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Brady Watson
11-08-2006, 11:38 AM
Here's a job that I will be delivering today for a customer. It took about 14hrs to complete with roughing passes and a really tight 3D stepover. It was digitized from a piece of art measuring @ 5X7" and blown up in ArtCAM to 48X60X4", and then sliced in 2" pieces, then cut in 15# SignFoam3. I figured I'd share it for all of you guys getting started with 3D as inspiration.

Digitized Art:


5832

Finished Part:


5833

fleinbach
11-08-2006, 11:57 AM
Great work, Brady

harryball
11-08-2006, 04:13 PM
Brady,

You caught my wife's eye with this, she is dying to run something 3D. I doubt we start with such a grand project but she has some questions.

---
Brady,

What did you use to paint it and how long did it take to paint?

How long did it take to digitize from the original artwork?

Lastly, can I get a copy of that file?

Cecilia
---


I think I just saw a flock of pigs flying over!

And for my question, how much do you sell something like that for? Using my rates not knowing paint time it looks like it'd run $1200.00 or more.

Great work! BTW, I don't expect a copy of the file, she had to ask.

Robert

paul_n
11-08-2006, 04:39 PM
Brady....

Very Very Nice Work !!!!

Paul

Brady Watson
11-08-2006, 10:02 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys!

For the record, I don't sand, I don't paint, I don't do installations (or windows or floors)
This took about 18hrs to digitize on a Roland Picza. The painted/gold leafed eagle part that you see is about 5X7" and that was furnished by the customer. I would love to sell you the artwork, but I never, ever sell my customer's designs, logos or source code. This level of integrity keeps my customers loyal and vice versa.

BUT...for you & anyone else that is looking for 3D content, I have been working with another ShopBot owner to assemble a 3D catalog of parts, individual reliefs and relief panels available for carving on CNCs. We figure with the recent boom of 4G PRTs and Alphas out there, 3D is starting to make sense for a lot of people who want to do it. Don't all bombard me at once...we are shooting for a nice varied selection of top quality intricate reliefs by the 1st of the year...So hang tight, the wait will be worth it! Announcements to follow as they develop.

We have been working with a few new digitizing technologies & now have the ability to do very high quality scans well beyond the limits of the SB probe & Picza scanners (both have gotten me this far and are excellent in their own right) My MO is to get paid to play as much as possible...so going along those lines, I figured that I would try scanning my favorite LU brand chocolate biscuit cookie just to see how well it worked. After cropping the non-relief portion from the cookie, the results speak for themselves:


5834
5835

Absolutely no smoothing or sculpting has been done to this relief at all, aside from cropping. I'm still blown away by this having used many different touch probes in the past. This scan was done on my own proprietary system. Late nights and lots of research are finally paying off!


As far as pricing goes for 3D digitizing and machining, it depends on the material, size, quantity and depth (slices or not). I generally charge $100/sq ft to carve in SF and $125 & up for digitizing depending on the part.



-B

paco
11-08-2006, 11:02 PM
Good work Brady!

Keep us post.

8-)

btk
11-09-2006, 02:04 PM
Brady,

Eagle look great.
What is the cropped image of the chocolate?
Is that a rendering of the scanned data that has been cropped, or is that cropped photo of actual milled part of scanned data (if so, looks as though you milled directly into chocolate :-))

Brian

Brady Watson
11-09-2006, 02:41 PM
Brian,
That's the actual cookie on the left (above post) and the resulting scan data on the right brought into ArtCAM, cropped & shaded to a chocolate color. Base plane/material was toggled off to just show the relief.

Here's a 2D & 3D view in Pro showing it using the default settings and no chocolate color etc.


5836

applik
11-09-2006, 04:51 PM
Brady,

Nothing like having your "cookie" and eating it too! Sorry, I couldn't resist. The eagle is really neat. Great looking paint job too. Is slicing hard to do?

Looking forward to the 3D reliefs. Will we be able to get them in art or rlf format? Why redesign the wheel, if it's already been done for you. Good deal.

Shari
AZ

Brady Watson
11-09-2006, 05:12 PM
Thanks Shari,
You can find the 'Slicer.exe" on the ArtCAM install disc in the "unsupported" folder. Simply open it up, find a relief, enter your material thickness & it slices it accordingly. Then just paste the slices into Pro onto your material blank and toolpath..Doesn't get easier than that in ANY program!!!

RLF will be one of the formats we will offer in addition to STL and possibly SBP for those who wish to cut without the need for a CAM package. That should cover just about everybody's needs from noob to professional.

-B

normand
11-10-2006, 07:01 AM
Great copie of a carving. Watch for copywright. 32 hrs seem like a long time " Doesn't get easier than that in ANY program!!! " maybe . Can you slice on an angle?can you slice verticaly or both on the same piece? Easier is not always.....

Brady Watson
11-10-2006, 10:27 AM
Normand,
If there is an easier program out there for slicing than 3 clicks of a mouse, I'd like to know about it. Why would you want to slice on an angle when you only have a 3 axis machine? Reliefs can be sliced AND panelled in ArtCAM to make any sized design managable for your CNC.

-B

lpcsales
11-10-2006, 04:18 PM
Oookkaay...I'm a newbie at this 3D stuff and admit it. What exactly is slicing and when would you need to slice?

Sorry for the stupid questions... (i'm really embarassed, (red faced))

David

harryball
11-10-2006, 05:38 PM
oh oh oh oh, I know!

Let's say you have a 12" deep carving, slicing can take the carving and break it up into 3" layers. So you would have four 3" layers to carve on your bot since it can't carve the full 12" at one time.

When you carve each layer the top layer will have much of the detail, the lower layers will have flat tops to glue the above layer to.

Put it all together and you can make statues!

Robert

Brady Watson
11-10-2006, 07:30 PM
Normand,
Thanks for the compliments. I believe that you are confusing 'slicing' 2.5D reliefs for toolpath generation with 'slicing' 3D meshes with the intention of sectioning parts (IE- arms, legs, etc) ArtCAM is not suited for that type of mesh manipulation. You can do this in Rhino if you need to in order to section off parts of let's say a statue by body parts. Is this what you are talking about? If not, please give me an example where you would want to do an angled slice...You may call this something different where you live than we call it here.

-B

normand
11-10-2006, 09:23 PM
Your welcome
5837

normand
11-10-2006, 09:38 PM
For the case of the statue ,instead of 4 layers ,4 sides and a top. You get more detail that way.+ you save on material and milling time. More than 3 click but not that many more.

Brady Watson
11-10-2006, 10:26 PM
OK, I thought that's what you might have meant. Thanks for clarifying.

-B

normand
11-11-2006, 07:39 AM
So artcam wont slice on an angle or verticaly, you know what I mean ?Even with a 3 axe machine. And I am not confusing 2.5 or 3d or anything else dont try to pull any blarney on me .

Brady Watson
11-11-2006, 01:44 PM
Whatever gets the job done for you is the right software. Looks like you've got it all figured out with Rhino. Good job!

-B

myxpykalix
11-11-2006, 11:42 PM
Nice job Brady....Do you need an apprentice? I;ll sweep up the floor if i can watch over your shoulder! If you have some type of list of potential contacts for your relief collection when completed please put me on the top of the list. I would like to hear more about the new scanner technology you are using? GOOD JOB!

normand
11-12-2006, 03:28 PM
Brady you wrote (I believe that you are confusing 'slicing' 2.5D reliefs for toolpath generation with 'slicing' 3D meshes ) there is a difference Because 2.5is one thing. And 3d is full round or like your cookie.So your cookie is mesh you cannot slice it. Your eagle is mesh so you cannot slice it. Now I get it
Normand

Brady Watson
11-12-2006, 04:46 PM
No Normand. When speaking about ArtCAM, 'Slicing' refers to slicing in the Z plane ONLY. You can import an STL (or other 3d MESH) for instance and position it in ANY orientation you like and then hack away and remove portions of that to your liking. After you have hacked away arms, legs etc, you can then slice the Z plane to match the material that goes on your CNC. ArtCAM works in 2.5D, unless you create a file that also does the back side of the part by using an indexer or you flip the material.

Let's say you want to make a 3D elephant that is 10 feet tall and 16 feet wide, and 8 feet in Z depth...but your ShopBot is only a 4X4 with a max realistic cutting depth of 3" (room for material and bit) You can pull the 3D STL/DXF file into ArtCAM and then slice the Z plane. THEN using the toolpath panel function, proceed to break up your Z-sliced parts into 4X4' panels. This lets you make just about anything, any size. Of course there are situations where you are going to get undercuts and that is going to happen on ANY 3-axis machine.

Of course ArtCAM lets you crop off any part of the elephant that you don't want. Let's say you want to cut the tail ONLY, you can pull in the elephant and CROP off everything but the tail AS IT RELATES TO 2.5D. You won't get a back-side relief or 3D part in ArtCAM. Only what you can cut down to the spoilboard. Creating FULL 3D in ArtCAM is possible for 2 sided design, but it is just as easy to do it in 2 halves on the same model.

So yes...ArtCAM WILL slice in ANY direction or angle, but this depends on how you orient the model when you bring it into the program. Of course you can also create angled planes and zero out any part of the relief using any number of tools in the program. Personally, I hack apart FULL 3D meshes in Rhino and pull them into Pro to machine. If I have to do a 360° part, I will just pull that part in, paste it, then do it again, but paste it at 180° from center the 2nd time.

This is FULL 3D. Note that you can see portions of the ENTIRE 3D file, including portions that would be undercuts:


5838

This is the ArtCAM Slicer.exe, setup to cut the same file pasted into Pro, with a a material thickness of .75" each:


5839


This is Pro showing all 3 slices brought into the program ready to be cut in .75" thick material:


5840

"Slicing" away ANY portion of this relief can be done easily using any number of tools in Pro (IE the sculpting tools - eraser, zero selected vector, zero by color etc)

Here's an axample of an 'angled slice'...lines are purposely not straight:


5841

I have found there are very few things that cannot be easily modelled, prepared and toolpathed using ArtCAM. When something is easier to do in Rhino, I use that and pull it into Pro for post processing. You can't sculpt the relief (like moving digital clay around) in Rhino, but you can work with FULL 3D which is nice to do from time to time. In all of the 3D files that I have made & cut for customers, only a few were True FULL 3D. Unless you work for a themepark, there are very few paying customers that NEED full 3D. Most of the money comes from cutting 2.5D or what is commonly referred to as reliefs. Reliefs are 2.5D, much like those found on a coin.

Here's Slice2 (the center one) with 'angled slices' quickly nested on a sheet of material. Parts can be oriented any which way you choose. Once they are setup how you like them, you can toolpath them and cut the parts:


5842


-B

normand
11-12-2006, 05:45 PM
Ouff!! that is good for artcam user you Can slice on an angle and you can slice verticaly or both on the same piece. Then why ask me why would want to slice on a angle?

Brady Watson
11-12-2006, 06:07 PM
Language/regional barrier most likely...Glad to see we understand each other now!


-B

normand
11-13-2006, 06:25 AM
Whatever...I dont understand why you say (Most of the money comes from cutting 2.5D or what is commonly referred to as reliefs. Reliefs are 2.5D, much like those found on a coin.) So if your eagle is relief, and your cookie is relief, you should be able to do it in Insigna wich is 2.5D software. But no . Why? because you need a 3d program to cut 3 axe simultaniously. When I look at the vertical slice in your G.I.Joe they look like you run a ball nose cutter throu the simulation , but Whatever gets the job done for you is the right software. For your elephant I would offset the surface 1foot inside to get a 1foot thick shell then I would slice this shell.Imagine all the material saved. How is my english this morning do you understand what I am saying. I am kind of a newbee to cnc carving I have my sb for almost 3 year now, but prior to that I work with router by hand for over half my life I am 50.

bleeth
11-13-2006, 06:30 PM
Normand: Insignia is a 2-d program except for the ability to v-carve selected fonts and vectors. It is possible to "fool" it into 2.5 d on certain textures, etc. by having it machine between vectors that vary in width, but such typical tools as area clearence, pocketing, or limiting depth of cut to various heights in one project do not make it true 2.5 d. You can't for example, carve a cameo relief of a face in Insignia. The ability to properly toolpath and create these things is why Pro costs so much more. True 3-d carving needs at the minimum an indexer which can do much to simulate true 3-d or a five axis router and the software to drive it, both of which start putting one into some extreme investment places. With Pro, one can take the model of Brady's head that he uses as his atavar on the Pro forum, split it properly, and carve the parts and then reassemble them to end up with a 3-d relief, but to truly carve it from a single block of material like a sculpted bust it takes different software and hardware. This difference between 2-d, 2.5d, and 3.d is something which Artcam reps are quick to point out when asking them about their respective features. Having taken a look at the lovely carving in your profile (You are obviously an artist as well as an artisan) I can say that Artcam Pro can do that, Insignia can't, and you don't need 5 axis abilities to do it. Having looked at your web site, I see that you do many fantastic true 3d carvings. I envy you your fine sculpting ability.

Dave

PS. My wife fell in love with "Joie"

normand
11-14-2006, 06:56 AM
Good morning Dave
Thank to you and your wife. I gess this 2 2.5 3 d is a debatable subject. But have a look at this http://www.shopbottools.com/software.htm It is from sb and for them partwizzard and insignia are 2.5d software. As you can see in my post96 above ,I take a 3d form split it on angle ,I spread the part beside each other and toolpath the four pieces .I may not have explaned it in detail but Brady understoud and explained in detail. I have been doing all that with rhinocam cheaper and easier. rhinocam has 4axe and 5axe capabelity but I am not there yet, We better not open that can.

bleeth
11-14-2006, 10:32 PM
Normand: Although I barely scratch the surface in the full capabilities of Artcam I have learned from others who are truly proficient in both it and Rhino that in some ways they are complimentary to each other. I have seen many beautiful projects in which the developers had need of both to fully realize their project. I think, that with softweare, as with many tools, the more you learn to use a particular item, the more you see the need for a slightly different one to enhance it.

normand
11-15-2006, 02:10 AM
Hi Dave Maybe no software has it all ,but before I get Artcam I would buy an indexer, a 5hp spindle a couple of fein vacum cleaner for the same money. I hope you enjoy your new place, Look foward to see your web site up again.

john_david
11-21-2006, 09:36 AM
Not as cool as the above but still COOL

JD
5843"}

john_david
11-21-2006, 09:39 AM
heres another one for my house


JD

5844"}

5845"}

paint needs alittle work but all in all I'm happy

Brady Watson
11-21-2006, 05:18 PM
John,
Cool is all relative! I am definately digging the 'stump' carving! Nice! (Even though hard to see in that pic)

-B

john_david
11-21-2006, 06:28 PM
Yea That pic does not do it justice
Its a crotch where a branch came ouy of the tree
(walnut) and its about 2.5 inches thick

Thanks
JD

normand
11-22-2006, 06:37 AM
Morning John
Plenny cool to me .What strike me most is that the dog is standing on the ground,not like so many cnc carving that are floating in mid air. Great. Did you do that on shopbot?

john_david
11-22-2006, 10:05 AM
Normand,
Yes that was done on the Shopbot prt,roughed wth a 1/4 inch bit and finished with a 1/16 bit,
Then after minimal sanding coated with natural Watco oil

Thanks
JD

gene
11-23-2006, 12:29 AM
Hi all,
Does anyone use Rhinocac 3d software ?
What are the pro`s and con`s
Thanks for any info you can share.