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joe
06-16-2009, 10:59 PM
PPC

Does anyone have any experience with this new advertising medium. I'm getting ready to give a try and would like to see if anyone else has experience. It's going to replace lots of Yellow Page Ads.

If you would like to investigate the subject, try Google.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

kivimagi
06-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Joe,

It certainly has its place. It can be expensive, and one should spend time improving your html pages for organic search placement as well.

I can help if you are interested, but I'm guessing you have it figured out already??

Good Luck

joe
06-16-2009, 11:46 PM
Ryan,

Thanks very much for the offer. No I haven't figured out anything yet.

Here's my thoughts. Since I only make dimensional signs and letters it seems as though I could target my markets. That way I control who responded. Does this make since?

Last year I became aware of the need for CNC services in my area but didn't know how to approace it. Perhaps this might be the medium.

Any input would be appreciated. Also, there might be other SBers who would like to hear more about PPC.

Joe Crumly
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

dana_swift
06-17-2009, 09:27 AM
Joe- I expect you will find that your idea of potential clients is a lot different than the vendors of this service.

First question is what constitutes a "click". Because advertisers get paid for any "pass through" a counting site, this encourages fraud. Last night I was out on the net looking up info on hardware, and clicked on a link for "more information". It led me to a site on bras. I'm sure the bra vendor paid for my "view". I was annoyed. The link was a fraud. And tragically common.

For years the easiest way a advertising group could get lots of traffic was to claim to have X materials, then have links to PPC counters on images that can be fairly labeled "misleading". If you looked up "fishing gear" the links would take you to X sites. PPC is why.

You may have a great experience with it, google is making a lot of money from the service, but I find most of their "suggested links" to be poor choices for my needs. Occasionally they do provide a valuable "sponsored link", however I suspect the ratio is over 100:1 against it.

Years ago, I wrote a commercial children's web browser, one of its features was to remove advertising. It was not difficult to do, and worked quite well. As much "spam" as occurs on the web now, I figure its just a matter of time before there is a Firefox plug-in that works just as well. When that goes into common use, the idea of a click-view means you will be paying mostly for robot web-crawlers.

I operate my own web server, when I read the logs, about 50% of the hits I get are from web-crawlers, not humans. How many of those go into a PPC billing?

If you give it a try, let us know how it works out. Both the troubles and successes are instructive. I am curious as to how they are billing for that service.. setup fees.. "maintenance" fees, and how much per "view"?

On the positive side, I know a company that used PPC advertising and got good and effective responses, however they could use a very "wide net" in their case.

Good luck with the experiment-

D

mims
06-17-2009, 10:23 AM
I've been using Ablock Plus for Firefox (it's free) for years. I do actually turn on advertising for websites that I frequent and may possibly have ads that interest me (like cnc related sites, woodworking sites, etc). But, on 99.999% of other sites, I have no idea that ads are even trying to be shown. You can even get free 'filter subscriptions' that keep your ad filters up-to-date (so if websites change their ad server names, you still filter them properly).

joe
06-17-2009, 07:17 PM
Thanks for the posts fellows.

Eric, PPC isn't a blocking device. It's an extension to your electronic yellow book.

Dana, It's my understanding you aren't on the hook unless a prospective client calls you and you pick up the phone and talk to them. If they visit your website, you aren't charged. The way it works is, you choose a monthly budget, which can be changed, up or down, at any time. There isn't any annual contract. You can start or stop anytime.

Unlike broadcast advertising, such as Yellow Book, which goes to everyone, PPC is targeted. For Example: You could direct search engines to show your company website when a customer is looking for Key Words. If the're interested in your product, pick up the phone and call, you're charged.

My understanding is, you can have as many Key Words as you want (Free). The area covered can be your local town, all the way up to covering the USA.(Free) There isn't a charge for the region size. They're in the business of getting as many customres to your website, and making phone calls as possible.

Key Words are the trick. Lets say you want to reach Dentists, Horse Ranches, Golf Courses, Restraunts, etc. then those words are put in your Q.

I've been looking over this type of for a few days. It seems not many folks know much about it, just like me.

Do we have ANYONE who is a current PPC user and how it going?

Gary Campbell
06-17-2009, 09:15 PM
Hey Joe...
I will take a shot at it for you. I am not now, but have been a PPC Google Adwords subscriber. I will give you a few of the things I learned both for and against.

You can set the price that you wish to pay for any of your "keywords". remember that if you want to pay .25 or .50 per click that a major nationwide entity may be paying a dollar, or in some cases, 20% more than the highest other price.

You can set your area... city, county, state, selected states or nationwide.

You can set your budget per month. You will receive reminders to your limit and the advantages of raising it. Remember, these are advertising salespersons, and they put out emails like the internet telemarketers they are.

You pay when they click on the link to your site... period.

I have seen nothing that has anything to do with phones or calls.

Remember if you wish your site to be listed on the first page, then you need to pay more than all but 8 or 9 of 17 pages full of like advertisers. They may not mention that you are basically bidding for clicks against all persons with like goals. Some of these may have very substantial ad budgets.

In a year of paying $100 to $200 per month, with an average of 1500 to 2000 "clicks" and 4 to 5000 "shows" I received 1 email. This was good, it turned into a $20K job. Never got another email, never got a phone call.

In that same year... according to the stats from my website, I received 30-35% as many referrals from nonpaid sites as I did google.

The largest referrer to my site has consistanly been "talkshopbot.com", although I havent sold many cabinets to its members.


I have NEVER been able to enter one of my keywords or groups of keywords and have my website shown on the 1st 10 pages, NEVER, from my, or anyone else' computer.

I did however get an email per day reminding me that I shouldn't be able to see it, unless I spent more.

I should also note that I did not acquire any professional help to set this up, and as an amatuer, may have screwed it all up on my own.

Joe, this is advertising, just like billboards, he who spends the most, for the most, will receive the most... exposure.

You can set a budget... you can start or stop as you wish, there is very little risk, I simply feel that the results may be proportional to the outlay.
Gary

joe
06-17-2009, 10:00 PM
Thanks Gary,

Your post was spot on target and I sure appreciate you input.

Did you have a large coverage area and what would you do to make the PPC more effctive? I may not take the plunge but since there isn't much risk, I may have a go at it.

Joe

Gary Campbell
06-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Joe...
I first started with the county I am in, and then later raised my limit and added the state of FL as majority of homes here are 2nd homes of those with primary residence elsewhere.

I think that a good strategy would be to find keywords that are appropriate and unique to your product. Problem may be that all the people with big budgets may have research gurus to choose perfect keywords.

If I were to do it again, I would first post testamonials on our site, select the county as my area, and use higher per click amount. This would allow tie in to word of mouth. Target buyers rather than lookers. Internet is full of the discount sites... separate yourself from them as local.

and I would make more SAMPLES SAMPLES SAMPLES. These should be easier for myself than you due to the fact I use VACUUM hold down.

Gary (sorry couldn't resist that one!)

dakers
06-18-2009, 07:44 AM
Joe, briefly, we have a full time person who does only internet sales. We have many websites. The one site is only for internet sales. He does what ever it takes to get our rankings high. Whatever he does is working. He said anyone could learn what he does if they spend time. He told me to google how to get high rankings and study everything i could. He is going to retire soon and will show us what he does. I will talk to him today and see if he can email you. I tried the click to pay sites and did not lose money There are niche markets that botters can enter. We started the internet company about 10 years ago and it is growing each year.

joe
06-18-2009, 07:55 AM
Ha Ha, glad to see you've committed to memory my montra, “Make more samples”. Your forgiven even though your a vacuum head

Ron Mitchell my new sidekick, wants to concentrate on CNC offerings. In a short six months, he much better with it than I am. And he enjoys tedious technical denking around. I'm looking for a good advertising medium to push this side of the business and PPC is it for now. I'm going to give it a try since I can control the costs and direction. I'm finished with broadcast advertising like yellow pages. Here's an example of my full page yellow pages ad. Although it works very well, it's way too expensive for the financial return.


5817

For the past two years we've lived off our website and history. Ron is in the process of optimizing our website. As you know, it's very important but even more so with PPC.

I've never thought of this forum as being any financial benefit. For me it's been very a helpful resource area and lots of fun seeing others work. I only wish we had more postings on step by step.
I could do more but feel as though others will think I'm taking over or blowing my own horn.

mims
06-18-2009, 08:55 AM
Joe, I know what PPC is. I was responding to Dana's message. The point of my message was to say that I, and countless others, use adblocking that shows me zero PPC ads or any other types of ads. I never see any Googel AdSense ads or anything from any company ever, unless I allow a website to show ads. But I will turn ads on for some interesting websites, so I can see what products might be out there.

dakers
06-18-2009, 10:43 AM
Joe, here is what Bob emailed me about optimization

the only way you can really learn search engine optimization is to dive into the information that is out there. some of it costs money and some of it is free. since the search engines change their algorithms regularly, you have to continue to study and make changes as needed. i think many think you put keywords in the meta tags and on the site and bingo - you rise to the top. wish it was that easy.

i'm falling a bit behind on my studying lately as well as i've been getting pretty busy and am doing a lot of work around the house in the evenings. i just heard google made some new changes but i haven't had a chance to see what they are yet.

dakers
06-18-2009, 12:06 PM
Joe, bob further tells me.
when i get some time i'll send you some links to seo sites you might find useful. be aware though - a little knowledge in this area can be more dangerous than none at all as many people try to make quick changes - do it wrong - and get their sites banned.

bob_s
06-18-2009, 12:15 PM
Gary;
"I have NEVER been able to enter one of my keywords or groups of keywords and have my website shown on the 1st 10 pages, NEVER, from my, or anyone else' computer. " It is working - If you put in florida keys, cabinets, stairs - you are about 1/2 way down on the first page. The challenge is to figure out why, and then get other search word combo's to work as well. Sometimes looking at the Page Source will give you the answer - but not often. Search engine analytics is a major area of confusion. By keeping their algorithms secret Google and others make it difficult without paying. But "search engine optimization" or SEO will result in a google page with a few good articles. Will it bring $ to a business - that is another very different question.
Bob

Gary Campbell
06-18-2009, 03:45 PM
Bob...
You are correct, even I can find that one! What I said and you quoted is correct. When using 3 or more of my keywords, most always returned our site on 1st 2 pages. What I didnt say was that I rewrote most of the pages of my website using those keywords that received the most clicks. (at the advice of a friend) Now I get the same number hits per month +/- 5% to our website and pay less.

When we reenter this ad venue, and I am sure that we will, it will be done with the aid of professionals, as I am sure that what I have done so far has returned unaccaptable results.
Gary

joe
06-18-2009, 05:37 PM
Eric,

I'm sorry for not understanding what you were talking about. I know almost nothing about all PPC which is the reason for my post.

I believe Gary is correct about having a professional to assist.

Gary, I do believe my YP sales person stated the end result and charges came from the telephone connection. During the discussion both Ron and I recall her stating this. It will be interesting to find ou more.

GlenP
06-18-2009, 09:43 PM
Hey guys, we have done pay per click and did get alot of hits from it. We did have to keep our price per click in the $0.65 range to get on the top pages. I had a cap on it of around $65 per month. We had sales from it from but noticed the more clicks we got the more google wanted us to up our minimum per click. They emailed us and said more sites are using our keywords so to stay in the top pages we should up our CPC. I said no and turned it off. It did bring in some sales from other provinces but also brought alot more emails to respond to that went no where. My opinion is too have a site professional get your keywords placed in the right places and then approach other websites to share links. I just typed in "routered signs" and our site came up in the first page. Sharing links is free and we find it does bring in traffic if you are on the right sites. A friend of mine you makes beautiful signs made a freebie for his local sport and canoe shop, they get alot of cottagers and tourists and they all want one of those pretty signs. Check his site out...www.trmacsigns.com (http://www.trmacsigns.com)
Good Luck and keep us posted Joe.

joe
06-19-2009, 07:38 AM
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 7:28 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks fellows,

The PPC haze is beginning to lift.

There she is, on the Horizon, PC land. "Heads Up Maties, lower the mast, trim those sails, we'll be dropping anchor soon." There'll be shore leave for some of you swine.
Aarg!

Here's my suspecions and findings: Website optimization (SEO) should be part of good ad program. We've found it isn't too difficult but lots steps and it takes time. It's folly, trying to outsmalt Google. You need to be honest and out front with your product listings. They continually check for scams. And they'll lower your ad positition and once that happens it's hard to climb bakc up.

I received a very helpful call, last night, from Dave S. concerning PPC. He correctly pointed out the SEO isn't directly related to PPC. I believe he's correct. That shot my eyebrows up to the top of my head. It makes sence. With PPC you are paying for the position.

Gary, Let me know what you think abut this. My contact is the YP rep. She is telling us, when they configure the package, there is a tracking number which results in a phone call from the prospective client. That generates a click. This is a step beyond a client viewing the website. This may be new or possibly only available through YP.

Some of my mail about PPC is very positive, others aren't as good. It seems this is a little tricky to get it right. To quote Ross Pero, "I'm All Ears".

I regularly receive calls and mail from SBers who almost never post. They are content on viewing only. Who knows how much useful information is transfered and put to good use, due to this forum. I know I learn lots.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

dakers
06-19-2009, 09:12 AM
Just some stories.
One of our internet sales companies was selling recycled plastic benches, picnic tables, lumber.
Bob our guy who does the SEO got us selling about $20,000. the first year without ppc. I pulled the site after a few years because i have a fear of not getting paid from people we did not know. Some did not pay and some were very too slow. I just started back selling the benches and tables this year but only to the government. They have never defaulted but pay slower.
A friend of mine has a internet sales site for school products. He has 7,000 products. He pays about $5,000. per month for ppc and seo. he said he goes into the red on ppc about 8 to 9 months a year but the really good months make up for it.

Right now our internet site is making enough money to pay for one sales person, the seo he does, and about $30,000 profit per year. The cash flow becomes the issue, shipping issues we had to learn, having the right forms forms for customer to fill out, deadlines, proofs, etc.
The biggest surprise is that most of the profit comes from selling design time rather than the product itsef. We sell that at $90.00 per hour and it is the most lucrative part for us. Right now with the seo and the repeat business and referrals i would not go to ppc. We have publications we can advertise in and go to shows but the shows never brought us any sales, The publications were expensive. The only thing stopping us from doing alot of marketing is we do not have an extra $100,000. to play with and see what happens over a year. Our competitors do and they sell more than us.

one company locally ( P. Graham Dunn ) who made routed and laser plaques has had phenonimal growth with retail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjrXJ2jRlU

My son wants to do an ebay sign company.

Locally we see alot of these sandstone residential signs that are blasted or carved. That has been something i think about sometimes because the market is not just businesses.

Wholesale sales is something we tried and got out of. We just could not handle the volume, deadlines and cash flow. A friend of mine started a wholesale company doing vacuuformed sign faces in the 1970s in his storage bldg in his back yard. He now has a huge operation selling nationally. It started to really grow when he got sign product distributors like N. Glantz and son, Pioneer, Tubleite to sell his products.

dakers
06-19-2009, 02:31 PM
revision to above post. The $30,000 profit helps pay for employee who does design. so it is probably only
$10,000 profit. The internet company does not have a storefront but it does use the space of our local company when we are designing or invoicing, shipping . Only 25% of our products are made by us. We have a 35% markup on things we just drop ship. Those who make the products we drop ship are much larger than us with more capacity to make things so we are not limited by what we can make.
We are in love with the idea of an internet company because our local market is not good at all since the 70's. Population decline, Large Companies moving to Mexico and outsourcing to India here in the last 20 years. So we were forced to try to start an internet company if we stay here or try to market ourselves better locally which would cost alot to do as well and then you have to be competitive. Trying to upsell here is difficult if you work with small businesses. Zoning issues, license fees, for permits and installs are more difficult to handle each decade.
so selling over the internet seems like a good thing at first glance. So far generally speaking the people we get over the internet are nicer to us than the ones who come in the door. We are in a retail location with lots of drive by traffic. That is good and bad. We had to hire someone to handle the walkins just to qualify people to see who was serious. We had to have a minimum charge which makes many angry at us. We tried being in the industrial park and that was ok for dimensional signs but we also do digital and vinyl and the exposure helps get customers we never got in the industrial park. I have not figured anything out yet. I just keep thinking somewhere in the country things are going great. At least i hope so.

rb99
06-19-2009, 03:35 PM
I feel your pain...

RIB

Gary Campbell
06-19-2009, 09:19 PM
Joe...
I have no knowledge of the advertising "product" as you describe it. Please make sure that you interpret my post(s) as an explantion of my journey, and my reailization that is was most likey down a wrong path.
Gary

robtown
06-20-2009, 07:43 AM
I'm a pessimist at heart so take this with a grain of salt...

These "internet" sales models have you spending dollars going after pennies. I understand profit is profit, but if you focus your time and energy on low profit models, which ANY internet store is, then you are possibly missing larger opportunities right in front of you.

Another thing to consider is PPC will always win out over SEO. The major search engines have to make money somehow so they've engaged in a cat and mouse game over the years with SEO. SEO doesn't make money for them so they make it harder and harder for you to place your pages higher in the returned results using SEO. I'm not syaing SEO isn't possible, but if you do everyting correct and get your site to the number one spot via SEO, you will still be there under the 10 sites that are using PPC or paid placement.

I used to teach Web Development at a local college here in the continuing education program. Part of it was a class on starting and running a business on the internet. What I saw was classloads of people who felt they could simply purchase a domain name and sit back and let the masses come to them. Internet sales and internet marketing are labor intensive jobs. Between security, SEO, dealing with tire kickers, and doing actual sales you need to stay on it full time or pay someone to.

When you hang your shingle out there on the internet you are entering a marketplace with millions and bazillions of competitors, literally. You either need to really have a standout product (like that cool gattlin rubber band gun) or the time and money to market, market, market, and even if you do have that time and money the ROI is small due to the afforementioned issues of our compadres above.

I also know this, anytime I meet someone and they tell me about all the money they make on the internet, I take it with a grain of salt. A good example is I know a local gentleman here who owns a very good domain name in the sign business, a very good domain name. For years he's claimed he makes BIG money off it, numbers that border on the fantastical. Last year he put it up for sale. There's a bit of disconnect here in my mind. I never believed his stories because I know the tru nature of internet sales. But if the domain name and his internet sales were so good and so strong, why is he now selling it?

The 2 words most searched on the internet are a word that rhymes with "corn" and "free"...

I have no answers to the issues presented, and I know my outlook is very pessimistic, but it's based on my experience and the observed experiences of others. There's success stories out there, but they seem to be the exception not the rule. Even Amazon, Dell, and others like that seem to not be doing too well...

On the upside, internet sales can be a good addition to your brick and mortar operation. And it's a great medium for presenting yourself, but unless you sell truly one-of-a-kind collectibles that are small and easy to ship, I'd treat it like any other medium. Carefully weigh your costs vs expected benefits before wading in too deep.

Also, on the upside... Over the last 30 days I've been subjected to a lot of "chatter", the kind of stuff that usually precedes the influx of work. This economy has to rebound, our government isn't going to do it (please no political commentary, that's a bipartisan statement), it's all on us here, the little men, the small business owners.

Stand strong we're going to make our own change and get through this, we have to we're the backbone of the economy, I truly believe that.

dakers
06-20-2009, 02:03 PM
Rob, well thought out and true article.

joe
06-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Rob,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. We need as many posts like this as we can get.

On some of the your points I understand and agree. Let me inject, for the past two years I been heavily relying on my website and the Internet for sales. If you Google my website www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com) , in my local area, Norman, Okla. City area, you'll should find us in the top of generic listing. Even so PPC will probably always get top billing.

I encourage everyone, going into business, to get a good strong website and use it as an anchor on which to build their business. I predict most of us will rely more often on the Internet as the yellow pages diminish. My dilemma is, how do I keep ahead of the curve? What is the most cost affective way to gain new clients? What method will allow me to quickly and easily upgrade and any change to my adversing strategy?

I'm not sold on any particular advertising method. But what else is as cost affective a method is there besides word of mouth, cold calling and the Internet? Broadcast advertising is too expensive and doesn't identify the prospective client.

Many of my fellow sign artists do not even have websites and, in my opinion, that's a mistake. One legitimate reason they don't is they're intimidated by the process and it can be expensive. If a person sets out to build his own website, it probably won't be as affective if they would have a professional to assist. I know, I made that mistake. My web designer pointed out most people end up, when building their own website, taking to themselves and not the client. And “Flash” is not only un-important but most often degrading.

I'm probably PPC bound for lack of any other good options. Fortunately it doesn't have to be expensive and can be started and stopped quickly.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

ghostcreek
06-20-2009, 06:48 PM
Rob and all,
Wise words, I thank you. Right now our most cost effective way of gaining new clients is face to face , mainly at local events. I need to motivate people more then I ever have. I can't seem to make our website revelent to everyone that I target. But slowly people will overcome their fear, and small business people will be ready.

joe
06-21-2009, 07:49 AM
Gary,

I've taken a couple of slow reads of your posts and understand you haven't had the returns on PPC you'd like. It sounds as if this medium may not work out for you. Rob isn't very encouraging either, and Michael doesn't have much good news about the website issue.

I could conclude, PPC or website advertising isn't affective. I'm not there yet.

The website Glen posted is a jewel. Thanks for posting it. Your suggestion to get professional assistance with key words is appreciated.

With my craft, it's not what you say that counts, it's what you do. I gotta get busy.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

bruce_taylor
06-21-2009, 11:33 AM
I have been doing this since the beginning of the year and while my results aren't incredible, it has added exposure and some clients. I have tried many ways and reduced my yellow pages to just small ads they do produce. I think having a presence in all forms of media enhance my business. I will continue to keep my advertising dollars in check in these tight times. Still a necessary evil in any business plan.It is certainly not cost prohibitive and you can stop at anytime. I think someone with your talent only needs a little exposure to separate you from the rest of the crowd. One good job can pay for alot of ppc. Just my humble opinion.

dakers
06-22-2009, 07:19 AM
http://www.netbiz.com/
This is a service that my son started using.
He pays $70. per month for top ranking in Google in ohio.
he said they can get him top ranking in usa for about $250.00

He used it 4 months. got one job. gave 4 bids. maybe a few deadend requests.

joe
06-22-2009, 07:31 AM
Dick,

Are we talking about SEO and not PPC?

Joe

dakers
06-22-2009, 08:20 AM
I asked my Son Rick and he did not know. He said net biz partners with Google and they call them adwords.
he uses church signs for ohio as adword. He gets one ad word for the $70. He said there is an intitial start up fee he paid of about $150 and if you go more adwords the price drops per ad word. So he created a separate site just for church signs. I do not think he wants to take it nationally at this time. Also the customers like to have standard models like Stewart Signs offers.
I can see where eventually if this net biz works they may have to have some kind of bidding war for top placement or something. seems like they could not guarantee everyone top placment.

dakers
06-22-2009, 08:22 AM
also i guess google knows where you are so they can put your site in top rankings for the state you search in. Sounds too good to be true in a way but he says it is working and they are talking to people who they never talked to before. Most of what he wants to do is aluminum fabrication with led message centers.

joe
06-22-2009, 09:02 AM
Dick,

I hope this topic has been as helpful to others as it has been with me. I continually fall behind on technical topics such as this. In order to keep my business on track with making dimensional signs, there is a continual need to keep up with current materials, techniques, and advertising.

Thanks for posting the Netbiz website. They're advertising a website optimizing and maintenance service. Much like what you fellows are doing in-house.

Here's my understanding of the process. With Pay Per Click, you can have as many Key Words or any map area at no extra charge. You pay for the number of hits on the website or in my case the number of calls you receive. There is a bidding process on the use of the Key Words.

Since with PPC you are paying for the positition on the page, a poor SEO isn't important.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

bob_s
06-22-2009, 10:27 AM
Take a look at www.google.com/webmasters/ (http://www.google.com/webmasters/)
use the "webmasters tools" in the upper left 1/4 of the page. It is free and very direct info from the source itself.
I haven't gotten our sites finished yet, but I have heard from some industry pro's that this is about the best quantitative info out there, and you can't beat the cost (free).

ghostcreek
06-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Thanks Bob, great resource. My "bottom Line" is, getting my foot in the door (so I can put it in my mouth!) with a prospective client. Then I can do the rest. I tried direct mail, targeted to a certain area, and that gave me my best response. But the expense of buying a list, doing the direct mail was a hassle. I keep looking for the magic bullet that will help. I go on weekends to local farmers markets, Craft fairs and other local events to get my brand awareness level up. Have gotten good responses, but low sales. Started middle of May, and to date had about 10 follow-up calls, and made 6 sales. But it has been all small stuff, but it pays the bills.
I really think/thought my website would be like an extra person selling for me. But I am suspecting the general economic fear is keeping alot of people from making a purchase. What are your guys expectations from your website? Any suggestions?

jshoes51
06-22-2009, 08:49 PM
I just began a PPC ad on Facebook two days ago. I budgeted $5/day at .76 per click, and I'll see what happens in the next two weeks.

People who sell advertising always say that repetition is key to an ad working, but with a little ad that pops up sporadically on millions of facebook pages in a day, the same person will probably never see the ad twice.

Another thing I did recently on Facebook was to start a business page. I only have a few "fans" so far, mostly my kids and a few of their friends. One fellow I know owns a "green" vacation resort in Canada. His business is a fan of over 200 similar resort type places, outfitters, outdoorsmen etc, and he has quite a following among this network because a couple times week he'll post something interesting about the ice going out, planting the garden, the moose that walked down the road, the ice harvest & etc. People always comment, and a dialogue is always going on, which can never happen when someone just visits a web site.

I've also heard LinkedIn and Twitter can be good in the same way as Facebook. You can probably never reach the numbers available on PPC, but the focus and more personal nature of the interaction is good.

Maybe someone who knows more about these alternatives can expound on them as I'm certainly not an expert at any of this internet stuff.

dakers
07-03-2009, 07:43 AM
There are lots of companies who say they can get you high rankings and you pay monthly fee. They have slick sites, some want you to sell for them too and bring other people in.
i googled some of the bigger names that do that and i came up with many explanations of why these companies are not good to work with. They even called them scams. I am going to use google adwords for marketing and use google to check out any company too.
I do not know anything about all this but i know there are people who do and i am finding them on google and here. It is a learning curve i need to jump into but i am stalling.

joe
07-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Dick,

A couple of months ago when I first started my search for PPC and Website Optimization I was equally confused. So I searched Googling for the word "SIGNS" in several towns and cities to see who was in the top ranking. Then I called each one and asked how they managed to be on top. Without exception they had a web opt. person or a web designed. But all of this has nothing to do with PPC.

I signed on to a PPC account last week. My account rep is with a YellowBook USA. At this time we are in the process of searching out the best key words. There are some titles that lead to dead end calls. For example, for me, if I use the key words “Signs” there will be traffic which probably won't lead to sales. And, And, And, it cost more to use words like Signs since there is competition for it's use. However words like Routing or CNC is relative cheap or Custom Carving are only pennys.

Googles Ad Words is a good place to stat. They have a helpful tutorial also. That's probably the way I'll go in the future. But for now I need all the help I can get.

I may become so rich and fabulously wealthy there won't be time for this silly chatter. You'll have to have your people to talk to my people.

Joe

keith_outten
07-04-2009, 02:19 PM
Joe,

Although I'm not an expert concerning PPC I have some experience that may be helpful and possibly less expensive. If you can get your site linked to high traffic web sites it will definitely more you up in the standings at Google. The more sites you are able to trade links with the higher up you will move.

I am a sign maker at Christopher Newport University, more importantly I own and operate SawMill Creek Woodworkers Forums. The Creek averages between eight to ten million page views per month and well over one million hits per day.

We have an advertising program called "FreeStuff Drawings", if you are willing to give away just one custom sign to a drawing winner the thread we create for you will include your link, phone number, email address and any other information you prefer. Many of our previous FreeStuff sponsors have reported that their web sites have moved from thirty pages back to the first page at Google in just a few days.

Note that I don't derive any financial gain from FreeStuff Drawings, the sponsor ships directly to the winner and I am not involved in any way other than I create the FreeStuff Drawing thread and our software selects a winner via an electronic drawing from our database.

The point is that getting your link in any high traffic web site is solid gold. People try to sneak their links into our Forums every day, we remove them as fast as they can type because we are advertising supported but there are perfectly legal ways of getting your link in the right places that will move you up in the standings at Google.

joe
07-04-2009, 03:11 PM
Keith,

I know what your saying is correct. I post on several forums, leaving behind my web link. It has definantly worked with my local google position. I should join up with yours and others also.

I've drastically cut back on my yellowbook advertising. The reason being is their are too many calls which don't lead to a sale. Expensive too.

Thanks again for posting

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

keith_outten
07-05-2009, 08:17 AM
Your welcome,

I hope that my input is helpful to those who are in need of exposure and don't have the capital to invest in an expensive advertising campaign during these tough times. I have been fortunate these last few years with plenty of work at CNU to keep me busy and allow me the time to gain experience. I own and operate my own little sign shop at my home which is much better equipped than the shop at CNU. At 57 years old I am late getting into the business so I concentrate my efforts making Corian signs. My local competitors don't offer Corian so it gives me an edge in a very small piece of the market, enough to remain profitable. We have a PrtAlpha at CNU and I have the same machine in my workshop, the best money I have ever spent


I've been a woodworker for 35 years and I have a reasonable amount of metal working experience so I design and build my own sign hangers, mostly wrought iron Colonial style. I used to be a welding inspector, in my youth, however I have found sign design and fabrication to be the most enjoyable job I have ever had.
.

drodda
07-11-2009, 03:01 AM
PPC is a scam at best. Unless your targeted market is nationwide you should just work on SEO for your keywords and your local town. You need a large budget to get any real use out of PPC advertising. It does not take that much to see how to get your pages on the top without paying a dime. Like everything in Business though you get out what you put in. It takes some time to get your pages working for you. Do a search for your keywords and look at the first 10 pages that come up relative to your site. Find things that are common to all the sites. Then use these things in your pages to get your site up on the first page.

If a company offers to get your site up top, always search them and see where their site is. It amazes me that a company will make rediculous claims about what they can do for you, when they can't even get their own site on the first pages of search terms. If you read the fine print they promise to get you on top for some obscure search term that there is no one else trying for and no one searching for. Keywords like "Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company" If someone ever searched this term they would be sure to find you anyhow.

joe
07-11-2009, 06:16 AM
Good to have your input Dave.

You may right about PPC. I don't think it's for everyone, depending on your product line and local. I should know in a couple of months. If it doesn't work, I'll be sure to post my findings. Another good thing is, there's no contract. Drop it at any time.

Like you say, key words Norman Sign Company would be a waste, however wouldn't "Ranch Signs" or "Farm Signs", "Routed Signs" or something like that be more effective?

Have you tried PPC and please tell us how you went about it?

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)