Shopbot Bulletin Board (Note to admins)

[wcsg]

This is a suggestion Thread

I hope this is not taken out of context but I'm saying this as a suggestion.

Can we get a a new board?

This software is terrible.

There is such a wealth of information here and it's so hard to post and to add attachments. It's ashame, I've been on two years now, and as much traffic and post generation there is I feel like I'm driving around in my parents old Pinto. The search engine is awful and makes it hard to find topics.

I've noticed a couple of things lately, like people with exterior blogs and now a new "Show and Tell". All this can be fused to one.

I have a solution.

"Invision Board" coupled with their "Gallery" and "Blogs" That way the search engine will not only kind keywords and phrases in the forum but also the gallery and blogs. Members will get instant notification from all three on comments, (I don't get email notification from this board, anymore) reply's and PM's. Top of it all, it is so user friendly you won't have to think your creating code to make a simple post with emotionicons, pics or other bbcode.

I will donate MY time and money if needed, this would be my contribution to this community. At least get a free PHPbb board. You can still modulate it with the regular Shopbot main website, for easy switch back and forth. I can't even get to the website from here.

A sample of my site

Front Portal Page
http://thesignsyndicate.com

Forum
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

Gallery for show & Tell
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?automodule=gallery&req=sc&cat=4

Blogs
http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?automodule=blog

All three aspects integrated into one. This is an IPB Board, there is also VBulletin and a few others, but IPB is my suggestion, it's more professional.

I only suggest because I like this community and as more info gets input, it's harder to find and help other's.

[myxpykalix]

My suggestion along those lines, is that when i want to put a picture in i have to shrink it down and kill the resolution to the point you can't see good details. Maybe this has a higher limit than 50k. I would like to be able to put several pictures up with a description to show details that you can't do here.
Also when you have nonshopbot (but related) issues (like dust collectors) you can post it there without it being censored and deleted.
My 2 cents.

[wcsg]

With the board I'm suggesting it will automatically shrink down,then enlarge once you click it, to see the full detail of something needed to be seen

[paco]

An upgrade would be nice... would make it up to the user contributions. I second Erik's idea.

[rustnrot]

I'm hoping to demonstrate with this post that you can, however, use external linking to post a bigger picture. This one of my "air spoilboard" as Ed Conley described it in the Atlanta Camp...

Unfortunately, I just found out you cannot imbed an external linked (larger) image. Oh well, click here for a bigger image........

I vote for better software as well....

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m178/rustnrot/Gar%20Wood/gar_rout_2.jpg

[wcsg]

Forgot to mention, in fear of losing info, going IPB this board can be converted so nothing in content is lost

[hines]

Erik, great post! I've been reading this board for 2-3 years and been posting for the last year. I couldn't tell you how many times I look for an old post containing a tip or trick for the bot only to end up depressed not finding it through this archaic system (no offense mods, you do the best job with what you have). I participate in a few other hobby forums and the following is my favorite setup http://www.chiptalk.net
I am not trying to dismiss any of the mods efforts with this post, only to help create a better board. From what I have seen, this is one of the first threads on this subject.

[bcammack]

Many boards don't even allow upload of images.

You have to upload them to a photo-sharing web site somewhere (or even your own site, most ISP accounts come with a personal web page and some storage space) and then paste an image link URL into your message.

[Forum Admin]

Good suggestions. At the time, we went with this forum software because it did allow uploading images whereas another board that had, to us, a more pleasing look but did not allow images at that time.

Text downloads quickly. Not everyone has high-speed internet and a batch of images greatly increases download time. I do check this forum using a dialup connection from time to time and can understand the frustration of users stuck in places where dialup is all that's available.

Re combining topics under major headings. Do you prefer all topics visible on the front page even if you have to scroll down to see them all? Wwould you prefer to see all of the front page on a single screen but you'd have to open each major topic to see secondary topics - this would mean clicking on "Software" on the home page to open a page listing Control Software, Part Wizard, etc as secondary topics.

[pfulghum]

THe value of this forum is two fold...

Current conversation
and
Archived content

I see myself getting into the archived content regularly. What about the archives???

-- pat

[wcsg]

One advantage on that IPB software is those uploaded images are thumbnails for quick loading until you click on them.

[paco]

Yes Erik, that is indeed a nice feature.

Another thing that I like is page sequence when a thread reach a certain number of posts...

I like to get emailed when I get reply from the threads I subscribe to or have contribute to...

I would like to make 0.25$ on every post I make too...!
8o)

[hines]

Just wondering, is this a dead issue? I know they were saying that a new board wouldn't load fast on slow speed internet connections, but I was reading on the subject and found that there is far more broadband (almost 75%) customers compared to analog modem customers in the US. In business' it's up to 92% of all internet connections are broadband. In other countries it's making huge jumps every year. http://www.nielsen-netratings.com/pr/pr_060621.pdf

Hate to see this die over something that is a not a problem for the majority of users out there.


Dave

[wcsg]

I was wondering about this issue myself. Is this site looking into a new board?

[myxpykalix]

This discussion kind of bled over to this thread:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/31/18490.html?1172007109

Some of the hilites of my message was
1)they need to do a poll or survey to see the average speed of users and i think they would see a majority have better than a 56k speed.

2) Maybe have a seperate section for "high speed Show and Tell" for those who want to post a more detailed better resolution picture of their work.
No one will convince me that a 50k picture is as good as a 800k picture that is bigger than 640x480.
I think we need a place also where we can ask questions on shopbot/workshop related issues without posts being deleted and threats of being banned.
I have been "spanked" on more than one occassion, i guess when you ask 400 questions you're bound to unwittingly ask the wrong question once in a while.
I don't know about others but when i make a project frankly i like to talk about it. I would like to make a page detailing how i made that. I think others would do that to if the opportunity was there. Given the participation i've seen in the camps there are TONS of ideas out there that are untapped because we don't have a convienent vehicle to share them on.
I can think of tons of good questions to ask for this survey....
I can't tell you how many guys i have talked to off the forum via email and telephone and how much i've learned from them.
My comments are only meant to make this a better place for sharing.

[brian_harnett]

Actually I use both broadband and dial up, this board runs slower on my dial up than the wood carving illustrated board powerd by V bulletin.
This one seems to take a lot longer to load compared to several others.

[dray]

I agree.. There could be an easily accessible wealth of info on this forum but ppl cant upload files to share with others, links are too hard to post, alot of other problems that discourage ppl from sharing their efforts.

I found a dxf on the site here the other day and had to email the guy to ask for a copy. he said he had posted it but I couldnt find it.

[wcsg]

Did I mention that IPB boards won;t slow down dial up users because all images are thumbnails until clicked on.

And.

They have a download section that gives a nice lil thumbnail of what that file is.

[keith_outten]

I run a vBulletin forum, we chose vBulletin because it is capable of growing beyond our expectations. The software is well supported and upgrades always add new features that everyone enjoys. vBulletin also uses thumbnails for pictures, this keeps the speed reasonable for dialup users and allows us to provide a larger pic size for files.

We receive over 640,000 hits per day and have been online for over 4 years running vBulletin so I can vouch for the quality of their software.

[dray]

Any feedback ADMINS?

[myxpykalix]

This thread has been running about a month....I've seen nothing yet. I would be willing to put the time and effort into setting up something off this forum for a better system of show and tell, even if its temporary, if anyone is interested in posting pictures and descriptions let me know. I'm not interested in competing with this forum just an additional place to show and tell and vent if you want to.

[hines]

Would you use vBulletin, IPB, or ?. Might be good to try something out. If it were a success then the admins would be able to see the results without having to risk changing their current setup. I say work with Erik and Keith. Their sites seem to be setup pretty well. I'll help out in any way I can.

[dray]

Someone just set one up and migrate files! I have been looking off and on all day long and nearly 1/3 of the threads are asking authors for files, besides Ive had threads deleted etc.

Yahoo boards are even pretty good w alot of space, Im going to set one up there if no one jumps on it.

The other thing is.... Who still uses dial up? Its kind of a waste of time when you can 100x the transfer speed for another few bucks a month.

[danhamm]

Shopbots are sold all around the world..and there are a lot of places that don't have access to anything but dialup..

[dray]

I traveled to 12 different countries in the last 2 years and there was cable or dsl in all of the hotels... Ill ask on main board who has or doesnt have dsl, but this board could reallly be an easy way to get help and files.

All the other boards I use, like cnczone and a bunch of others use an easier interface, easier to upload docs, photos, files.

The more user friendly the less likely to scare off people that may have some huge insight on something we may want to learn.

I know its an ordeal to move forum but for me when i read a new post, its really advantages to see a pic of what they are talking about.

Ill bet that less than 3% of the users are on dialup.

As with opensource software the easier it is to modify or to get info on the more popular the product is.

There are thousands of shopbots out there and maybe 50 pics of theings ppl created, its a shame to waste the collective talent here because of ppl's frustrations about posting pics, files etc..

Anyways thats my 2 cents on it

[myxpykalix]

As I said before, some type of simple survey to determine the average user connection type, whether they would upload more pictures, and other relevent questions might help determine what type of software to use, but they have to make the effort to ask the questions...

[Brady Watson]

Migration to a new message board would be a BIG undertaking, and one has to ask, is it REALLY necessary? Sure, I would love the board to be updated to the latest and greatest interface, but it seems to be working just fine for most things that you need to get across. I would guess that with all of the production changes and tooling up that SB has to do for the new tool that it would be a wild diversion to update the board rather than spending time doing what needs to be done for rolling out the new PRS tools.

The dial-up thing...a hotel in a metro area is one thing. They are connected to the grid and have access to the broadband networks. NOT EVERYBODY DOES! My friend lives just outside of New Orleans and can/could only get dial-up at his house BEFORE AND AFTER Katrina. There are many places that can only get dial-up in the US & Canada, not to mention other places around the world.

Attachments and pictures are limited to 50k & 640X480. There are any number of programs out there that you can use to reduce the size of a picture without losing much detail in the photo. There is a FREE program that I use call PIXresizer that you can download externally here (http://www.crustcrawler.com/products/arm5.php?id=menu0sub5) Pull in your picture, resize and post it on the board. You can still get your idea across without it requiring a ton of bandwidth. This picture was 1024X768 and 236k. It shows enough detail to get an idea across:


8530

If you have pictures, videos and other files that HAVE to be larger than the limit, or you are just too lazy to resize them, you would do best to host them on your own server or an external blog, Flickr or a whole array of other places, as many users on this board already do without complaint. Then you can direct others to your site with a link and show them whatever it is you couldn't do here. Just about every ISP gives you free webspace to host a site, pictures or files.

I think it's nice that ShopBot hosts this board on their dime...notice there are no advertising banners and other distractions plastered all over the board. This board is simple and clean...and it's got more useful information on it (in my opinion) on CNC Routing (and many other topics) than any other board on the net. I'm sure, as with any software out there, that the board will eventually be upgraded to something else...In the meantime, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

Just my $.02
-B

[paco]

Isn't Quarter Dollar = $0.25

[richards]

Brady,
Your link took me to Crustcrawler, where I couldn't find the PIXresizer. However, I did find it at Bluefive. (http://bluefive.pair.com/downloads.htm)

[Brady Watson]

Thanks Mike...I must have left that on the clipboard from last night...LOL!

-B

[keith_outten]

My 2 Cents

Running an online forum can become a huge undertaking. The costs associated with hosting a state of the art forum can also rise faster than you would expect. Many are sucked into the deals that hosting companies offer that are so cheap they figure they can cover the costs out of pocket.

In the beginning its easy, but things get real complicated when you grow and start hosting thousands of Members. We host our woodworking forum on our own Linux server with a dedicated Internet connection. The reason forums are more complicated is forums require a database and the hosting companies will start increasing their fees as you increase your access to their database and start consuming clock cycles on their server. Bandwidth is the second issue that comes into play and is the major reason that file sizes must have some limit placed on them.

The third issue is labor, it is time consuming to run a forum that is active. Anyone can do it for a few months or even a couple of years. A forum should be a long term commitment with a Staff that keeps everything running smooth and is able to deal with and resolve problems quickly.

I have a brand new PRTalpha at work and a second one downstairs in my workshop. Neither one is running when I am working on The Creek here in my shop office. Thats why I'm not surprised that there hasn't been a response from the Forum Admin here yet, the daily chores are more time consuming than many would expect.

I should add that I really appreciate the work and the expense that the folks at ShopBot expend keeping their Forum online. Talk ShopBot is valuable, the collective knowledge here is what makes ShopBot the tool that it has become. I would have never gotten off of square one without the information that exists here.

.

[wcsg]

I don't think it's about lazyness in regards to resize pictures (new boards to this automatically) and videos. It's just a big pain in the ass on this board. A lot of the forum code here is too. Also this board does not need adverts because it's paid by the machines Shopbot sells and services they perform. Why would they have adverts?

This forum is one of the biggest resources the company has. It's to their advantage to covert it to a new board and put someone on it and make it easier for the average lamesman.

For all the reasons I stated above in previous posts, it's to the advantage of the company and the community. I understand some members might be scared of change, but don't. It's like going from a old PR to a new PRSAlpha
You want advantages right? Otherwise why upgrade your old machine? Like I said, I would help out in anyway possible, volunteering MY time if needed.

It's a small step but big pull forward. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass myself but I know from running my own forum board that it can greatly improve this community in communication and trading of ideas and thought.

And this is my buck 'o' five!

[hines]

You have a good point Erik. The main reason I considered a Shopbot was the info I received from this forum. I even purchased my bot last year from a posting in the For Sale thread. It only makes sense for Shopbot to invest in the forum since this is one of it's biggest advertisers and support group. Anytime I hear someone say they are considering Shopbot it's because of this forum and their phone support. It would only make sense to dedicate money and resources to this forum like they do for the rest of the company. Again, I'm not saying this current forum is unusable, I just think that it could be awesome with a few upgrades.

[keith_outten]

Erik,

I have to agree with you concerning the value of this Forum, the advantages that new software would provide and that some Members will always be concerned when a change in format is considered.

The idea of converting from one format to another is a huge decision and would require a lot of research, even for an advanced Admin with plenty of database experience. I know that it is done everyday but the level of difficulty is relative to experience. A trained system administrator is the right tool for the job if it is to be done reliably.

I would also expect it would take some time for ShopBot to consider their options and course of action as well as a timeline should they decide to undertake a conversion. They may very well need to outsource the job to someone with the necessary skills if they don't have the skills in house.

We are in the process of outfitting a new server for our Forums. Installing the operating system and all of the support programs is a bit of a job, and we are not changing formats. We must upgrade several programs before the new version of vBulletin will work so its not just a matter of copying everything from one server to another, its a major rebuild from scratch.

I will look forward to any future improvements in this Forum, until then it will be much like waiting for the next generation of ShopBots to hit the shelves all the while using what we have to keep things going as smooth as possible.

Keith

[wcsg]

In regards to converting the boards data base, it's a free service provided from a company like Invision Power Board when you purchase their software.

They converted my old BB in less than 24 hours. So it was no hassle on my part. Let the software company do it is my suggestion.

[myxpykalix]

I guess you could look at it like this. Take the collective number of posts we all make (400+) for me alone. Thats 400 phone calls to tech support i DIDN'T make. So you could look at it in the sense that this board saves them TONS of money on tech support alone. Instead of tying someone up on the phone, many time i ask here, sometimes its faster anyway if they are busy.

[keith_outten]

Erik,

Sounds like IPB is the best choice and the conversion would be painless.

Jack,

No argument from me, forums are clearly an asset to almost any business. Forums save time, promote products, provide tech support and are an excellent training venue.

Keith

[Forum Admin]

Several good suggestions that we'll research. Thanks for the input.

To return to the ShopBot website, click on the ShopBot logo that appears in the upper left of each page of this forum. There is also a link at the bottom of the Board Topics List page.

If you want to post lots of pictures without resizing to meet the current requirements, there are many free or low-cost places to do so. Flickr, Google, Yahoo, SmugMug have been suggested. We do allow active links in the posts so you can easily type in the URL where your pictures are located. (As long as spammers are relatively infrequent, active links will continue.)

Faster downloading due to improved software and better search options are high on the list of things we'd be looking to improve. File sharing is not. Lost, misplaced drivers and posts are one thing. Posting cutting files leads to copyright issues and the obvious, but often overlooked, fact that ShopBot models, setups and software vary greatly.

Again, thanks for the input. It looks as though this thread is beginning to repeat so it's now closed. Send any further comments to to Forum Admin.