View Full Version : Converting a bit mapped image?
gordon@eoni.com
03-29-1999, 06:26 PM
I'm new to the shopbot. I can manipulate and cut different fonts. What I'd like to do is convert a bit mapped logo into a usable format. I can open it in turbo cad but when I save it in dxf format, I get nothing. Can anyone help?
Thanks,
G Gordon
bruce_clark
03-29-1999, 11:47 PM
G. Gordon:
If you have the new software and have tried the
'FC' command, you might notice a few options for
file conversion. One of these is a TIFF file
converter (called Tiff2Sbp). Now, ShopBot has
not put them in the beta software release, but if
you ask Gordon or Ted, they will probably email
you a copy.
If not, I will be happy to send you a copy, but I
first have to have permission from ShopBot. If
they send me an OK, I will send you the most
recent version.
Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)
Ted Hall, ShopBot
03-31-1999, 02:55 PM
We're happy to send out copies of the converters. We didn't package them with the beta just to keep the download file small, but we'll also make them available for download here shortly.
Argyle2@concentric.net
04-13-1999, 08:37 PM
Don't forget to convert into vector format within
your cad package before saving and converting to dxf. Then you can convert to ShopBot format. I sometimes forget to do this on certain occasions and end up with no lines when I look at the preview window in SB. (I use DesignCad).
arthur_ross
06-02-1999, 11:14 AM
I lost the site address where a gent had made a great looking unicorn plaque with shaded parts. Anybody remember?
Thanks!
Arthur Ross
bruce_clark
06-02-1999, 11:22 PM
Arthur,
I think Bob Neitzke had those pictures displayed
at his Birds of Play website, but I don't know
if he still have them up or not. I probably have
pictures of those if you need them (and original
artwork), but I believe the rights to them are
still held by Alton Johnson.
Email me, and I will send you the images.
Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)
birdsofplay
06-03-1999, 08:50 PM
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/famcrest.htm
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/sbpix.htm
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/sbpics.htm
http://www.birdsofplay.com/sbpix/sbmod.htm
If these arent correct ( if memory does NOT serve me ) then let me know !
hope this helps
Bob
Has anyone thought of doing a disk with for example how to use coreldraw/sb for beginners to pro's. Some of you out there seem to be experts at all the software stuff where as I don't have time to get into the software because of other commitments. I know that I would be so pleased for someone to show me how to do stuff without having to learn the hard way. It may sound lazy but I just don't have the time to spend making mistakes. I will gladly share any knowledge I gain over the next few years !!! If anyone uses Engravelab I will help if I can.
I've written a simplified instruction packet on how to use the Shopbot in conjunction with CASmate and Enroute. If anyone is interested in seeing this, I'd gladly send them a copy. I wrote it to help the next opperator after I leave, so it is pretty basic but it hits on some more advanced topics.
Cory Ryan
Artisan Goods - Soon to be partners in Strawhouse Studios
kenfox@aros.net
08-18-1999, 12:47 AM
Relating to image conversion(bitmap and vector), is anyone using a program called ARTCAD. I just received a brochure. It looks great but I am wondering about price (they didn't include the price in their literature)and if it can be used in conjunction with the shopbot. What other programs are being used out there - what would you recommend to get the most out of this sb.
kenfox@aros.net
08-18-1999, 09:55 PM
Nevermind on the ARTCad question. It is 7,000 + (I talked to the rep today). Not for me!
bruce_clark
08-19-1999, 11:09 AM
Kenfox:
You should have gotten a program called tiff2sbp
or something similar to that when you purchased
your ShopBot (if not, ask them for it). It
basically has the same 'type' of functionality as
Artcam, but is a LOT cheaper.
Visit some of the links above at the "Birds of
Play" website to see examples of work this
program can do. Also feel free to email me any
questions you can think of. I will be more than
happy to help out.
Bruce Clark
bwclark@centuryinter.net (mailto:bwclark@centuryinter.net)
hwcorian@gateway.net
02-19-2000, 02:13 PM
I am drawing in AutoCad, exporting as a .dxf and then using the sb converter. I am loosing a lot of the lines between conversions. I've had my machine working about 2 weeks to with no avail. I was a ble to cut the shopbot logo but with some dificulty.
Any suggestions?
SaintjohnBosco@yahoo.com
02-19-2000, 08:33 PM
Harry, not all of the line types are supported by sb. If you select your lines and then use the explode function to break them down to their smallest unit (a basic line). I had the same trouble in turbocad until I learned which lines were acceptable.
syp@earthlink.net
02-19-2000, 11:11 PM
save your autocad drawing to a rel. 12 autocad .dxf file. the release 12 .dxf files seems to convert correctly when the rel. 13 or rel. 14 .dxf files do not. don't know why?
cwho@mountainmax.net
03-06-2000, 08:19 PM
AutoCAd is a real booger on its translations. Despite the fact they say DXF has is universally convertable it really is not. We have messed arround with converters ranging from free to $500 and none of them keep up with the changes in DWG and DXF. Unless you love Autocad as a solution for drawing I would not recomend it as a front end to shopbot.
Are you trying to create tool paths in Autocad or trying to create parts. We have been looking at Deskproto to do 3 axis milling. It will generate tool paths from 3D forms that are drawn in other programs like autocad. The Fanuc G code translates very well to shopbot with the shoobbot converter.
If you are trying to draw tool paths I have had a good deal of sucees importing DXF files into Vector. Vector will do the tool up and tool down quite easilly which saves some monkeying arround in the Cad program. Also it gives you a good preview of what is going to happen when you cut. (Actually a much better idea than the 2D shobbot preview). To my knowlege, vector will not do tool offsets (someone let me know if it does) so you should do this in autocad or your cad program first.
Good luck
Charles
LGM
imserv@vectorcam.com
03-22-2000, 02:24 PM
My bi-annual contribution ;-) Hi everybody
Vector will do tool offsets from contours in 3D, pockets, Z level roughing of outlines and contours in 3D, wrap cylinder for rotary cutting of contours, and the Stacker-"Poor Man's Nester" for flat sheet layouts of multiple parts.
Vector is an excellent drawing program in it's own right, and should be viewed as a complete Cad-Cam solution for 2 axis work, and a good entry level program for 3D contouring and surfacing.
It also posts directly into Shopbot Code, without any need for translation steps along the way.
Best Regards,
Fred Smith
IMService
ROYALCE@CARIBE.NET
03-30-2000, 12:45 PM
I HAVE USE AUTOCAD TO WORK IN THE SB AND FOR ME IS WORKING IN 2D PLAN BUT I REALY WANT TO USED FOR A 3D CUTS AND IS NOT WORKING . I BUY THE VECTOR AND THAT SOFWEAR IS TO DIFICULT TO WORK . I REALY SORRY TO BY THIS.
djhazeleger@mindspring.com
05-08-2000, 04:49 PM
I've been having problems getting the tiff converter to work. I used Micrografix Picture Publisher to convert the image to greyscale then I saved it as a tif file. I then ran the tiff converter. It told me I had 0 levels of grey, and finaly gave a divide by zero error. Am I converting the image incorrectly? Does anyone have any pointers?
Thanks Dirk
birdsofplay
05-08-2000, 06:57 PM
I use Paint Shop Pro 6.0.
There are free demos available on the net.
Try www.tucows.com or similar.
After converting to greyscale,
You need to set the color depth to 8 bit
ie. 250 levels of grey
Save the tif in a "non compressed form".
sometimes paint programs have "options" settings
that are "less than obvious", look for them.
Reduce the resolution to something that the converter will work with.
This is kinda "interesting" to get the "scale" of your piece "where you want it", but after you figure it out it works just fine.
If all else fails ask Bruce Clark, it's his baby :-)
I've had some good luck on ocassion, but I've kinda given up on 3d since it takes so long to process a single piece of work.
good luck.
BBoehle
10-31-2000, 07:08 PM
I am new to the shopbot world. I would like to take images I have in a silhouette book and scan them into a program, convert them and cut them on Shopbot. Does anyone have a step by step on this procedure? What additional software is needed?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bruce
RGENGRAVE@AOL.COM
10-31-2000, 11:33 PM
Bruce get with this guy he has a server that will show you how to do anything.
My husband bought a Shopbot last year and for 7 months we did not learn much on how to use it? then we came across this site and got on his server.
We learned more in 1 day then in the 7 months we had the machine, we spent 2 days at his shop and he showed us a lot of tricks, this is the guy you want to talk to, his name is Ron and you can reach him at
http://www.rngengravers.com
His email is RGENGRAVE@AOL.COM (mailto:RGENGRAVE@AOL.COM)
Nikki
davidallen
11-01-2000, 08:28 AM
1) scan the image into Corel Draw.
2) use the trace function to produce an outline
3) save the outline as a dxf file
4) import the dxf file into Vector.
5) use Vector to generate tool offset paths and ShopBot code.
6) run the code on the ShopBot.
I would have to agree with Nikki, get with Ron.
I tried Coreldraw and it is not all that good, Ron does all my files now so I don't have to buy any more high dollar software.
I tried Vector too, it is now off my computer.
Nikki did you see the new posts on the server?
Paul
birdsofplay
11-01-2000, 11:53 AM
If you cant afford Corel
( and it's trace does work pretty good )
Use the Shareware version of Paintshop PRO 6.0
to bring up your scanned-in sillhouettes.
PSP6 has a TRACE function. BUT it doesnt have a
DXF output so save as BMP.
Go get WinTOPO ( out on the net ) as it will convert your BMP files into DXF and allow you to save them.
WinTOPO also has some neato smoothing functions,
when they work (?) !
IF you are planning on doing a production run of these patterns it would probably be worth the time
to do it RIGHT in some CAD by tracing around the
outlines with Polylines or b-splines ( whatever YOUR CAD has available)
Bob I tried Wintopo and it traces ok but? you have to resize everything and you can not control the cut path.
It would be beter just to trace it by hand then spend all the time to clean it up.
I went out and bought Coreldraw 9 because everyone talked about how good it would trace? what a joke, sure it will trace but now I spend more time cleaning up the file, it took a big chunk out of my wallet and less wood out of the file.
What I should have done before I leaped is ask some corel user's to do a file I have and see what it will do first? O well live and learn.
Anyone want to buy Coreldraw 9? I have one to sell.
BBoehle
11-01-2000, 06:35 PM
Wow! What a response! Thanks to everyone. So you think it is worth the $150 to get with Ron? I will call him tomorrow and see I think. Hopefully someday we will have the ultimate ShopBot software to do everything a person could want. I don't mind spending what is needed to get the right software but the return on investment has to be there. I use VersaCad as my primary CAD program and dxf over to Vector. I too, find Vector to be quite cumbersome as a CAD program. Could be after using Vcad for 20 years any change is tough.
Thanks for all your help,
Bruce
Bruce I can only speak for myself, Ron Varela is the person to know if you have a shopbot? and I am sure there are many other's that will say the same.
I am not sure how many hours a day he works? but I do know I can call him anytime and get an answer to my questions.
He has alot of things on his server and is posting everyday.
If you take a good look at what he is doing you will see he is not in it for the money but to make 1 site that will have every answer to what it is you are trying to do.
This my friend is goldmine to anyone with a shopbot.
If you call him he will call you back on a internet phone, he will answer all your questions and never rush you,and there is no fee for this.
He only charges a 1 time fee of $150.00 so you can go to 1 site and get the info you need, but it is well worth it to me.
I have never posted to this forum, I only come here to see if I can pickup some new tricks.
I just had to post this because some of the shopbotters are now seeing what an asset Mr Varela is to shopbot.
I have been comming to this forum for 2 1/2 years and I still have a cable drive, no need for me to upgrade to a R/P because I only use my machine to cut 4 inch foam.
Ron sent me 9 sets of replacement cables and 3 extra motors and he never asked for a dime.
Any person that gets a shopbot should get to know this man, he is always there to help you.
Ron you keep up the good work and god bless you.
Robert
One last thing? Mr Allen could you explain to me how you use Coreldraw and inport it into Vector? I called Fred Smith and we could not even do it? Vector would not be my first choice for a cad program.
Kenny B Cox
11-01-2000, 08:20 PM
Ron you the man and I could not have put it better then Robert, see you on the 22nd
Kenny
Jack Martin
11-01-2000, 10:13 PM
Maybe new SB owner soon but have a few questions first.
1. What cad program would be the best to use?
2. What is raster 2 vector? is that the wintopo program? and will I need it?
3. Is rons server the only place that will explain how to do things?
I would hate to get the machine and not be able to use it right away.
I talked to bruce clark a few months back but did not get a chance to see the machine in action.
After reading most of the post on the forum I am still lost on what it will do?.
Jack Martin
Charles T
11-01-2000, 11:44 PM
Jack this forum is a little hard to follow from time to time but you will get the hang of it.
Use the search to find what you need.
1. What cad program would be the best to use?
There are many to choose from but Turbocad is more simple to use and works well, I think Shopbot is giving the cad program Vector with every machine? from what I see in the forum not many people use it, I tried it but could not figure it out, David seems to be the only one useing it or likes it?
2. What is raster 2 vector? is that the wintopo program? and will I need it?
Raster is a format most pictures are in, and Vector is what your cad program will read, this will let you be able to cut the file in dxf format.
I have used many diffrent programs in the past and have not seen any worth buying, you could take Bob's advice and buy Coreldraw and use the trace tool that comes with it, but in the end you will be better off tracing it by hand.
Wintopo is a fair program but you have no control over it and again you be better off traceing by hand.
Your best bet is to turn your picture or file into a font, I read Ron's post and tried it, I only have one thing to say about his method it works great, cut time is fast and very little editing, get with him and he will explain how to do it.
3. Is rons server the only place that will explain how to do things?
Well if you are new to cnc machines you might want to think about getting on his server, he has a good site with just about everything coverd and it is very easy to follow(I am on it).
There is one other place WWW.PCJET.COM
Not much in the way of showing how to do things?.
You might want to contact Shopbot and ask them if there are any others?.
I hope this help you in someway, If you do get a Shopbot I think you will be happy with it, you will just need to learn how it works and how you need the files to be in order to cut them.
C.T
mechtron@iafrica.com
11-02-2000, 05:11 AM
Wow . . . 10 posts on the same thread in about 24 hours! Let's see if the following analogy helps to understand RASTERS vs VECTORS;
(Before reading this, forget that there is a software package by the brand name of "Vector"!)
What you are looking at on your screen right now is a RASTER. It is a collection of equally sized dots (pixels), each of a different colour. Each dot occupies a unique position in terms of which column or row it is located. A typical screen is 960 dots wide by 720 dots high. If you want the screen (in front of you) placed onto a piece of 8'x4' ply, you can imagine the problems:
a. Each dot will occupy a space of roughly 0.1" square. These square spots will give a rough appearance because of the coarse "resolution"
b. How must the color of the dot be represented? ShopBot can only translate it as a height - so which colors must be shown how high?
VECTORS are lines (straight or curved) running smoothly from a start point to an end point. If we draw a diagonal line across the 8'X4' ply, we will lay a "ruler" down from corner to corner and simply draw a straight smooth line - a "vector".
If we tried this with raster method, we would have had to draw 960 black squares with the first one in the bottom left corner, and the next one going "one up & one right". To reach the top right corner of the ply, we must cheat occasionally and not go one up! - otherwise we would have gone 720 squares up before going 960 squares across.
So you will appreciate that RASTERS are only an approximation, in little chunks, of smooth information VECTORS.
If you are creating your own designs, consisting mainly of smooth lines, it makes sense to use VECTOR based software commonly known as CAD packages. (Again, one of these packages has the brand name "Vector" - don't get confused)
If you are scanning designs (even your own) you will get a RASTER. Scanners, digital cameras, fax machines all produce RASTERS. If your design requires color shading, you will probably be using "publishing" type software, which generally also gives a RASTER output.
ShopBot only runs on VECTOR-type information input ie. it wants to make smooth lines between defined starting and end points. Therefore if your source info is RASTER, it needs to be converted to VECTOR before ShopBot can give you smooth lines.
The conversion of colour-shaded raster information into a vector requires your artistic interpretation. Eg. do you want the dark green to cut 0.1" deeper than the light green, or 0.15", or shallower? Do you want a smooth transition between these two shades, or do you want a distinct line? At what height does pink go? Etc. etc. etc. You cannot expect any software, or an internet guru, to make these personal choices for you. Raster to vector conversion software make your choices easier, but they cannot relieve you of the whole load.
Sorry to have bored you with this long story, but I got the feeling that the abilities of packages and people were being compared without really appreciating the full depth of the problem. We are not all trying to do the same things with our ShopBots and it is unfair to generalise certain people or products as being good or bad. Your Shopbot will only be as good as your creativity, software and advisers - it is absolutely obedient and will go exactly where it is told!
Having got this off my chest . . . . who is offering a raster to vector conversion service via e-mail? Someone who will preferably accept credit card payment (wire transfers are complicated from South Africa). Please e-mail me at mechtron@iafrica.com (mailto:mechtron@iafrica.com)
birdsofplay
11-02-2000, 07:46 AM
Regading TOOLPATH:
I have discovered that with my CAD the following relationship occures ...
The order that elements are placed in CAD
IS the order that they are cut, But
sometimes the SB converter does the ARCS in reverse order ( ie CW vs CCW ) .
To make things easier I will just do a design
in whatever order that creativity demands and then
I will move everything "off the table" some distance
and then COPY everything back "IN THE ORDER THAT I WANT CUT"
Next I DELETE all the "OFF TABLE" elements.
This can be a pain for large designs, but works.
To cure the ARC reversing issues I have been chaining elements together.
It seems that either my DXF converter likes it better that way or
the SB converter does (who know/cares).
It all has to do with the "READ" sequence of elements descriptions INSIDE the CAD file.
davidallen
11-02-2000, 10:13 AM
Corel to Vector:
save the corel drawing as a dxf file. you can then import it directly into vector.
da
davidallen@iname.com
11-02-2000, 10:35 AM
Vector as CAD:
Vector isn't as intuitive as some other programs. it isn't as feature rich as SolidWorks either. it also isn't as expensive. but remember, what we're doing isn't CAD, it's CAM (computer aided machining). CAD programs don't care which line is drawn first, nor does it matter if lines don't exactly meet. when you're working with a toolpath, however, those things do matter.
I've used 6 to 8, low end CAM programs over the last few years and in the under $2000 range, Vector's the best I've seen.
there are some features of DesKam that I'd like Vector to incorporate and the user interface could use some tweaking. after 'climbing the curve' though, I can generate drawings in Vector as fast as the 2D CAD program I've used for 6 years.
da
jkforney@yahoo.com
11-02-2000, 11:20 AM
Re.. Vector as CAD:
David
Couldn't agree with you more. I use Vector exclusively since the important part of drawing to me is getting the tool path. 4 clicks of the mouse and I've got a sbp file. As far as intuitive or simple cad/cam programs, I don't think there is such a thing. Like any other tool, they all require a learning curve. Vector at times can be very frustrating but when I get the drawing right, I'm still only 4 clicks away from my sbp file.
Just my two cents.
John
billp
11-02-2000, 03:30 PM
John, Could you please list those four clicks for the rest of us? Thanks, Bill P.
BBoehle
11-02-2000, 06:26 PM
John,
I think VersaCad is very intuitive and user friendly. To add a line is A,L. To add a rectangle is A,R. Just like ShopBot. To window in, W,I etc, etc. It is limited but works great. Maybe you can enlighten me on the tricks of Vector. I currently use it for only generating the code. And yes once you have it right, four clicks will do it!
Thanks for your enthusiasm regarding ShopBot.
Thanks,
Bruce
Ellen
11-02-2000, 09:51 PM
The length of this thread is reason enough for a better solution to a compatible SB-to-Software solution. We found what worked well for ourselves (after many $$$$)and attempted to share the information on our site, however the time element was a factor in the teaching sessions coming to an end. We wish to thank all who responded to our lessons, the comments and encouragement were well received. We made many new friends through our efforts and helped many on the road to success with the SB. Continued success to all who have mastered the SB and to those who are still struggling, keep working at it. We have some new and exciting happenings coming soon to our site.
Happy Holidays to all!!!!!
J.E.T Enterprises
jkforney
11-02-2000, 10:32 PM
Bill
After my drawing is done and connected at z, Click one: Special insert nc
Click two: Select machine setup shopbot2c
Click three: Select the generate nc icon
At this point the code is generated.
Click four: File export and type in the file name and (in my sneaker net case a
destination drive.
I then have a file in native sbp code with out having to translate anything. That is the reason I bought (at retail before shopbot carried Vector) Vector Cad/Cam. I didn't want a translation between the drawing and final code.
It is important to remember that the way I do things and the way I feel comfortable may not work for others. I find Vector to be the best for my work, especially with Vfontz, Vcarve and Shopbots' support of Vector. Your mileage may vary.
In any case my new shopbot just arrive today and I hope to have the table built Saturday and the machine up and running Sunday. I sold my old machine last Saturday and have been going through withdrawl systoms since.
John
RgEngrave@aol.com
11-03-2000, 03:18 PM
I think Vector is a simple CAM program and not a simple CAD program, I would use a cad program that I new how to use and then use Vector to do the offsets and so on.
I feel most shopbotters are trying to draw in Vector and find it very hard to do, this would even make me look for another program to use.
I do not use Vector because I have other programs that do my tool path and offsets.
No matter what Cad or Cam program you use you will still have to select what is to cut first and so on, if you have 100s of lines you will have to selcet 100s of times.
There are simple tricks you can do in getting the cut depths you want, you can change the line colors to do this then just select the line and send it to the back.
Vector to sbp file is ok and so is the UX converter 2 sbp, that both work.
There will never be an easy answer to what will work best, but there will be tricks you can do to make it easy.
As to the post about my server form other shopbotters thank you for the kind words.
I setup the server to be able to store all the data I did for the last 3 years, I know that some us old timers like Bill Young, Bill Palumbo, Bruce Clark, Bob Neitzke and so on had our share of learning the machine, there was not to many shopbotters at that time that new what to do and how to do it, so we learned the hard way, 1 day at a time.
The server stores all the files on how to do things with diffrent programs, and what programs most of us use, Freeware and Shareware and links to them.
Right now there are 200 on the server and I might need to make it hold more, I never new there were so many new people that were lost on how to get started.
Now times have changed, New Shopbot machines, New Software and new ways of doing things, only thing that has not changed is how the machine will cut the file? you draw it you cut it your done? not so in todays software, you can spend 1000s of dollars for a program that will do all the work for you, or you could spend under $100.00 for a program that will do the same and take you 30 minutes longer to do? I have Coreldraw 5 to 9 and I would only use the trace program on only straight line bmp files,Coreldraw is an ok program to edit bmp, jpg, gif and others, but not to trace in, if you were to use the trace and export as a dxf you will have to do a lot of editing to clean it up, the you still have to select what is to cut first,so you spent 100s of dollars just to turn around and end up retracing the same file corel did for you.
The most simple way I found to do this is 1 at a time, you have a file that will have many diffrent depths and you need it to cut in the right order, this is how I do it and it works works for me every time.
4611
Let saw with this picture we want to
Cut out the bear
Then have the word BLACK BEAR hollowed out.
Then have Ridge raised
Then have it cut out the frame.
This would be a nightmare right? wrong it is simple to do and all in 1 file and 5 minutes of work with Turbocad and any Cam program that will do Island and hatching.
First you would draw the picture above in any cad program just the way you see it and in any order.
Now with the whole picture sized ? here are the steps.
Delete everything but the Frame , and save as FRAME.dxf
Now undo all the deletes, now delete everything but BLACK BEAR and then save as blackbear.dxf
You will do this till you have all 4 files.
FRAME
BEAR
BLACKBEAR
RIDGE
Now close out all pages and open Frame.dxf and change the color to BLACK, then save it.
Open Bear and change color to RED and save it.
Open Blackbear and change color to BLUE and save it.
Open ridge and draw a rectangle around it and make the space of it 1/4 inch or what ever the size of the router bit you will use then save.
Now open your Cam program that will do Island Hatching and open blackbear, do a hatch for the size router bit you will be useing then save as blackbear.dxf in a new folder.
Now open up Ridge.dxf and do the Hatching on that with the same router bit, and save it.
Now in your Cad program make a new page, now all you have to do is insert what you want to cut first. and your done.
All the files should be in the X,Y as you saved then, so you will not have to mave anything.
Now just convert it to a sbp files and enter the depths you want each color to cut and your done.
Total time to make this file 10 minutes, time to cut it 18x24 16 minutes.
There might be other ways to do it? but this is my way to do it with low $$$ programs and it will cut the same even if I used high $$$ programs.
Ron
Mike Agesen
11-05-2000, 11:41 AM
I am considering the purchase of a shop-bot router for our business. I currently have a small cnc mill we use to make templates for another aspect of our work. The program I use to draw dxf files is autocad lt. These files are then exported to a program called FlashcutCnc which converts them to G-code. I have experimented with Flashcut in a 4' x 8' format and seems like this is a great option for generating G-code for the Shop-bot. We purchased their software and hardware to run our mill. The thing is I don't use anything but their demo program downloadable on-line. The mill machine came with it's own dxf to g-code dos based program that did not place the cuts I wanted in the order I needed. By sending my dxf files to Flashcut, converting them and saving them using the editor program, I simply run them on the program which came with our machine. It works perfectly. The demo version will convert to g-code and allow you to preview the cut all in Windows before exporting the g-code file.The demo program will not generate any signals to run a machine. My question, is the shop-bot capable of running g-code or does this have to be converted again to a sbp. file?
RgEngrave@aol.com
11-05-2000, 02:29 PM
Mike the steps you use for FlashcutCnc will be the same steps to make a sbp.
Draw your files, save it as a dxf or g-code, then use the dxf or g-code converter that come with the sb software to make the sbp file.
I hear that Autocad Lt works with SB, I used Autocad 14 a few times and it worked.
Ron
Curt Bartel
02-18-2001, 08:43 AM
I am a new Shopbotter and I am quickly learning how to get to the finished product pretty easily, but I have one thing that I cannot figure out. I have Coreldraw and I want to take a scanned image and trace it in Corel, but I cannot figure out where the trace function is in Corel. Could someone give me the exact sequence on how to take my scanned image and be able to trace it in Corel so that I can work with it as a vector image in Corel. I have Corel draw10 and I use Vector for my Cam software. Thanks in advance.
rgengrave@aol.com
02-18-2001, 04:15 PM
Curt send me an email and I will send you the steps on how to trace with pictures.
rgengrave@aol.com (mailto:rgengrave@aol.com)
Ron
ron_cleaver
05-11-2001, 02:36 PM
I've been trying to use the TIFF converter. I'm beginning to think the images I'm trying to convert to an SBP file are not suitable.
Here's an example
4612 of an image that I converted to a JPEG file for uploading here. The TIFF file was also changed to grayscale.
When I preview the converted file, all I get is a bunch of solid white horizontal lines. I haven't tried to cut this type of file yet.
rgengraveQaol.com
05-11-2001, 04:11 PM
Ron first you want to save an image as a tiff and make sure it is uncompressed, a compressed tiff file will not work.
Next convert it to grayscale then resize it to 100x?
Now save the file with a different name so you do not ruin the original.
Now when you convert it you will see the setting you need to make.
Image is 100 X 76 by 8 bits
The resolution is 72 X 72 DPI
Determining Number of Gray Levels in TIFF File.
**********
There are 247 levels of gray in this TIFF file.
Enter Starting X coordinate (absolute Value) ? 0
Enter Starting Y coordinate (absolute Value) ? 0
Enter Safe Z axis Height ( > 0.00) ? .25
Enter Pixel Size (in inches) ? .08
Enter White Depth (minimum depth) ? 0
Enter Black Depth (maximum depth) ? -.35
Image output dimensions are 8 X 6.08 inches.
start 15:06:48
.................................................. ..........................
finished 15:06:49
You can use the settings above to try it out, you can always change the
Enter Black Depth (maximum depth) to cut deeper or less.
This should get you going?
Ron V
bwclark@centurytel.net
05-12-2001, 12:04 AM
Ron Cleaver,
Sorry I did not get back to your personal email, but I have been really busy with work.
I think you are misunderstanding what the Tiff2Shopbot converter does. It does not vectorize (trace) tiffs, it generates a machining surface (rasterizes) based on the "color" of gray. That is why you see all the white lines when you do a shopbot preview.
I think you are looking for a program like Corel trace, Adobe Streamline or a converter like Wintopo to generate the results you are looking for.
Hope this helps and sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)
ron_cleaver
05-14-2001, 10:19 AM
Bruce,
No I didn't misunderstand what the tiff2sbp converter does. I was just relunctant to try cutting a file when the preview didn't look as I expected.
I suspect I actually did the conversion correctly, by changing the file to grayscale and saving it as an uncompressed tif file, then running the converter.
I'll try cutting some files.
However, when the preview didn't seem right, I also tried playing with some of the conversion parameters and I was able to get run-time errors. I believe it was the depth and pixel size parameters, but I didn't enter any inconsistent values.
birdsofplay
05-14-2001, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure what result you are expecting.
The TIF2DXF converter does the "raster 3D" kinda thang.
Where as you are complaining about the preview.
This tells ME that you are looking to achieve
an outline/tracings for engraving.
IF SO ... then , tif2dxf is NOT what you want.
Convert to B/W , IE change the Green and Yellow and GREY to WHITE leaving hte rest black.
Next get WINTOPO or use the Corel Graphics Utilities to get "outlines" of the graphic.
Save top dxf/vector and you'll be all set.
birdsofplay
05-14-2001, 01:13 PM
See Wintopo at ...
http://www.wburrows.demon.co.uk/softsoft/wintopo/index-free.htm
ron_cleaver
05-15-2001, 07:07 AM
Bob,
Did you mean tif2sbp? That's what I'm using in the ShopBot software.
I was expecting the preview mode to show a preview of the output for any sbp file. I couldn't find anything in the documentation that indicated otherwise. I guess that's not true for this situation.
I already have WinTopo. It doesn't work very well for some raster files. I tried all the vectorization options. I sent some of the files to the vendor and they agreed that some raster files don't lend themselves to vectorization. In that case you would have to spend some time modifying the resulting vector file.
I'm familiar with raster and vector files. I'm just exploring the options for producing a cutting file and looking for the limitations of each approach. With that experience it'll be easier to decide the best way to do any job.
birdsofplay
05-15-2001, 08:04 AM
tif2sbp ... yup yup yup
You wont SEE a good preview of tif2sbp because
the lines are all parallel and the Z wont be
evident when looking at the TOP VIEW.
Kinda like looking straight down from an airplane.
You dont get much of an idea of the Lay Of The Land.
To actually SEE tif2sbp would be a real trick.
Now, there WAS a tif2dxf drifting around in the ethereal vapors at one time. If that was used an then viewed in Rhino or other "real" 3D CAD then
you could adjust the VIEW to see the Z components.
For creating that Medical Staff thang, I would
simply import it into my CAD and TRACE it.
After all, you only have to trace HALF of it, then
do a MIRROR COPY on VERTICLE AXIS.
It'd be like a half hour job at MOST.
The HOLY GRAIL of "automatic" generation has NEVER
been demonstrated. My Dino projects could have used the help, but I NEVER got satisfactory results.
ron_cleaver
05-18-2001, 01:47 PM
I was right. I did everything correctly in preparing the files for tif2sbp. I was impressed with the results, although in one case the resulting file was about 103k lines and took about 75 minutes to cut. In that case it would be worthwhile to trace it, if you plan on cutting it more than once.
I also noticed it seems to be better to run the conversion outside of the ShopBot software. I got no run-time errors doing it that way. I suspect it's because the conversion program has more memory available to it.
The image I uploaded above (cadeuceus) took about 15 minutes to cut. Because it has a black background, the resulting image is raised. Nice effect!
I used a 90 degree v-bit with a 1/2" width. But I would think a 45 or 60 degree v-bit with a smaller diameter would do better. Anyone got any experience with this?
bruce_clark
05-18-2001, 11:49 PM
Mr. Cleaver,
Glad it worked out for you. Yes, you have found the downside to doing 3D work. It takes TIME!
As for bits, ball end mills are good for surface contours (like topographic maps). They also help "smooth" or average out areas because of the cutter overlap.
For crisper detail, as you have found, a V-bit works best.
Bruce Clark
Gerald D
05-26-2001, 02:59 AM
Help with conversion to .dxf requested.
Our country has a new Coat of Arms and there is an opportunity for cutting wooden “blanks” to be hand-finished by traditional carvers. A carver who has been asked to do chair backrests in the parliament’s formal dining room has approached us.
The original design and artwork was done with “Freehand” on a Mac by an advertising agency. We have been promised a copy of that file, but we would have no facility to do anything with it. The best examples of the artwork in the public domain are in jpg ( http://www.gov.za/symbols/coatofarms.htm) and gif ( http://www.fotw.ca/flags/za)coa.html) format. (click on blue to view!)
Could anybody please help to generate the outlines in .dxf form? Yes, this is a "tracing" excercise but we would value your input regarding the quality of our source material. Also, some of you have software that can output .dxf and this would save us a lot of time if we only have to do the touch-ups.
We are comfortable with AutoCad and Vector, but we have avoided the “arty” (raster) stuff until now. Let us know if the Freehand file would help. We were also sent a 1.4MB .tif file, but the resolution looked poor (maybe it was the way we read it?)
Our e-mail address: mechtron@iafrica.com
Thanks
Gerald & Sean Dorrington
danhamm@abccom.bc.ca
05-26-2001, 02:00 PM
Gerald,
I would imagine this being on the back of a chair that the size would be approx. 12 x 14 in.
Probably a hardwood panel, there are 4 ways to go
with this 3d raster or contour, 21/2d profile with active background, 21/2d profile only, or 21/2d with active foreground, the way that I would do it is profile with active foreground.
It would only take 1 bit no changes and take about
7 to 10 min per panel..
Take a look at some engraved stuff on my website
to get and idea of the way to go.
they are large files so you can see the detail..
Dan
WWW.burningimpressions.ca/signs
danhamm@abccom.bc.ca
05-27-2001, 02:30 PM
This is a postscript to the above,
Gerald sent me the tiff file of his coat of arms,
it was the same pic as his jpg and gif above,
I made a cut file from the pic. and sent it to
him, I cut it at highest speed just to see how it would look, Gerald didn't seem to like the file,
I thought it had posiblities, it is 12in. by 14in.
I put a pic of it on my website.
If you are curios take a look..
www.burningimpressions.ca/signs/arms.jpg
Gerald D
05-27-2001, 03:35 PM
Hi Dan
Sorry if there was a potential misunderstanding about "not liking the file". My point is simply that my source material (tif, jpeg, gif) is not good enough to produce a better result. As I have indicated, I am trying to make direct contact with the original designer to get the best resolution available.
Maybe I must explain a bit more where these chairs are to be used. Our parliament is the equivalent of your Senate or Congress, where our State President holds court. You may in the future see a press conference on ABC/NBC/etc. with president Bush sitting on one of these chairs. So this has to be an absolutely top quality job made with the best material/information available.
rgengrave@aol.com
05-27-2001, 09:35 PM
Gerald I send you a dxf file of the Crest, let me know if it will work for you?
Ron
Gerald D
05-28-2001, 01:56 AM
Dan,
Oops, I realised too late that you are a Canadian and I know nothing about your government system, TV networks or President/Prime Minister. Sorry.
Ron,
I have replied to your mail already.
Guys, thanks for all your great effort, we are learning a lot in this process. Off to Europe within a few hours, see you in about 2 weeks.
djhazeleger@mindspring.com
08-12-2001, 09:51 PM
Is anyone using one of the newer professional HP scanners that convert line art scans to vector images internally? I heard it really works well.
ilvjc4ever@yahoo.com
05-20-2002, 05:26 PM
I have tryed to convert versa cad files to dxf and am able to convert but nothing is there.
can you help???
grant@shopbottools.com
05-21-2002, 05:03 PM
I am not familiar with versa-cad, but surely it has options for some sort of .dxf export option. What other file types will it save as?
danhamm@abccom.bc.ca
05-21-2002, 08:02 PM
I had the same thing happen when corel-10
first came out I would make a file save as dxf.
then try to look at it in autocad or signlab vector and the file would open but nothing would be there ...I thought hidden lines and a variety
of things but to no avail.. the dxf file was made
and it had size.. but wouldn't display in any cad
program.."""I don't know what the problem was""
I loaded corel on another computer it worked..
I uninstalled corel on that computer and reinstalled and it worked...???
gordon@shopbottools.com
05-22-2002, 12:50 AM
AHS, email me a copy of a DXF file that you've saved out of Versa-CAD and I'll look at it. It has been long time since I've used it and can't recall if there were any issues with their DXF filter. Include what version of Versa-CAD you are using.
Dan, There is a known problem with the DXF Export Filter in Corel10. I've spoken with their tech support people and have a fix that I can send you. We'll also have it up on the on our website for download soon. Once loading a Service Pack upgrade and some other system files the problems go away. Send me an email and let me know if you still need this, it is a large download or I can send information on how to download it.
Gerald, there are several Raster to Vector converters on the market that all work with fairly good results, but will require some time cleaning up the lines to make them smooth and get rid of some of the anomalies that are generated. Some of the more well know converters are: TurboCAD, TurboTrace; CorelDraw, Corel OCR Trace; WinTopo; Vector, has a new one coming out that I haven't tried yet, RasterFratz; And, there a some design programs that have this feature built right into it, such as: ProfileLAB and ArtCAM. There are more on the market, but I haven't had enough experience with any of them to recommend them. The other solution that you touche upon is bringing the bitmap (tif) image into a program like Vector and use the drawing tools to trace it by hand. Sometimes this method is a lot easier than cleaning up the results of a conversion program.
Dirk, we (ShopBot) will check out the HP Pro scanner software that you mentioned. This may be the easiest solution for those producing original art by hand or working with a drawing from a customer.
imserv@imsrv.com
05-22-2002, 06:06 PM
"a new one coming out that I haven't tried yet, RasterFratz"
RasterFratz is released. Works well on color and grayscale images, also scans directly.
imsrv.com
shuttle
07-01-2002, 01:12 PM
have done a conversion of a steel railing detail in RasterFratz.
The smoothing (lines) feature works very well.
The Shopbot file is at the ftp site (it is over 20k zipped)
shuttle
07-01-2002, 01:16 PM
4613
The file cuts the pieces at about 20" high right bottom axis.
There are a few unnecessary up and down moves, I havent quite got a grasp on the "chain" commands in Vector yet.
bwoodgraphics@gdinet.com
10-30-2002, 10:29 PM
I need some suggestions on how to get some small letters carved onto a small box.
I know how to do the tiff2sbp conversion and have used it to carve my business card on wood, by first scanning the card, sizing it 4 times bigger and then export as .tif ,then tiff2sbp and that worked great.
What I would like to do and I cannot seem to get it to work is to:
1) write the letters in corel(black letters)no other colors(2 shades of gray, right?)
2) export it as a tiff
3) tiff2sbp
4) route the wood
This would eliminate the many shades of gray?
the problems I have are
1) The first time I exported the .tif in Corel, I forgot to change it to grayscale. I did the conversion and it all went through but wasn't the program that was expected. I realized I forgot to change to grayscale in the export.
2) after exporting it again, this time in 8-bit grayscale instead of 32-bit color, it wouldn't take the program in tiff2.sbp
3) trying 2) up above again, it did work to do the conversion, however, when running the program in preview mode, the page size started correct, but eventually the y-axis went way below 0, down to -23.
4) Finally I just took the original Corel drawing , printed it and scanned, converted it and everything seems fine.
Is there a way to send the corel drawing to the tiff2sbp without having to scan it?
My idea would be to draw with just the black letters, leaving the grayscale 2 just two shades, black letters with a white background, causing the letters to be the only thing that goes below z=0. After scanning the picture I still had 239 shades of gray which would probably give more of a sandblasted look instead of crispcut small letters.
I know it will take a lot of time to cut this, but I only have to make one of these and want to know if it can be done this way.
Why go thru the trouble of using the whole tiff file sequence just to carve letters?
If you create the lettering in corel, just export as .dxf and convert the dxf file in the shopbot converter and cut that. No worries about how many shades of gray and it will cut way quicker than a converted tiff.
Curt Bartel
11-03-2002, 09:04 AM
Mayo,
I know that I could do the dxf to shopbot conversion, just was playing around with the tif2shopbot converter and wanted to see if it could be done this way.
Too much time on my hands that day I guess.
swimsNOSPAM@mindspring.com
11-05-2002, 07:32 AM
You aren't going to get a crisp look going that route, but here's some tips how to do it:
In Corel PhotoPaint change the mode of the image you want to a one bit black and white image and then save the file. From the saved file now change the mode back to an 8 bit b & w. Remember to resample the image at a scale and dpi that makes sense for your output.
When you use the tiff to shopbot converter, make sure that the pixel size matches your dpi if you want to have the same size output as above. If you want even more control, open the sbp file in Vector by using the shopbot to g code import.
ron_cleaver
11-05-2002, 10:41 AM
IMO it takes much too long to cut a tif file that's been converted.
I like to use Corel to convert it to a dxf file, then either convert the dxf file or load it into Vector (perhaps modifying it) and create a cut file from there.
david@thecarpentershelper.com
11-06-2002, 01:45 PM
Well gotta put in my two cents the tiff converter is a great tool, I use it alot and if you want some nice images then you have to take the time. the following sign is 4'x3' and the wolf image was done on maple it is about 18" tall the "Bot" took right at 1 hour to do the image and about 15min to do the rest of the sign altogether I have about four hours in to it total sold for $1,100.00
4614
sheldon@dingwallguitars.com
11-06-2002, 06:23 PM
David,
That's a great looking sign. What were the steps for the wolf?
rookie432
11-07-2002, 01:43 PM
I agree with Sheldon,
I would definetely like to know your cutting steps to get such a detailed image in maple.oak etc without getting furry cuts
Bill
david@thecarpentershelper.com
11-07-2002, 08:00 PM
Ok Guys here they are
1 scan image. 2.convert to greyscale. 3.ajust brightness and contrast for greatest contrast between dark and light. this is very important and it will take a little practice to do properly.4. then keep your image at a resolution of about 230-to-250 pixels this is also inportant.5.then resize the image to the size that you are going to cut in for the SIZE of The PIXELS. This image was lets say done on a 11 1/2 " inch board for the height, take 11.5 divide by .025 you get 460 this then becomes the pixel sixe you resize the image to on you program that you are using to convert your image I use Paint Shop Pro % because it is so easy. then save as an uncompressed tiff and then open it in shopbot fc comand. 6. I use a 1/4 inch 45 degree bit, zup safe is set at .125 then lightest color set at .001 this keeps the bit from scratching the very top of the wood where the lightest or the white in your photo is, the darkest or #7 color is set to -.03 this allows the v-bit to go to a depth that will make the tops of the v cuts touch (vvvv) 7. when the tiff converter call for you to enter the pixel size you enter the .025 that you used to resize your image check to make sure the converter givs you the right final size that you want the pic to be just watch the screen. run the program I sometimes run on a scrape of pine first just to play it safe. 8. Now the trickiest part after you stain it alow it to dry for about 5 min. or so then sand with 80 or 100 grit, as you sand it keep blowing of the brown dust with an air gun at about 100 psi so you can see how the image is coming out at the point that you think you ar going to loose the image blow it again with the air gun real close. the other trick is to keep the background of the photo free from any designs in other words have a white background. if you have to edit the photo to remove back ground just use the magnifier in you photo editing software and use the erase tool, be careful around the image and do that area slow. Hope this is understandable. here is the greyscale of my wolf. and he really was my wolf but sad to say he got ran over about 9 years ago.
4615
david2thecarpentershelper.com
11-07-2002, 08:23 PM
I forgot to tell you that when you resize your photo the pixel size that is the 460 in the example up above is entered in the height section of your resize screen that way you ajust the height and the computer sizes the ratio of the length keep your "maitain aspect ratio" box checked. David in Thermopolis Wyoming. My Shop is The Carpenters Helper, for the lord Jesus Christ is the Master Carpenter and I just try to Help. May God bless all of you and cause you to prosper.
david@thecarpentershelper.com
11-07-2002, 08:35 PM
To Bill Jarvis, and anyone else.
Don't use dark woods like oak not even golden oak as they don't do as well use maple, Birtch, Ash or any really light collored wood or birtch Plywood. test and try on MDO or pine they are cheep Just on the MDO use spray paint rather than stain as the stain will migrate in the fibers of the MDO. Dave in Wyoming
sheldon@dingwallguitars.com
11-08-2002, 10:47 AM
Thanks David for the detailed response.
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