Advice on Mounting HDU Sign

[reiser25]

I am looking for advice on mounting this 1 1/2" hdu sign. My plan was to use west systems epoxy to attach 2 full length "z" clips cleats to the back of the sign and a "mating" cleat to the 4x4 cedar stringers behind the sign. The sign is 42" tall by 68" long. Deepest cut is 3/8". There will be two signs mounted back to back with a 4 x 4 cedar post between them. I plan to use 6 x 6 cedar posts for structure. I have concerns about wind and warping issues. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance


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sign mount
SIGN MOUNT LAYOUT.pdf (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/315/SIGN_MOUNT_LAYOUT-41488.pdf) (48.1 k)

[joe]

Josh,

I'm sure there are lots of mounting techniques used. Here is one of my favorites. We have a sign in the shop with this type of locking system ready to go. I'll take a photo or two if it will help.

One should take extra precaustions with this material since it doesn't like screws, metal, wood or most anything else except HDU. It's been on the market for some time and we are seeing more and more problems when it comes to installation. I'm taking photo's on a regular basis of HDU failures.

Attached are photo's of a sign, which I published on the SB forum, two or three years ago. I also did a step by step on the fabrication as well as the installation.

The advantage of using this locking system is two fold. First, it requires no bolts or screw during installation and goes together like a dream. Second; It holds the post tight, eleminating any seperation in the future.

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You will need to "Gorilla Glue" your panels back to back with a spacer between. This will make the sign very stiff, keeping it from warping.

I'm now seeing stress fractures in with HDU which has been pole mounted. Wind here in Okla. ranges up to 50mph. and HDU Will Not flex. It cracks. So be very careful when pole mounting.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

This is so great to see all the options. i like both. Joe, i have never seen this type of mounting system. i like it. Do the post covers screw to the posts so you can slide post cover to align cleats and remove sign in future?

Josh,if i did your method i would probably also use some screws in the rear so that sign could not be removed to easily as well. I am sure you are going to do that anyway. How deep below grade are your posts going?
i hope others respond too.

[rb99]

Thanks for all the tips on the down sides of HDU.

I will use cedar for my next project- and I am sure you have saved me much aggravation. I hate putting so much energy into a project to have it fail in an unforeseen way.

RB

[reiser25]

Thanks everyone for the input. This is a pic of the cleat that will run lengthwise across the sign. There would be two of these top and bottom approx. 5' long.

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The west systems tech support told me that as long as I epoxy the aluminum panel clip to the raw HDU and run a screw into the material, back it out and fill hole and screw with epoxy then that would make it almost impossible to be removed. Any thoughts?
Joe,
I like your idea. Basically the same french cleat principle as the panel clip just used in a different way. I too would like to use a system that doesn't require hardware to install. We will have to see if this will stand the test of time.

Josh Reis

[joe]

Josh,

Good for you.

Wedges like the ones we're talking about have been around since Adam & Eve. I'm just sure the sign industry will discover it very soon. I bet Noahs are was built with them.

Wess is a good company but there is no need to purchase the aluminum clips and dink around with little screws. The screws are only used to keep the clips in place while the epoxy dries.

I would suggest you consider making your own HDU cleates which run the total legnth of the sign. That way you have extra stregnth as well as a good locking system. You can make them out out of scraps HDU. These can be made from many scraps around the shop. Once epoxied they are perminent.

Precision Board makes, in my opinion, a better epoxy because Wess is thin as water and you have to purchase their thickner to get best results. As a matter of fact Lowes makes the same epoxy as Wess and they're just around the corner. PB Resin is like molases and is more user fiendly. Costs less than Wess too.

I feel confident you are on the righ track and the sign is hold up over time.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)


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These photo's were taken back in 2006 showing how a HDU wedges can matche up to wood wedges. The top cleat, in these photo's are HDU scraps. The pine wedges below them are lagged bolted and glued to the posts.

Once every thing is matched up the HDU wedges are Gorilla Glued into each end of the sign. The reason for G Glue is because it's gap filling and the whole signs becomes a solid unit. I wouldn't use epoxy on this step.

[reiser25]

Thanks for the pics Joe. There really are many ways to do any one task. Now I think I may be on information overload and not sure which way to mount the sign. I just know that I don't want it to fail. I'm sure I will find some solution by combining all of these great ideas I have seen on the forum.

The west systems rep. told me to use a new product they call Six 10. Here is the link.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/new-six10-epoxy-adhesive/
It is mixed as it is dispensed and is supposed to be prethicked. It looks like a neat product for those of us who don't want a bunch of materials sitting around. But I'm sure it is a little more money at $20/tube. Anyway thought I would pass this info. on if it could be of use to anyone.

JR
http://www.sourceworkscnc.com/

[rb99]

When I was installing signs I wouldn't have such close tolerances- I would want some wiggle room if the post did not install perfectly etc.

Also I wonder how well they take to the post shifting or warping...?

In Canada we have winter and frost heave to deal with. With those wedges the sign takes the stress between the posts.

I really like the system though...it is very slick and clean. Especially with 2 sided signs.

Cheers,


RB

[joe]

I can tell Richard knows what he's talk about when it comes to tollerances. I'm glad you brought that topic up.

The locking system in the photo's are about 1/2" larger in the sign than their counter points on the posts. You will need plenty of slack. Once dropped into place they float. A knowledgable theif could easily pinch it.

I'm glad Josh is in infromation overload. There are dozens of techniques for mounting. This is only one which you may use somewhere down the road. Also it's good for other viewers who are seceretly viewing.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)