.com

[jimmythethief]

What about this stuff...I'm very new to the scene so...I don't know very much about whats good and whats not, but they seem to have some interesting offerrings for pretty cheap. http://www.deskam.com/

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Erik,

CAD and CAM programs are like horses. Each of us has our favorites and some are better at certain chores than others. One does not get a plow horse for working cattle or a race horse for plowing. And, even in individual chores we would still have personal favorites. And one familiar with their horse can sometimes do certain tasks even when there night be a better tool for the job. And, the familiar horse doesn't surprise one with unexpected actions and you spend more time in the saddle and less trying to figure the horse out.

When one has a horse they care to sell, they will get a great rider and put it in the show ring and ask far more than it is worth. Only when one gets the horse home will they realize it might not be suited for the task.

But, when raw stuff is fed to a horse or CAD/CAM it is difficult for the average observer to distinguish the end result between one processor or the other.

Try a few CAD/CAM programs before you settle on one. Try to get one that suits the chore and your temperament. Learn the program. Others may have taken other programs and brag on them but, we all know if you put the right data in the front end, the stuff coming out will look just the same unless one cares to pick through it.

Ron Brown
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers

[gerald_d]

". . . . when raw stuff is fed to a horse . . . . . . the stuff coming out will look just the same unless one cares to pick through it."

Enter, the dung beetle.

[kerrazy]

Interpretaion of Socretes above...
many Cad/Cam programs even the expensive ones offer a free evaluation period of 30 days or more. Try and experience as many as possible to see which ones can be used most easily by you. With people who have a Cad/Cam background like AutoCad, then masterCam or Rhino/ mill wizard may be what you are looking for. If yoou have a Graphic background and you are familiar with programs like Corel Draw or Adobe illistrator than programs like artCam or ProfileLab will suit you.

Try them all knowing at the end of a telephone there is always great support especially if you have demo version as they want to imprees the hell out of you and show you that their product does what you want it to do.

Layman
Dale

PS Ron, what sort of horse are you using?

[gerald_d]

The best CAD/CAM system, without a doubt, and nobody should argue with me, definitely the most optimal, yeah the very best . . . . . . . .has to meet two essential requirements:

1. The evaluation period must be MUCH longer than 30 days. None of us have the luxury of finding 30 days of free time to play with a program. *would the official suppliers please plug their ears for the next part* Get/borrow/steal a full-featured package from someone for evaluation and pay the full price when you like it.

2. The guy that you borrow the program from, must be willing to hold your hand in the evenings and on the weekends and drive you through the learning curve.

Practically all CAD/CAM packages will be fine for you, provided that you bite the bullet and get past the learning curve.

Don't think of changing packages before you FULLY understand the first one. This is particularly true for the freeware that comes with the SB - don't give up on the freeware because you think it is something cheap and nasty that has been bundled with the SB like other computer hardware suppliers often do.

Having said that, it looks as if DesKAM only concentrates on the CAM side and assumes you already have CAD?

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Dale,

I'm a large fellow and ride a Rhino. The bridle I use to control it's actions in called Vector.

BTW - I just got a notice Vector is to V9.5 and has a pre-release price "upgrade" of $300. From the fancy poop sheets, it looks like a REAL upgrade.

I'm afraid Gerald may be right about evaluating software. I know I have cursed enough programs to never grace the Pearly Gates if cursing a monitor is a non-pardonable sin. Learning is a lot easier if you have someone to help you translate the manual until you get the hang of it.

Ron

[kerrazy]

Gerald, once again, Well said!!!

[artisan]

I too ride a Rhino. It seems to be the best 3D tool for the money by a LONG shot. I am currently testing Inovate... a drag and drop 3D tool from Ironcad. http://www.ironcad.com/default.asp?URL=/sales/trialdownload.asp It costs around 500.00 and looks pretty promising. It also has a 60 day trial of the FULL operational version....D

[johnandrhondawebb@netzero.net]

Visual Mill 4.0 is on sale now for $995, normally $2K ($550 for VM Basic). I ordered it because it works with programs I already know from my dayjob (Rhino, CorelDraw, Canoma).

What caught my eye was version 5.0 (to be released in August) has V-carving built in, imports Rhino 3dm direct, plus it has SB & SB G-Code post processors available for download.

Canoma converts most bitmap formats to 3D DXF, which are directly imported into VM. Yeah, it's a lotta programs, but with access, it was a lot less than the $7500 they're asking for ArtCAM.

I ordered VM from Campbell Designs (http://www.campbelldesigns.com/visualmill.htm), because he had 2 copies left which were upgradeable to V5 for $500. Normal upgrade would be $995.

[gerald_d]

What happened to TurboCadCam (http://www.turbocadcam.com)? Does any SB'er use it? I thought that it had a very good chance of success because it was based on a very popular CAD package.

Should we revive this thread (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/27/818.html?) again?

[toys]

I don't think TurboCadCam has much utility for a ShopBot since it dosn't have a method to generated shopbot code. So your limited to shopbots ux command for converting the files. So you probably would have to explode all arc's circles ect.

[gerald_d]

TurboCadCam has (had?) a facility for a user to write a "post-processor" so that it would output any machine code. But, even the forum on TurboCadCam seems to have disappeared?

[artisan]

IMSI has a peculiar way with their software. Often the different versions of Turbocad are not backwards compatible with each other and now TurboCadCam http://www.turbocadcam.com/ seems to be a stepchild with it's own site....but it's not listed in the IMSI product line on their main site. The price has plummeted from 1950.00 to under 400.00 in just a year as well. I'd be very skeptical of investing in it now....D

[charles48]

Do any Shopbotters have experience with DesignCad by Upperspace? I have learned both the 2D and 3D program. I am interested in getting a Shopbot and software to convert my drawings into tool paths.

[beacon14]

I use DesignCad 2D almost exclusively to create parts and shapes, and then either use the dxf converter in the ShopBot software, or use PartWizard to create a toolpath. Part Wizard will take your dxf file from DesignCad and profile, pocket, trace vectors, offset for tool diameter, mind cutting direction, etc. and then output a ShopBot file directly.
What I'm getting at is that DesignCad, PartWizard, and ShopBot work pretty much seamlessly together for 2D work. I can't vouch for 3D work as it's out of my area of expertise, but I know of at least a couple of other ShopBotters who use DesignCad.
E-mail me if you have more specific questions

[harold_weber]

Here's an addition to what David has said. I've created both 2D and 3D part files starting with Design CAD.

Been using Design CAD since 1989, much more so since I bought a ShopBot. Can't say this is the best CAD program, I use it because I know how to use it. Their tech support has always been prompt and helpful.

You export from Design CAD to a .dxf file. Chris Burns (ShopBot guru) told me to use Version 13 of .dxf format, so select this when this window comes up. Not sure Version 13 format is necessary, but it works 4 me. As David says, this will get your 2D files into Part Wizard, which will create the tool path for you. Never had any problems here.

To get 3D cut files, the following works for me:

1. Draw 3D part in Design CAD.
2. Export as .dxf file
3. Convert to .stl file using Accutrans (a very inexpensive file converter).
4. Import .stl file into Mill Wizard, which creates the cut file for you. A note here: Mill Wizard will import .dxf files directly which led me to believe that I could get to Mill Wizard directly from Design CAD. This did not work. After some questions to tech support, found that there are several versions of .dxf files, and the .dxf files that Design CAD exports are not what Mill Wizard wants. Step 3 takes care of this, and was suggested by the Design CAD folks.

Steps 3 and 4 can be done using the free trial version of Accutrans and Mill Wizard, but you cannot save the Mill Wizard cut file with the trial version. However, Mill Wizard has a simulator which will let you see what the cut part will look like.

To totally convince myself that all this would work, I found a very kind and generous 'botter who cut a test 3D file for me in styrofoam. Ordered my ShopBot within a month after this.

Haven't been sorry.

[charles48]

David & Harold
Thanks for all your info. Above and beyond the call of duty and very interesting.
Charlie

[artisan]

Just an addendum out of fairness to an earlier post here and some disparaging remarks I made about TurboCadCam. It seems that IMSI has released an updated version and is going to stay the course with the product. I've yet to try it, but it looks a little more promising....and still inexpensive. Here's a new review (http://www.tenlinks.com/NEWS/PR/IMSI/112403_award.htm)....D