Sealing Gold Leaf

[davidp]

I am applying a small amount of gold leaf to a very tight grained solid timber box lid and was wondering if I need to seal the timber with shellac before applying the size or will the size be sufficient to seal the timber.

Also the box will be finished with shellac and wax will this effect the gold leafing.

Regards,
David

[rick_woodward]

Seal/ final finish the box minus the wax. Then do your gold leaf. then wax. Gold doesnt tarnish , It doesnt need an over coat. But in the case of expected handling overcoats maybe neccessary. I dont use shellac , but if i recall, it has an amber "cast" to it. Most finishes applied over gold will dull/alter the sheen. Having said that, Maybe a waterbase clear urethane would be a truer clear overcoat. TEST first. But i think i would shellac to a final finish,apply gold , then waterbase clear . Wax wouldnt be needed. Just my opinion.

[kerrazy]

if it is 23K gold nothing is needed. if it is 16K or dutch gold, then a clear laquer, will be fine, understanding that it will dull the sheen. 16K has tin, as well as dutch gold with will allow the leaf to oxidize, so it is recommended to seal it.
Dale

[joe]

I sure like Shellac for this kind of work.

It's a tried and proven base coat sealer. Shellacs been around for centuries. Made from the body's of Lac Beetles. We purchase our in buttons that are disolved in alchohol. It can be clear as water down to dark orange. The darker versions are the basic finish of violins.

Good old Shellac is the reason M&M candy melts in th mouth not in the hand. Yes it's both used in the food industry but primarily a pharmacy product.

The single most notable quality of shellac is it's ability to cover oil spots and knots providing a great base for paint and varnish.
It's a fool proof sealer and I would strongly recommend it as a base coat for gold size.

I'd use a rattle can of Eurthane for a final finish. Since gold is so thin it needs to be protected if being handled.

I topcoat all my gold. The elements take it toll on this thin film.

www.normansginco.com (http://www.normansginco.com)

[davidp]

Thank you all. As usual the combined wisdom of this forum saves if not the day, at least a lot of frustration during the day. :-)

I have not used Gold Leaf before so this is an experiment for the ornamentation of a box.

Regards,
David

[edcoleman]

Joe:

"Eurthane" ? was that a typo or is that a real product? I did a quick "google" and didn't turn up much.

I do only a few signs a year but I'm always on the lookout for the next "miracle" topcoat


-Ed

[kerrazy]

if I may be so bold as to help the old crotchety one(Joe Crusty er Crumley) LOL
I do believe he ment Urethane. but was listening to his golden oldies of Aretha Franklin and well plum got confused.....


As for topcoating, I never topcoat gold for exterior use, as it dulls it, I believe Joe is suggesting this when in an application where it will be handled frequently, as the oild and acids in our skin may and will cause it to tarnish. As for exterior work, always, and I do mean always use 23K gold and you will never be disappointed.
Miss ya Joe!

Dale

[joe]

Thanks Dale for the assistance.

Yep Ed, it's Urethane.

Down here in Oklahoma, during the summer, gilded ground signs at apartment additions, doctors offices, dentist offices, etc. loose their gold sparkle due to sprinklers. They add a calcium deposit and it also erodes the gold. Makes it thinner. I used to have to re-gild every few years.

I used to stay away from clear coats over gold, but now I clear it all. Perhaps there is a little less sparkle, but there is the added deeper yellow color the clear adds. I like it much better and I think the old thinking about dulling is past history. Your kido's, like Dale, will come around. It takes time and patience.

There's a new rattle can clear, Permalac, which is made for exterior use. It seems very good. www.sculptnouveau.com (http://www.sculptnouveau.com)

J.
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[edcoleman]

Joe:

I've tried alot of stuff for clear topcoats to make an exterior sign "indestructible". One of the best I've found was glisten from the folks at POR-15. That stuff works great but it seemed to me that it was a bit "heavy" on the chemical side and I didn't want to spray it without the proper equipment. For the limited amount of signage that I do a "rattle can" would be much preferable to me. I've seen folks reference Permalac on this forum before ... I'll have to give it a try.

As always I appreciate the insight from the pros in the sign area.

-Ed

PS: Dale - be careful throwing stones about typos..."oild" isn't a word according to my dictionary

[joe]

Ed,

I think Dale is correct with the word Oiled. It's most often used to describe the affects of too much Stout.

J.

[joewino]

These old timers like Joe always add a touch of wisdom to this site. I've been listening to Joe ever since I was a kid.

My general rule is to never top coat gold (23k) unless it is going to be touched. Years ago I did a carved sign for a hospital and since the sign was out of reach I didn't clear it with anything. But I forgot about the cleaning team and their cleaning sprays. The gold is still there but it is getting thinner every year.