Trying to decide between CNC routers

[Xray]

Hello folks, have resolved to get an entry level CNC machine, and have narrowed my choices to Shopbot desktop & Shark+ Pro.
I realize that most product specific forums are not very fond about touting the competition, so forgive me if this is out of line ,,, But on the other hand, a well crafted product stands on its own, and comparisons of similar items can be expected.
Saw the article in American Woodworkers btw, fairly poorly done article which didn't help me a bit.

The Shark can be had for just under $4,000, delivered.
$3,800 base price, $120 router, $65 shipping.
The Desktop is $1,500 more. $5,000 base price, $290 router, and $200 shipping.
Quite a difference for similar machines, and I was wondering what advantages could I expect for the price ?

$290 seems a bit extreme for a router, anyone know the model number used here, perhaps I could shave off a bit of $$ buying locally.
Its advertised as a 2 1/4hp PC router ,,, Theres a Porter-Cable 892 2-1/4-Horsepower Router on Amazon for $160 shipped, if the same that would save me $130 right there.
$200 shipping vs $65 is also a factor, though no doubt the desktop is a bit heavier. Seems to me though, I see "markup" written all over these 2.

The Shark actually has a larger cutting area, and perhaps a better software package.
I am attracted though to the superior rigidness of the desktop.
Was considering a spindle, but the extra $1,500 I think will kill that option.
Like the router, would it be an option for me to get my own spindle, and perhaps save a bundle here ?
Don't want to be a miser, and I realize nothing about CNC is going to be cheap, but I need the most bang for the $$. Don't mind paying extra for superior performance, at the same time don't want to feel like I'm being gouged for such things as shipping or markups on tools either.

Any other pros/cons of either unit would be appreciated.
Use would primarily be hobby, and light production.

[bleeth]

If you happen to be in the South Florida area you can see a desktop at the camp on Friday or Saturday this week. All in all the desktop is a much more robust piece of equipment and will take heavier use. The PC router price includes the z setup for it and is heavier than the Bosch the Shark will take. Here are comments from someone on another forum regarding comparisons:

Re: shark versus shopbot

by tswoodshop » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:08 pm
I’ve looked into the differences between the Shopbot tabletop model they just came out with, and the Shark Pro. I think spinningwood’s post above is pretty much right on the money. Whether that extra $1200 you pay for the Shopbot over the Shark Pro is worth it or not depends on what you want to do with the machine. Like a lot of “toys” in my shop, that is usually the deciding factor. Example, I upgraded to a large standard 15 inch planer because the amount of wood I run through it would have burned up the Delta 12 inch benchtop I was using to that point. Likewise, after reading up on things, I came to the conclusion that the Shopbot desktop was designed to be used in more of an industrial/ working shop setting than a hobby type shop where somebody will use it on weekends once in a while. The Shopbot components were designed to be used in a more aggressive work environment. The Shopbot is also faster, although that might not matter to the hobbyist. The Shopbot takes a bigger Porter Cable router, which again makes faster smoother cutting, and which again might not matter to the hobbyist that has all day. They both have the same Vcarve software, but from listening to owners of both, apparently the Shopbot system software integrates with the Vcarve software much better than the Shark software does, the Shopbot software is more seamless. The one place Shopbot truly shines, and is the envy of just about anybody else in the CNC world, is support. Among other things, they have an active forum where you can find info to questions so you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Of course this forum, although only a fraction the size of Shopbot’s, is also is a great place to get info if you run into a problem. The bottom line is will you want to be making widgits on your CNC to sell at shows? Making custom signs every week on a regular basis as part of a small business? Is speed and a little more power something that would bring you down if your CNC didn’t have it? Get the Shopbot desktop and don’t look back. Do you have a day job and mainly putz around in your shop on weekends making one of a kind projects? Would the slower speed of the Shark not bother you since you have all day to “play” in your shop and time was not necessarily money as it would be in a working shop? Save yourself $1200 and get the Shark.


I can only add that it has been my experience that when buying tools if I buy the lightest entry level there is then I usually end up regretting it!

[Xray]

Thanks for the info, am in MI, quite a long, cold ways from FLA.

I agree that the Shark being apparently tied to a fairly weak palm router is a detraction ... And also that when making a purchase, one should get something they can grow into, rather than grow right out of.
I was considering the Buddy system for $2,000 more, but I have to assign myself some limits, of there will be no end.
I don't have a very large area to devote to the system, and with 5 kids nickel & diming me half to death, every $$ counts.

[kartracer63]

Hi Doug,

I went through the same thing you're going through a little over a year ago. Let me start by saying I ended up buying the Shopbot BT48 Buddy.
I, also, started out looking at the Shark Pro. I saw it on Rockler's website and then went to see it personally at one of their stores. It's a nice little machine for a small hobbiest. I thought about it for several weeks and finally asked the store manager for a demonstration before I spend that kind of money. Not a single person in the store could operate the machine.
Now, it's not like I can go down to the store and see a Shopbot demo either though. But, it really made me wonder what kind of support I might be able to expect when I ran into problems (and you WILL run into problems).

So, I expanded my horizons and started looking at other CNCs available. I came across the Shopbot site and read up on their machines for almost an entire day before I even made my way to the forum. I'm not a machinest and I was adequately confused by all of the information I had just inhaled. Somehow, it all started to make some sence once I started spending a little bit of time lurking on the Shopbot forum. A lot of the questions I had were easily answered right here. I had to do some searching for some of the answers. But, they were here for me.

I was even lucky enough to have a Shopbot Camp scheduled about a hour from my house during my quest. Bill (Doc) Palumbo encouraged me to attend the camp. I got to see the Shopbot actually run some parts and I learned more than I was ready to learn about all kinds of topics related to the Shopbot and the software.

I left the camp almost certain that I'd end up with a Shopbot. But, I continued to do my due diligence and shopped around for several more weeks after that yet. I had called Shopbot and asked so many stupid questions. I'm sure they don't remember, but I sure do. The staff at Shopbot was great. But, the guys here on this forum were without a doubt the determining factor when I finally made up my mind and ordered the Shopbot. There are so many talented folks here, and they're almost all willing to share their knowledge to help you out whenever the time may come (and it WILL come). I know that the Shark guys have a forum. It's no comparison to this forum and these guys.

The software comparison doesn't exist. V-Carve Pro and Partworks are the same thing. Partworks was made for Shopbot to speak the Shopbot language. Same-O Same-O.

Spend a few extra bucks and get the machine and the support group you're going to need. You won't be sorry.

[gc3]

http://www.stingercnc.com/

Have you seen these?

[hh_woodworking]

Just my 2 cents worth, but if you could at all swing the buddy that would be the way to go. The bigger size will come in very handy at time and you will not believe what you could make to recover the cost of the machine. Some shopbotter have recovered their investment in as little as 6 months on a full size standard unit.

[Xray]

I have indeed seen the Stingers, look like fine units ,,, But I put them out of contention for no other reason than not to further complicate the decision making process.
Also, don't really want to have to set up a dedicated computer for control, which would, obviously, further add to the cost.

I guess I should still consider the Buddy, I do have the funds for it.
Shipping cost doesn't appear on the site, I'm almost afraid to ask what that would be for a 600 lb unit.

[ken_rychlik]

Doug.

Look at resale value. See what you can find on the used market for sale and how well it holds it's value.

I would also suggest you consider buying a used machine as a first machine. It is very likely that either you won't like it and sell off the little machine, or you will really like it an upgrade to a larger machine. In either situation and buying either machine, you will get most of your money back when you are ready to upgrade or bail out.

Look on the Vectric.com site also. There is a very good v-carve pro forum. There are fans of both machines there and they can both tell you the good and bad. That IMO would be the best place to get unbiased opinions.

The other thing is that the desktop shopbot is so new, there won't be that many used ones and also not many long term user reviews.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[hh_woodworking]

You said you would like not to have a dedicated computer for the machine. I would suggest that you reconsider that option. It does not have to be the newest or best computer it will run fine on an older model cpu. Keep your good design computer away from the shop and all the dust!

[Xray]

You said you would like not to have a dedicated computer for the machine. I would suggest that you reconsider that option. It does not have to be the newest or best computer it will run fine on an older model cpu. Keep your good design computer away from the shop and all the dust!

True.
I had planned on doing design on the computer in my room [CNC will be outside in my garage] ,,, And running the code from an older laptop.
So I'm trying to work with what I already have, though true, maybe I will have to get a dedicated machine at some point in time.