Minimum "Practical" Size Bed for Outdoor Signs?

[gerryv]

Realizing that this question will trigger some well deserved rolling eyes, I'm wondering what minimum size machine a small, one-man operation who's not targeting big, sophisticated jobs realistically needs to efficiently make signs for outdoor use that would, for example be used to advertise bed-and-breakfasts, small specialty retail shops, etc., located along the street and/or two-lane country roads.

I'm assuming that a Buddy 32 (32"x24") would be too small as one could not read the lettering if there was much? Is a 4'x8' table fine to do say 75% of these simpler signs without having to stitch most signs together for example?

Does it help if I say, often cutting/using just one sheet of material "if" realistic, using mainly Vectric Aspire and often using James booth type stock files, focusing mostly on 2.5D painted & goldleaf lettering type signs? Yep, no threat to the pro's

[John David]

Gerarld
When I purchased my first machine I saw a DEMO on a 4x4 machine. I thought this would be large enough for 90% of what I did. after thinking it thru I decided that a 4x8 would be a better choice, so that is what I ordered.
The "0" corner of that machine is used 90 % of the time making 2x3 and 3x4 signs. But only 2 weeks after getting the machine running I got a project that required a 4x8 sheet and I was really glad that is what I ordered. Other than floor space I would say a 4x8 is the most practicle, as all I have to do is purchase material and slap it on the table no PRE CUTTING required. Then I just cut the wast material off with the bot , throw away the scrap and shelf the remaining material.

Good Luck
JD

[joewino]

We have been using a 4' x 8' for a little over three years now and it is exactly what we needed. There are some times that a larger one would be helpful, but I can design around having to cut something bigger in one piece.

And since you are going to be doing signs you ARE competition for the pros. That's not a problem if you are going to be doing good work that is well designed and priced correctly - competition is always good. But, if you turn out sloppy stuff and give it away you will give the whole industry a bad name.

If you produce signs in exchange for money you are a professional. What type of professional is up to you.

[chiloquinruss]

What helped make my decision for a 4x8 was I looked at the differential between the price of a smaller machine versus a larger machine. I then figured how many jobs it would take to make up that difference. I also did this to decide between router versus spindle. Both decisions were made in favor of bigger and better. I've had the machine about 2 years and have paid for the machine even though I'm not in business, I bought it as a hobby machine, but . . . As Ted frequently says "we are all in the sign business"! Russ

[GlenP]

Hey Gerald. Dimensional signs in our area are a hard sell. People just don't seem willing to pay what they are worth. I have ran into guys doing them for a cheap price and they don't last long. These type of signs take alot of time to paint (properly). I find the design and cutting the easy part. My machine sits idle at times and I would welcome to cut your files for you. I do wholesale signs for other sign shops in the area as well as Kingston and Perth area. One of them just bought a small cnc to do his small signs but still gets me to d his stuff over 4 feet. Contact me to discuss, I love yakking about signs. Please don't do the signs for less than a fair price...I agree with Raymond it just makes it hard for all of us to make money and a living.

[gerryv]

A lot of good advise; thanks everyone.

What got me going on this is the fact that my son is just now starting up a custom furniture shop and guess who's wallet is out (chuckle). All hardwoods and exotics mainly for the deep-pocketed carriage trade he hopes but, being an old fart with quite a few years of self-funded business experience, I've been harping on the need for cash flow during the time it will take to even hit break-even; especially in these tough economic times with the threat of a "double dip" looming larger it seems.

We already have a Buddy 32 Standard with PC router and a 6' (non-standard) powerstick and I have Aspire and Partworks/3D which he plans to use mainly for building templates and jigs for his large shaper.

That doesn't represent much usage though so I've been preaching flexability and keeping the equipment busy and have suggested that he could still stick with his focus on the premium priced market by offering unique look, highly detailed signs that may require more than average time spent on painting/finishing. Stuff that some signmakers may shy away from because they'd need to price higher than they're used to due to the extra handwork involved. One example might be using the 'bot to do intarsia style cutting from hand selected and oriented blanks. Tinting/staining and finishing would be done using the conventional techniques used by fine furniture builders. Not to everyone's taste for sure and not cheap but, that said, a niche he'll be marketing to anyway.

Perhaps something else entirely that can be offered to the deep-pocketed "carriage trade" niche that are never truly down-and-out, at least by the standards most of us live by :-)

The Buddy 32 seems just a bit too small if some of these signs were to be placed a little set back from the street, 2-lane "fringe" roads, etc. but, maybe he could do some tests to see if there's even a market? Or, he may just say "Hey, I'm a furniture maker - make your own signs I also figured that a larger table could double as a vacuum bag table as he expects to do quite a bit of that and it amazing how quickly the BIG 2400 sq. ft. shop is shrinking!

[GlenP]

If I were you Gerry I would use the machine you have to do a line of mdf doors, corbels and perhaps setup a indexer as well. A indexer will benefit Steve's fine furniture to. Steve's shop is in a perfect spot to get walkin traffic. You have two other cabinet shops right next door.....bang on their door and see what small stuff the router can help them with. Just don't compete with them by doing kitchen cabinets. If they are not interested in any services you have to offer then perhaps bring in a line of wood cabinet doors and countertops to be what I call "sell through" items. They can generate cash flow if you get small woodworkers or hobbiest ordering them and giving you the measurements and specs. With the Rona right next to you if your price is fair you will get orders. If Steve needs any supplier names give me a call. I might drop by in the next few weeks to see the shop....if that is ok.