E-cab luvin

[chunkstyle]

As usual, it's Friday and I have just a few parts to cut to finish a job. Have just enough of a sheet in the rack to get my parts out of. A cabinet back and two drawer boxes with blind dado construction.
Using a .25" M.C. bit for my outlines and pocket cuts.
Machine runs around and does the pocket cuts first. Leaves off the pockets on the drawer box bottoms (there blind dado'd into the front and sides).
****! Forgot that the link wont cut the shoulders of any tenons that are .25" in length, according to Thermwood. Bug that needs fixing. All right, I'll cut them out manually.
Machine next asks for tool #15. This would be my 5mm bit for system holes. Only there ain't any on these parts. All right, I'm game. Let's see what it will do. Machine runs the bit over, after the change and zeroing off the remote touch pas, and proceeds to slam bit in material without the spindle coming back on. O.K..........!
Decide to call TW and see if they know anything. It's Friday and it's late in the afternoon so S.O.L.
Try removing the tool #15 from the link, since there is no use for it on this sheet, and re-write the file to SB. Tool errer results. Wants the Tool #15.
Shut everything off. Re-boot computer. relaunch the Link and re-zero machine.
Write file to the SB. Scan the preview. No more tool change for the 5mm bit!
Ran the file and finished the job. Anyone seen this kind of problem? I will say that the Chain operation that was calling for the 5mm bit was a part editor cut on the cabinets back panel. Perhaps the part editor cuts are causing some issues?

Tim

[Gary Campbell]

Tim...

Part Editor cust have always been problematic. In EVERY case where I used imported geometry, I had problems. I have since learned to use the eCabs editors to add these geometry's and have reduced errors substantially. (90% vs 10%)

There has been a few bugs that I have noticed since I have been cutting with V6 designed cabinets. These seems to be related more to eCabs V6 than the SB Link as I cut a couple hundred sheets designed with V5 early in the year on SB Link v18 without a glitch. There were of course differences in the cabinets, but as a rule they have all of my same "stuff", which means they are laced with PE cuts, ass. marks and blind dado geometry's

[Gary Campbell]

A reminder to Tim and any others that may experience "bugs" while cutting using the SB Link. I am fairly sure there will be a new version in the coming months. Thermwood does not have a ShopBot on which to do any testing. This makes it paramount that we users report any items we feel may need fixing.

To report an error:
From the SB Link while the erroneous job is still nested, press the export button and save a .cab file following the instructions.

Attach this file to an email and send to: program@thermwood.com with "SB Link Error" in the subject line. It may help to also include the TWD and ESJ file.

Give a description of the problem that you encountered and steps to repeat. Also include any that allowed a workaround. You may want to inlcude your phone number.

Remember.... If we dont report them, they wont get fixed.

[ken_rychlik]

The last thing I reported.. Flip opps pockets cutting climb instead of conv. ... Zero response. Not an email, not a phone call,,, Nothing.

I included the file export so they could trouble shoot it.

I even sent it straight to Scott V.

It seems like they would at least respond and tell me that they were looking into it, but not a word.

[chunkstyle]

The part editor cuts are a real problem and I would hope they look into it to get it fixed. E-cab is a good program but some of the parts do not function well or efficiently. Drawing geometry in the part editor is about as efficient as the LDE or room editor. There are companies that simply are better at producing simple robust cad programs that are better suited than trying to draw in part editor.
I hope that there is a solution to this problem with importing geometry into part editor to make cuts with. It is much more efficient to be able to down load dxf's from hardware manufacturers and lay it right onto your cabinet parts and make the appropriate cut. This would be a feature a lot more useful in the hardware hole editor as well. Why redraw what the hardware folks have done for us been a request to e-cabs from me for quite awhile.

We've done a lot of part editor cuts using imported dxf geometry in our cabinets without problems for a few years now. I have just had a job run off on a Thermwood that was part editor heavy and there was no problem. This is a problem that is in the Link. I hope that it gets fixed soon. Going back to drawing in E-cabs's would be a major step back in terms of speed, accuracy and efficiency.

Has anyone else noticed the dropped shoulder cuts on tennons that are .25" long? I doubt I'm the only one using 1/2" material. Just wondering.

Thanks,
Tim

[Gary Campbell]

I will check Monday and see if we should be using a different approach/email for reporting. I have also had a couple emails not responded to. A post ot 2 on the forum also. I was hoping that after V6 was up and running, the Link progrsmmers would be not so tied up.

Stay tuned, GC

[kerry_fullington]

Tim,

I want to make a couple of suggestions to you. If you plan to use eCabinets to produce your cabinet designs to send to your machine via the link it would greatly benefit you to spend the time to truly learn how to use eCabinets. I have been using eCabinets since it was first introduced and can tell you it will draw just about anything you can dream up. It works a little bit differently to other CAD products but is extremely powerful in its own right. You probably go back to your other programs because you are familiar with them. Don't do that.
First of all purchase The Nearly Complete Guide to eCabinet Systems Software. It is worth the money.
Use that manual to learn the Hardware Hole Editor and take an afternoon and create all the hole patterns you need from your manufacturers drawings. These will work much better than an imported dxf and you can eliminate all the holes you don't need. It is very important that you do this if you want to cut hardware holes properly.
Use the Part Editor for all your cuts. I can guarantee that you can do any cuts you will need using this. Once again use the manual and learn how to use this editor. Don't simply say it is buggy and go back to your other other CAD program. The Part Editor is great once you learn to use it. Again, part editor cuts created in eCabinets will work better than an imported dxf.
The Line Drawing Editor will do any thing you want, it is just a little tedious right now. They are working on improvements but it would be in your best interest to use it anyway. It is better than trying to use multiple programs.
There is nothing wrong with the room editor (Custom Layout). It may not work the way you are used to or how you want but it works great. Forget how you want it to work and learn how eCabinets works. It will draw anything you need.

Kerry

[Gary Campbell]

Tim...

I have just cut a 10 cab ent center with a good number of .25 tenons into both the cab sides and face frames. 100% tenons on the 1/2" material and 67% on the 3/4". Many had shelf holes by the editor, as top to bottom (line bored) holes dont keep equal spaces when put in with shelves. All had assembly marks, PE holes for levelers, and PE cuts for my web top cutouts. I even milled all the drawers out of board stock. My only errors were with labels. Seems the user selected the wrong one.

I also want to reaffirm what Kerry says above, the good and not so good, but especially about imported geometry. There are numerous posts on this forum concerning imported vectors returning unsatisfactory results in both the 2D and 3D versions of both Vectric and Delcam CAD/CAM softwares. It appears that eCabs is no different.

The fact is that the easy to use (read as familiar) CAD programs dont output the best vectors for cutting. They are drawing programs. They output lines for paper, not lines to cut. Geometry generated by each of these CAD/CAM programs and of course, eCabs, will be virtually error free when posted.

My 90/10 ratio above refers to the fact that I still have some errors... these are user errors, usually depth, that I didnt set properly. But I am getting better.

If you require virtually seamless integration between your CAD and CAM products I would reccommend AutoCads latest version and MicroVellum. I doubt that they will set you back more than 2 or 3 ShopBots.

[chunkstyle]

Hi Kerry,

I remember printing out the manual for e-cabs and sitting down with it, going thru the entire manual from beginning to end, and taking months to do so. I hope I havn't offended anyone by making a critical comment on a program that I have come to rely on and enjoy using very much, I also sing it's praises to anyone I meet and would consider benefitting from the use of it.

It don't think that E-cabs does everything well. What tool does?
Yes, E-cabs is buggy. This is why it is always being revised. This is not a slam. I'm glad that TW is dedicated to improving it. I also try to find ways of improving my product.

I will say that the link has some issues with the imported DXF geometry brought into part editor due to the fact that all my jobs, including the one picked up two weeks ago, are all part editor cut heavy and milled flawlessly on a Thermwood CNC. I have had jobs cut out a Thermwood for 5 years (as a result of using e-cabs). It has only been while trying to run files off on the Shopbot that these issues have come up and persisted.

The cad package that comes with E-cabs is nice to have and I used it. It was my first exposure to CAD. After a couple of years, and with the advice from the Thermwood shop owner, I learned Turbo CAD in a weekend and have never looked back. It's an opinion come from by honest attempt at using E-cabs and using others programs and making a decision that works best for me. It was not a decision made out of a lack of understanding nor is my statement of the link being buggy made without comparison to similar files being cut out on two different machines using the same Design software (E-Cabs). One machine cuts the files without problems and the other (via Link) has issues. Are you running just the E-cabs program on your machine to the exclusion of any other design or drafting programs? If so that's impressive. If you are using a Thermwood I would wonder why we are having different results and experiences regarding the use of imported DXF geometry for part editor cuts. My experience has been 100% success on the Thermwood.

Gary,
Your results of using .25" tenon lengths and mine has me completely up a stump. ANY cabinet part that has had a .25" tenon on it wether it has been a drawer box bottom or a .75" thick cabinet partition has had the shoulder cuts (the pocket cut) dropped off the part. I still have my router set up to run the cut manually when I forget to change this length in the construction settings. Daniell, at TW, found the issue involved the .25" tenon length when he ran the twd file I supplied thru his link file on his end. There were no part editor cuts involved with this. I will ask TW about it in the morning, if I can spare the time, and try to find out why this is occurring on my files but not on yours. Very odd. Would you be able to send a file that had .25" tenons successfully run off? It would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

[ken_rychlik]

Tim, If you want to email me a cabinet that is giving you issues, I will nest it and see what my machine does with it.

If we repeat the issue on several machines, it may help them take note of it.

i got into the habbit of doing a nest in ecabs before outputting the twd. I catch a lot of issues this way. It will help understand if the issue is in ecabs or just the shopbot link.

Then when the parts are nested in the link, I look them over again for issues.