Probe

[donna@shopbottools.com]

Hi ShopBotters,

I wanted to update those of you using the probe on some "issues" you might be experiencing with the probe.
There has been a few calls about the nut below the stylus coming loose. This is caused by the vibration of the Z axis. I have started using loctite to secure this nut. You might want to check out your probe to see if this nut has worked itself loose. If it has or hasn't you might want to loosen it and put some loctite or superglue under it tighten it back down. Also you might want to put tape around your probe in the collet to keep it stable while probing.

I also have an "issue" with the spring. I don't feel it is long enough or straight enough. I take each spring and using a pair or pliers gently pull it apart.

If you need help with your probe and feel the physical probe may be causing you problems, please give me a call or drop me a line.

We are researching other sources for probes, and if any of you have used a different application for probing please let us know.

Thanks gang!

[garlickink@home.com]

Hi Donna,
How about replacement PCB"s for inside the probe? I'm tired of making my own, and possibly gold plated contacts to hold up better in a shop environment? Various different stylus's to match router bit profiles? I'm hand tapping brass rod and shaping in a drillpress with a file now. The probe is a valuable tool, but a few improvements would be greatly appreciated. thanx ko

[Donna]

Hi Guys,

Here is a picture of the stylus that Ron Sturgill can custom make for you. Call him or email him:
419-382-6445 sturg2@hotmail.com

I have added Lock tight to the latest batch of Probes. I would like to hear feedback on any problems you are experiencing. Lonie Prince has added a strong piece of foam to his probe when he attaches it to the router. It cuts back on the electronic hum, which is causing some of the problems with vibration for some of you.

Please email me at donna@shopbottools.com and let me know what issues you are continuing to have with the probe.

Keith, I am working on your issues, Thanks for sending your brother to me!

Talk to y'all soon!
and Happy Thanksgiving!

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Speaking of probes, has anyone seen this:

http://www.aculux.com

It is a laser range finder with accuracy of .001", range from 4"-7" and a sample rate of 500Hz. With a laser spot size of .008", you _could_ digitize at a rate of 240ipm (4 ips). Outputs its data via serial port (among other formats).

While not cheap, it is not expensive either. Especially if you do a fair amount of digitizing, this would probably be a worth while investigation. I wonder if the Shopbot language can support reading/writing to a second serial port.... What do you think Ted?

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[Mayo]

Dear Santa

All I want for Christmas is an aculux LaseRanger!
(And a way to make it work on the shopbot)

[Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools]

Hi Bruce,

We'll try and get one of these and see what we can do with it. Doing it in SBP language is not likely to be as fast as you dream, without adding some special functions. But we've been thinking about adding the capability to read other ports, so this may be the tool that makes that worth implementing.

[garlicking@home.com]

All I Want for Christmas is? Mayo, you inspired me again. What a good topic for a thread" Gold plated probe pcb's, A download site for more SBP designs? I'll donate a few big probe files once there perfected with the new DXF probe. I personally like 2.5d wildlife. What about you folks? You must have some files you'd like to donate to the greater good. How bout it Ted? What's it take to run a download site like (3dcafe) only using SBP files so the newby's and (me) can have instant access to somethimg cool? We all have different preferences on what we want, but if we build a different enough library there will be files for all. Ted, IN the words of the infamous jean luke picard, MAKE IT SO


PS> virginia, there really is a SANTA CLAUSE
ko

[davidallen]

is there a way to get an analog input into the SB controller? of course, if the SB was run under windows (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) reading a second serial port wouldn't be a problem.

da

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Some more info on the probe.

Talked to the Aculux tech along with reading more information on the laser probe. First off, by using the serial port, the sample rate is only 140Hz, giving a top end "scan" speed of ~60ipm. Still faster than a touch probe but not as fast as possible.

Second, the tech said that wood is a "hard" surface to probe, as the fibers act like fiber optics, carrying the light away. So, with out "powdering" the wooden object first, your data will be a little "jittery" (his word).

Still, it looks like a nice alternative to a touch probe and with the implementation of a serial port read/write to the ShopBot language, this seems like a very doable option.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Bruce,
I don't know if this is of interest to you or not,
We leased a laser this spring for a job, and it had a material surface sensor on it the name on
the head was "opticon" it was totally auto the only setup was for focal length of lens.."but"
it would stop if you had different levels of material in the laser and re-adjust so it was
capable,almost, but not meant to run 3/d..

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Dan,

Everything is interesting. There are a lot of laser probes, but not to many that are reasonable in price. That is why the Aculux grabbed my attention. Actually, it did more than that. It just arrived today, so I am going full ahead with the laser probe.

Will let the forum know how it goes...

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[kaaboom_99]

I hope this is the right area to post this.
Is there a way to utilize the Probe and the supporting part file to generate a "pocket" of the item being probed? Understanding of course that you define where z zero is on the item being probed. Any ideas?
Thanks

[gerald_d]

Perry, maybe I have a very simplistic view of your question, but it sounds like you want to probe an item and then sink a mould of that item?

If that is the case, you can change the scales on the startup screen as:
x = 1.0
y = -1.0 (to get flipped over mirror image)
z = -1.0 (so that height above zero becomes depth below zero).

[kaaboom_99]

Thanks Gerald, sometimes we go for the "complex" and are quite ignorant of the "simple". Just another example of why Shopbot is sooo great!!!

[gerald_d]

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

[propellers@aol.com]

Since the shopbot Jamboree I have had many E-Mails asking about the type stylus I use for the probe. The probe stylus must be the same diameter and shape as the cutter, so if you plan to use a larger cutter than the two stylus that are included with the probe you must make a stylus to match the cutter diameter and shape.

All of our stylus are purchases from Ron Sturgil in Toledo, OH 419-382-6445 sturg2@hotmail.com (mailto:sturg2@hotmail.com), he will manufacture a custom stylus for approximatley $20.00, he does a beautiful job and delivers quickly.

Lonnie Prince

[valensign]

I'm Looking at buying the Probe and I was wondering does the probe work on a point system or as a follower.. Reason I'm asking is I am using Rhino and I would like to import the points then apply a surface and the modify parts. then export as stl.

[gerald_d]

William, make your own rough probe to see if you can use the data, before you purchase the fancy model. All that you need is some aluminum foil and a paperclip.

The probing program runs on a grid in the x,y plane, and descends to sample the height at a grid intersection point. Then pulls up, indexes to next grid intersection and repeats process. It is not rocket science.

[ron_cleaver]

William,

I'm also interested in using the probe and Rhino eventually. My impression so far is that Rhino can import the point cloud that the probe provides and allow you to make a surface and dxf from it.

[support@shopbottools.com]

The probe works on a grid system with X & Y stepovers that are set to the desired distances by the user. The s_prb3d.sbp part file for probing uses this grid system as a guide and scans the surface of the part with the probe stylus. The way it scans the Z is moved down until it makes contact with the part and the moved up only until it looses contact, then moves to the next position until it makes contact again and writes this position to a part file. The process is repeated until the part is finished. The problem with using this method & Rhino to create point clouds to create surfaces is that the grid is non-uniform. The number of points in each scanline isn't the same and makes creating a mesh from a network difficult if not impossible in Rhino. There is a method in Rhino that will let you make curves from the individual rows of points and then use those curves to create a surface from the network of curves. This can be very time consuming if you have a large number of scanlines. We will have to look at the probe part file and modify it to write a move to the part file only if the X coordinate is within tolerance of the next grid position.

[garlicking@charter.net]

Gordon,
There are many of us lurking out here that would love to see the probe s_prb3d files Rhino counterpart. I hate having the tools but not the technology.
keith

[valensign]

After thinking about the grid problem as you were saying. Would it be possible to write a file that the Sb would raise and move in .25 increments or smaller then lower the probe till contact then move again till the file was done. That way you could just set the scale in Rhino to inch and align the points there..
i might know more about what Im talking about once I play with it. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[gerald_d]

William, that is more or less how it works already.

Here are two files that may be useful:

The first file Mouse.dxf (http://www.scapenotes.com/Mouse.dxf) is the dxf output result after probing a normal computer mouse. Mouse wrapped in aluminim foil and grounded to SB frame ground, "paperclip" connected to the zero-height-setting wire, if I remember correctly. (The mouse may be 25.4 times bigger than you expected - we work in the modern metric system ;-)) You will need a 3D cad program to see it, the freebie TurboCad doesn't recognise it, but Vector and AutoCad LT are okay.

The second file s_f&rdxf3d.sbp (http://www.scapenotes.com/s_f&rdxf3d.sbp) is the program that we fed to the ShopBot to actually do the probing with the alumininium foil and paperclip method. It is modified from the file that is provided with the ShopBot. Probably a crude modification, but it did give us the first results file. Enough to make us wonder if probed results will be of any benefit to us without a further huge investment in hardware, software and time for a learning curve. (We had to modify the standard probe program because the probe has a "normally closed" switch that opens on contact. The foil/paperclip is "normally open")

[ron_cleaver]

Manufacturing Productions, Inc. recently announced COPious for Rhino 2.0, a point cloud to NURBS surface translator:

COPious (http://www.mfgprod.com/)

[valensign]

Gerald,
Thanks for the sample file it was intresting and it helped me undersatnd the point cloud more in Rhino It worked fairly decent. It gives me an Idea of what im up against but I think it will work one I get my probe finished.
Thanks again
Bill

[valensign]

Thought you might want to see your Mouse after I brought it into Artcam:

[valensign]

[valensign]

Well I cant Post the image for some reason.
Sorry

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Bill,

I use OPERA as my main browser. I cannot post pictures through OPERA. I have to use Inner-net Extorter - 6.0 is the version I have.

Also, the version of DISCUS ShopBot uses limits the file size to 10 Kb for all of us 'tin can and string' dial-up modem users who would curse the load time for larger files.

Ron Brown - rgbrown@itexas.net (mailto:rgbrown@itexas.net)

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which
debt he proposes to pay off with your money." - G. Gordon Liddy

[gerald_d]

Quite curious to see the pics! If you guys mail (mailto:mechtron@iafrica.com) your images to me, I'll try to post them.

[gerald_d]

Thanks for the pic William, but I ended up with this error message when I tried to post it:

Invalid Referer

You are not accessing this page from an acceptable referring page.

[Glen]

Hello All,


I was looking for advice on how to best digitize half of a model airplane fuselage. What I'd like to be able to do it purchase one of those plastic airplane kits and be able to probe it with the shopbot then clean up the file and cut it out of foam with my SB router at 10 times the size or so.

I'd like to make a large scale flying model.

Any ideas?

I can't seem to get the existing probing files to work for me.

PS, I don't have a shopbot probe. I was thinking of making something perhaps.

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Glen,

If you are not trying for 'exact', foil tape or aluminum foil held with glue or vacuum works to probe.

If it were mine I would import pictures into RHINO an use RHINO to make a 3D model.

Ron

[Jeculpep@ala.net]

Glen,

I have a number of airplanes in 3D already. e-mail me about what type plane you would like and I will see if I can help.

JOE

[Glen]

Hi Joe, looking for a U2

Also most any modern airliner

[pauln]

PROBE on eBay:
Anyone looking for a good deal on a probe, saw one listed on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3109621076&category=11 810

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Gerald,

Thanks for the Mouse.dxf file. I had never seen an actual point cloud before and was curious what you could do with one.

I was very surprised to see how well Vector connected the points (draw, line, connect). With minimal clean up, it produced a very uniform "rasterish" tool path.

The probe is looking more attractive.

One question: Instead of custom making a probe tip to match the cutter, wouldn't it be possible to just scale the point cloud up? Then, cut and paste the difference in radius between the probe and tool as a negative Z value? I'm thinking strictly of convex surfaces.

As an example, if the probe tip is .5 mm radius and the tool is 3 mm radius, cut and paste the cloud scaling up by 6 (2r). Then cut and paste again entering in a Z value of -2.5 (3mm-.5mm=2.5mm).

[windsor@muskoka.com]

I've just finnished hooking up my probe , and have tried probing a couple of parts . I am trying to create a DXF file . I've tried opening the files , but nothing will import them . I used the s_3ddxf program , ane used a:\filename as the output path .--- The text file looks like this :
0
SECTION
2
ENTITIES
0
POINT
8
0
10
0.213
20
0
30
-2
0
POINT
8
etc. ---What am I missing ?

[bill.young]

Hi Mike,

The sample that you posted looks OK, but it's hard to tell from just a short section. What 3d programs have you tried to open it in? Does it try to open and then fail, or not do anything at all? If you'll email the whole file to me I'll be glad to see if I can figure out what the trouble is.

One thing you might try is to save to your hard drive instead of the floppy drive. The probing routine has to write the coordinates to the file at each contact point, and it may be having trouble writing to the floppy drive that often.

Bill

[windsor@muskoka.com]

Hi Bill thanks for the quick reply . I tried saving to the hard drive and it seems to work fine now . ----probably less dust in there . my next question is , is there a way to have the probe save just the points that correspond to a grid . i.e. x point spacing 1 , y point spacing .08 , or something like that without all of the other points in between ? --- I'm probing an old beat up spoon blade oar , and would like to clean up the section curves and loft the curves in Rhino to create a new cutting file that won't reproduce the dings . ---with all of the extra points in between the main grid that I specified it's pretty hard to tell which ones to use when I'm drawing the sections . Thanks Mike

[bill.young]

Hi Mike,

The original probe routines worked that way but were pretty slow because they lifted to the safe zup position every time they moved to make sure that the probe didn't get clobbered. It seems to me that someone had a probe file that combined the two...I'll see what I can find out.

Bill

[windsor@muskoka.com]

Hi Bill : I was just thinking , that if the primary direction of the probe was along the y axis , then I could just increase the probe limit so that it would be clear of the oar when it would move over 1" in the x direction without hitting anything , then back down the y axis in smaller steps to get a higher resolution section . I'm sure that it's probably just a matter of editing the file to switch an X and a Y somewhere , but I'm just not to sure where . That way the clearance moves would be using the faster moving y axis .

[windsor@muskoka.com]

I played around with the 3d dxf probe file , and got it to do sections along the Y axis . I used the points to create curves at 2" intervals along the X axis , then lofted the curves to create a surface in Rhino .I found this oreintation very usefull to probe an eight foot oar . This variation might be usefull to others , so I'm attatching it here . Perhaps the folks at shopbot can add it to their downloads ?


'dxfPrb3d2.sbp 12/99,7/00,6/01 (GB, TH)
' modified 8/01 for dxf output by BY
' This is a sample of a probing/digitizing routine for use with ShopBot's 3D-sensing probe
' **This program only works with a NORMALLY-CLOSED SWITCH such as in this probe
' For a general purpose, normally-open, probing program see: S_probe.sbp
' The program is designed to either run with a set of default values that you can edit
' in the code below, or to get User Input of probing set-up values when it is run.
' This program probes a row of points in the X direction and then steps over a row in the Y
' Copyright 1998-2001. ShopBot Tools, Inc.

'User takes responsibility for the effects and outcomes of the use of this program.
'Test Run this program in Preview Mode and with air cutting above material to make
' sure you are satisfied that it is doing what you expect it to do.
'

'Initialize
SA, 'absolute increment mode
SC,0 'turn smoothing (move blocks) OFF
SL, 'clear all variables in memory
&zmax=-2 'maximum probe depth
&tol=.005 'used to control IF test comparisons
&surfacetol=.002 'used to keep clear of surface if a lot of it is flat

'Default variables, these are values that will be used if you want to skip the prompts
'... you could change these to suite your own needs
&outname="c:\sbparts\scanned.dxf" 'file name with or without .dxf, add path
&xstart = 0 'X starting position
&xmove = 0.05 'X step increment
&xdist = 1 'X distance of probe pattern
&ystart = 0 'Y starting position
&ymove = 0.05 'Y step increment
&ydist = 1 'Y distance of probe pattern
&safeclear = 0.5
&defaults = "N"

'Now you let the software know whether you want to input values or not
INPUT "Use Default settings (Y\N): " &defaults
&defaults = "&defaults"

IF &defaults="Y" THEN GOTO START 'otherwise you'll be prompted by the following lines for them

'Get user-entered probing values
INPUT "Name for 3D cutting file ( filename.dxf ): " &outname
INPUT "X Starting Position ->" &xstart
INPUT "Y Starting Poistion ->" &ystart
INPUT "X pattern size ->" &xdist
INPUT "Y pattern size ->" &ydist
INPUT "X step distance ->" &xmove
INPUT "Y step distance ->" &ymove
INPUT "Safe clearance height (pull up here for big moves) ->" &safeclear

START:
&xmax=&xstart+&xdist-&tol
&ymax=&ystart+&ydist-&tol
&zstart=&safeclear
&xmin=&xstart+&tol
&ymin=&ystart+&tol
&xloc=&xstart
&yloc=&ystart
&xdir = 1
&ydir = 1

'You will be creating a Part File on the fly ... as you scan
OPEN &outname FOR OUTPUT AS #1
GOSUB DXFHEADER

' Ready to start -----> (anykey to continue)
PAUSE

'Moving to start location
JZ, &safeclear
J2, &xstart, &ystart
MS, 1, 0.4 'sample speeds, you may want to set ramps to

'Check to make sure probe attached by checking the system variable status for input 1
IF %(51)=1 THEN GOTO CONTINUE1
PRINT " Probe Not Working ----> EXITING !"
PAUSE 6
END

CONTINUE1:
PRINT " Probe Working ----> Start? (anykey to continue)"
PAUSE

DOWN_CYCLE:
ON INPUT(1,0) GOTO CONTACT 'Set up response to contact
&yloc = &yloc + (&ymove*&ydir) 'Compute for next lateral move
MZ, &zmax 'DOWN HERE ... looking for basic bottom
' -->expected -off- hit bottom
OVER_CYCLE:
ON INPUT(1,1)
ON INPUT(1,0) GOTO CONTACT
MY, &yloc 'MOVING OVER HERE ... looking for edge
' -->expected -off- hit side
IF &yloc&ymax THEN GOTO NEXTX
GOTO DOWN_CYCLE

CONTACT:
ON INPUT(1,0)
&xpoint = %(1)
&ypoint = %(2)
&zpoint = %(3)
GOSUB WRITEPT 'Write 3d location to dxf file
MZ, %(3)+&surfacetol
ON INPUT(1,1) GOTO OVER_CYCLE 'When clear goto next lateral
MZ, &safeclear 'UP until we are clear
'No Clearance or Problem with Probe!
PAUSE

END 'If we don't get clear we'd better stop !

NEXTX:
ON INPUT(1,0) 'Temp off
&xpoint = %(1)
&ypoint = %(2)
&zpoint = %(3)
GOSUB WRITEPT 'Write 3d location to dxf file
JZ, &safeclear 'Up a tad
&xloc=&xloc + (&xmove*&xdir)
IF &xloc>&xmax THEN GOTO LAST
JX, &xloc 'Here we step over in the Y direction
&ydir=&ydir*-1
GOTO DOWN_CYCLE

LAST:
JZ, &safeclear

J2, &xstart, &ystart
WRITE #1; "ENDSEC"
WRITE #1; " 0"
WRITE #1; "EOF"
CLOSE
'Finished Probing ...
PAUSE 5

END

DXFHEADER:
' dxf header information
WRITE #1; " 0"
WRITE #1; "SECTION"
WRITE #1; " 2"
WRITE #1; "ENTITIES"
WRITE #1; " 0"
RETURN

WRITEPT:
' add the point to the dxf files
WRITE #1; "POINT"
WRITE #1; " 8"
WRITE #1; "0"
WRITE #1; " 10"
WRITE #1; &xpoint
WRITE #1; " 20"
WRITE #1; &ypoint
WRITE #1; " 30"
WRITE #1; &zpoint
WRITE #1; " 0"

RETURN

[yohanpauls]

Hi Paul
I have found only this on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50971&item=3834662 786&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[yohanpauls]

Hello!
Somebody can say about the Probe
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25271&item=3836299 889&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[yohanpauls]

Hello!
Somebody is on a forum?
Somebody can say about the Probe
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12581&item=3839247 804&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Thank you!