Charging for design time?

[r_jones]

I am curious how everyone accounts for design time with their clients? Looking back on my year it seems I am missing the mark, when I do charge it seems I don't charge enough, when I think it's a slam dunk and I don't I get killed! I mostly cut one off designs, sometimes they are projects that I manufacture on a consistant basis and sometimes it's a one time thing... Pending on the client and project I might have 10 minutes drafting and programming or 10 hours.... Mostly it's drafting and coordinating with the client... My thought was a minumum $50 fee then charge an hourly shop rate until the drawings are approved? However that could get expensive quickly...

Any thoughts are appreciated

Thanks,
Ron

[marysvillesign]

From experience, you can ballpark most projects and leave a cushion for the unexpected. Those you've made mistakes on should be excellent lessons. Most clients don't want to pay for play based on a stopwatch, so be prepared before the subject comes up.
For example: for $xxx - Standard design & 1 simple edit (have samples available) included in pricing, all other changes at $xxx hourly rate with 1 hour minimum. Simple for bookkeeping and easy for the client to realize there are costs involved with asking for changes.

[michael_schwartz]

I consider initial design work to be a marketing/sales expense at least to some degree. I like to give my clients a few sketches and work with them on the overall concept before I start talking money.

[joe]

I understand and appreciate Michaels method but you have to be careful. It's not that I don't find my self in this predicament. The client wants to know what they are putting their money down for. I don't blame them! I'd want to know too. This a dangerous path.

If you have a portfolio or photo's it's sometimes helpful to get an idea of where they want to go. After all they don't have an idea about materials or techniques. I try not to up-play the use of equipment. It's the final product they are looking for. When a customer points to sample, or photo showing what they are interested in, I'm able to quickly price the job.

If you are starting our with nothing to show and limited experience the best opportunity is to stay close to those who know the tools of the trade and do lots of samples. When I started out I made a "Concept Portfolio" by clipping out signs from magazine, putting them in a big glassine binder. I used it to get an idea of what the client wanted. It was a great way to start out.



Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.co

[dlcw]

I approach it from this direction: I will provide a concept Sketchup or eCabs picture with no dimensions as part of the estimate. If they sign the estimate and make a deposit, I will show them line drawings and dimensional drawings but not give them this information to take home. If they decide to make a bunch of changes after the initial design they know up front that their is a $/hr charge to make those changes. They are after all a change order.

If the customer does not want to use me to build the project, and they want the drawings, I charge them the time I have invested to do the design and drawings. If they use me, the time is part of the sales cycle and is incorporated in to my shop rate.

If I provide drawings to a customer that they pay for, I make sure that it says all over the drawings that they are copyright me and duplication is not authorized without - blah, blah, blah. You know the verbage.

This approach seems to be acceptable to most of my customers so far. The ones that put up a big fight, I don't know if I want to do business with them anyway.

[knight_toolworks]

for the most part I am the oddball here. most of the things I cut are customer supplied. so I just have to import the file and toolpath it. I may have to play around a bit too.
a lot of my jobs may be 10 minutes from the time I get the email import the file cut it put it on the cart and send them a invoice. sometimes only 5 minutes. the longest time is changing a bit. Those I change a min of 30 to 40.00 They always supply the material so it is just time. But I charge 60 a hour for drawing time if needed.