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Thread: Pricing V Carved Signs

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bedford Hills NY 10507
    Posts
    1,061

    Default Pricing V Carved Signs

    I'm trying to see if I my pricing for V-carving is in the ball park.

    I'm working with a sign company that supplies me with
    the sign blank-painted and masked ready to carve.
    They also send me the necessary file(s).
    All I need to do is carve the sign and they pick it up to finish.
    Great work ,if you can get it !
    My question-
    I've been charging per hour of machine time
    with a minimum of one hour cutting time .
    $200/1st hour
    $150.00/hour additional

    This includes Setup of materials and files

    What is the going rate?

    So far no complaints-
    Am I not charging enough/Too much?
    I'd like to expand to other sign shops

    Remember I'm in Westchester Co,NY (everything costs more here! Expect for air-At least for this week)

    I would appreciate any input

    Thanks
    http://www.WoodworkingByErminio.com

    Custom Cabinetry, Furniture ,CNC Services
    Email:Wberminio@msn.com
    914-666-8746 Shop/Office

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , Richmond VA
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Sounds way high to me, but if you're getting it, good for you.

    $200 per hour? If you charged me that I'd be looking for another vendor. You're doing wholesale work. If you're charging me $200 per hour, what am I supposed to charge my customer? $300? Most wholesale rates to sign shops I have heard or seen is in the $35-60 per hour range.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cnc routing, portland or
    Posts
    3,633

    Default

    it does seem high.they may not be complaining but are they singing your praises? it may be too high to get other customers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norman, Ok
    Posts
    3,251

    Default

    I think you're right on target with your pricing.

    I know how difficult pricing it is to discribe but here goes.

    For a small custom shop, that seldom engages in production work, it's necessary to work on a hourly basis. At my little shop we must, must, must invoice out a minimum of $1000 a day. A day is 8 hours, not 10.

    Here's why I think your within the range. On any day not all the time will be on carving. For example you will have customer time which includes discussion of project, invoicing time, no to mention cleaning up and maintenance of machine and unfortunately there will be mistakes which cut into the profit. At best you may get 4 or 5 jobs, like the one you discribed, completed in a full days work. At Best!

    My eyes squint on invoices of $200 dollars or less. That's the red line. I guarantee your customer is cleaning up on your good service and price.

    Joe Crumley
    www.normansignco.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , Richmond VA
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Joe, $1,000 per day, 8 hours is $125 per hour. That's almost 1/2 of what he's charging.

    I've stand by my comment, I've never seen wholesale sign work go for $200 per hour. I'm not sure I've seen much retail sign work go for $200 per hour.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norman, Ok
    Posts
    3,251

    Default

    Clueless,

    I full well understand your point. If you re-read my post, I don't think you can route for a full 8 hours. My point is this should include all the extra items I posted. Just receiving a job, talking to the customer and invoicing is at least half an hour not including everything else.

    So, I have a question for you. How many custom jobs do you produce in a day? Remember there are lots of other chores like the phone, paying bills, ordering materials, designing, just to mention a few.

    I also understand your point about your hourly rate. None of us will be charging the same. There are area's in the US that cost more to operate in. So that must be taken in consideration.

    One should divide their working day by the number of jobs they can complete. For example if you can get five jobs a day and mulitply it by $100. and that allows a good profit, your right on target.

    Believe me, devour low ball competiton, year after year. I seldom make invoices for less than $250 and I welcome competition that goes under our prices. Most of those are proud of how cheap they can operate. It's a loosing strategy. They struggle along and most close up in a couple of years. Although low ball pricing works for WallMart it's a killer in custom work and we encourage our competition to use that strategy.

    I'm not trying to tell you what to do but for those starting out, I'd be careful with thin pricing. It will sneak up on a business and shut you down.

    I was talking to Ray Chapman last week about this subject. We both agree, most everyone in the sign trade is making way too little money. Low pricing is a dangerous.


    Joe

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , Richmond VA
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Joe, thanks for your input. I'm not new to the business, the business has been around since 1998, so I'm very familiar with how to price. I can tell you I worked in small job shops and large manufacturing plants, all of which had millions of dollars worth of CNC equipment. I quoted all CNC jobs for many years and I never once quoted over $90 per hour and that was on machines that cost $100,000- $250,000.

    I wouldn't dream of setting my base pay rate of $200 per hour, or even $150 per hour. Walk into a Ford of Chevy dealer and see what their shop rate is. Probably $95 per hour, and I think everyone feels the same way about paying for a car to be repaired. Last thing I want is to be lumped in with car dealers.

    If you can get that, knock yourself out. I've watched many a shop close it's doors, not because they were too cheap, but because they were too expensive.

    I think asking for $60 per hour, wholesale, is reasonable. If anyone ever told me they wanted $200 per hour, I'd walk out the door. Charging that much is exactly what causes people to look at buying their own machine.

    Again, if you can get that, hats off to you, but it's not something I plan on doing. I'm not suggesting what anyone else is doing is wrong. I'm just saying that if I charged that much, I'd have no work, and if someone charged me that much, they'd have none of my business. That's just me. You might be happy paying $200 per hour.

    I know Doctors that don't make $200 per hour.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norman, Ok
    Posts
    3,251

    Default

    Steve,

    He starts out at a minimum of $200. No matter if it takes less than an hour.

    Please consider all the associated time it takes for us little guys to do one up jobs. So once again how many small jobs can you manage in a day. That's the point.

    Big shops can manage $60 dollars an hour for router work and make a good profit at it. They will invoice the art work, materials, painting, etc. seperately. Unlike a larger company you will have to shoulder more than just the CNC. So how many $60 dollar jobs a day can you manage? I can't do enough work, at that rate, to keep the doors open and I doubt you can either. If you can do 8 and gross $480 and if that works for you, you're on target.

    Are you most interested in how cheap you can work, or are you interested in expanding your business to higher class customers. This is a vital question. This is not to say there isn't a place for cheepie deepie work. Wish you were closer and I'd be sending you work.

    What ever works for you works for me.

    Joe
    Last edited by joe; 06-06-2010 at 02:38 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , Richmond VA
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Joe, I don't think making $60 per hour wholesale is "cheap". I do quite a bit of wholesale work and I've never been called "cheap", but what I have been called many times is "fair", which is a title I'm happy to live with. I know many of my wholesale clients had previously used the same person and they all say the same thing about him "Man, that guy is high, it kills me to take him work".

    I never want that reputation.

    $60 per hour is $480 per 8 hour day. That's $10,300 a month. I'll take that any day of the week. I can hire someone for $2,000 a month to do nothing but run the machine for those kinds of returns.

    Again, not saying you are wrong by any means, just saying I wouldn't pay anyone $200 per hour to make me a sign at wholesale cost.

    Retail, different story, wholesale? Not me.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
    Posts
    771

    Default

    There is nothing wrong with charging $150 an hour. But if you can, hide the price as a flat rate. Don't let the customer know the breakdown of the price - if at all possible.
    In my shop, I'm trying for a $1,000 a day for 1 cabinetmaker apprentice and 1 helper. I don't always make it but I'm not too far off. But I would never tell a client my goal or my rate per hour.
    Here is my rule of thumb: whatever you think it costs or how long it takes, charge double.
    As for shops going under, I've seen it first hand in Montreal. These people were not at the skill level that they advertised. Some even came from working at a customer service job and thought it was a good idea to open a cabinet shop or custom concrete shop.
    If you are like Joe who has a specialized skill, I don't think the customer would care about the extra $2000 for the job.
    It's about standing above the crowd. As they say "cream always rises to the top".
    Last edited by kevin; 06-06-2010 at 03:11 PM.

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