Sign Material

[3ps]

I was wondering if any of you experienced sign people could fill me in on a cheap way to get into outdoor signs. I do not have the money to put into the commonly used sign materials(HDU) or have them readily available in my area. For this reason I want to stick to something I can get at Lowes or HD. Maybe glue up 2x4's or has anyone tried mdf. I have a friend wanting me to help him with a sign for a salon he and his wife owns. I would like to do some raised letters on a back ground to give it some dimension. Thanks for any help!

Doug

[cartar929]

Doug some PVC sheets might be a better solution, I wouldn't choose MDF. MDF would take a lot of work to make it strong enough to with stand any sort of weather elements.

What is your budget for this project?

[3ps]

I am not sure on how much he wants to put in to it. I just found MDO 1/2 one good side for 38.00. I thought about using two pieces of it with maybe 1.5 " spacer between the two for thickness and then edge it with 1" painted material? the sign will be two sided. Thanks

Doug

[joewino]

You're probably not going to like my answer....

You have already begun a reputation for cheap signs and you haven't even made one yet. Materials are not what determines the selling cost of a sign because it's the design that is most important.

Your customer is going to pay for the materials through the cost of the sign, so price the work so that you can use the appropriate materials.

I wouldn't suggest using anything but PVC (at least .5" thick), MDO, or HDU. Other substrates are available (like aluminum) but would be more difficult for a beginner.

If you are going to get into the sign business, begin by doing the best work you can with the best materials possible. You can always go down on your prices but it is very hard to go up once you start getting clients.

Lowering your prices just to get work is a downward spiral that ends with you going out of business. There is always someone willing to do the job cheaper than you...but they won't last long.

Good luck. Keep us informed as to how the sign business works for you.

[ghostcreek]

Doug, some wise words from Raymond. Stay away from MDF, nice for experiments and trying out designs (dulls bits too!). Look into premade sign blanks. Perfect plank makes a great product at a great price. I am not a sign maker, but have made signs. There is a wealth of information to be gotten from Guys like Raymond & Dick Akers. Using their knowledge will save you tons of time and money! But by all means experiment, but not on a product that will be on display for all to see. Just my 2.5 cents. Let us know how and what you do, but do it!

[VisionAccomplished]

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I am new to this site and seek professional opinions from this thread.

As a former local government administrator I now consult with governments and developers. We requested quotes for outdoor community welcome signs mounted to pvc posts installed in cement, 4' x 8' HDU rot resistant synthetic with hand carved lettering, 23k gold leaf. Prior experience seems to confirm that these sign boards withstand wheather elementts and the hand carved gold leaf retains (even improves) its shimmer quality.

One sign-maker suggested that HDU with MDO backing is inferior to Komacel for outdoor signs mounted between posts. However, his Komacel sign will not be hand carved (CNC machine). Another indicated that when following the correct procedure and application, HDU signs will not crack, which both he and the manufacturer will guarantee. He also suggested that non-HDU\MDO material can warp when between posts or mounted incorrectly. Two also reinforced the observation that hand carved lettering is superior to machine routing.

I would like opinions on these observations made between HDU hand carved gold leaf verses a CNC machine carved Komacel for outdoor mounting between posts? Please assume that all other variables are equal and that the signs will be guaranteed if cracking occurs.

Thank you.

[gc3]

Have Joe make 'em

Done deal.

GC

[carlcnc]

Tom
with all due respect,
why would specs call absolutely for handcarved?? If the purpose of these signs is to say Welcome[sic] then cnc carved should be fine. Your main concerns appear be final product appearance [hence the gold leaf],and structural integrity.
If someone in the committee is adamant about " handcarved" then they either A;
don't know what they are talking about or B; have an agenda.
As per Komacel[pvc] vs HDU. both have their pluses and minuses.
properly installed neither should crack/split/
Be danged if I would warranty goldleaf over pvc for an exterior sign though. too much thermal induced movement.
good luck
Carl

[joe]

Thank you Gene for the nice complement.

Very interesting post Tom. I wish every Shopbot fellow has a chance to read it.

Your questions are not unusual and very thoughtful. I'd suggest you first look for sign artists making the kind of signs you're interested in purchasing. They can to answer your questions about materials and techniques.

If I knew your location, I'd be glad to suggest names of shops in your erea. If you find someone in your community that may be best for both of you. But most of all, find someone who is making the kind of product that satisfies your needs. The materials and techniques will fall in line.

You have some excellent sign artist to choose from. Few of them are paid what they are truly worth. It a smörgåsbord of talent and materials.

Materials: Our country is so large, having all sorts of weather conditions. That should be taken consideration. When making signs for coastal area's with ocean conditions you would use different materials than arid, Death Valley locations.

Good luck with your project.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[dakers]

tom, the left sign is hdu with gold leaf. the shimmer is best when the router bit or carving is not a deep V for light reflection.
the hdu broke from vandals.
the sign on the right is color core with corian printed inlay and some special routing effects.
we have a company that only does park and government jobs like this.
we do not like to sell hdu for city entrance because of problems like this.
we like the signs to last a minimum of 15 years but we try to warn about material weaknsess and let the buyer beware.

What joe told you is good info for you moving forward. I am just giving you some info from experience. the hdu is all matthews acrylic poly with gold leaf done with art cam.