what pays thge bills... (well, mine anyhow)

[CNYDWW]

Outstanding work. Most of the cabinet jobs i get asked to quote on have one main goal. Beat Lowe's Prices. I tell them I can't, first of all because i'm not going to show you 1/2" case cabinets and deliver 3/8" to your door. I used to work for the company.

Regards
Randy

[Ajcoholic]

Outstanding work. Most of the cabinet jobs i get asked to quote on have one main goal. Beat Lowe's Prices. I tell them I can't, first of all because i'm not going to show you 1/2" case cabinets and deliver 3/8" to your door. I used to work for the company.

Regards
Randy

I realized years ago, that in a small custom shop, trying to compete with mass produced "garbage" is impossible. And, not where I was trying to take my business.

A lady came to me a while ago, and had a photo printed off from the Home Depot of a linen cabinet. It was about $300 if I remember. She wanted it made "better", yet incorporate all the detail, applied carvings, etc (which would all have been made from real wood) etc. Basically a custom shop piece at a bargain price. My cost was $1800. She decided not to get it from me.

That being said, I am generally working 4 to 8 months behind (depending upon the size of the job) and turn away a lot of work. Hardly anyone here is doing custom wood working. There are a LOT of places doing melamine cabinets, and buying in prefinished doors or vinyl wrap stuff. (note: I have nothing against that business model, it is just not what I prefer to do. I also know the guys doing more mass produced non-wood stuff are making a lot more $$ and can much more easily hire people to run machinery, but again thats not my thing)
But, doing what I consider real woodwork, is sadly a very rare thing up in my part of the country. That is also why finding even a half experienced woodworker is impossible.

There are some other shops like mine, small custom woodworking outfits that do pretty much any type of woodwork - within a 3 or 4 hour radius. I know for a fact the guys doing good quality work, are also very busy and very behind. I guess it's a good problem to have...

Northern Ontario is actually doing pretty well. The main industry - mining - is obviously on a good level right now. The lumber industry sucks, but people are still spending $$. Even in the poor times though, we managed to stay busy. That is what being "adaptive" and not focusing on one specific product can help with.

As you can see, I also love talking shop..

AJC

[bruce_taylor]

really nice looking stuff!! I do things people typically can't buy from the retail environment. I can compete with custom countertops the big box stores do on price and more importantly time. I enjoy making dreams come to life, I have done a little furniture but not alot. I have done a few built-ins and really appreciate the one that you have shown here. I am going to do a custom mantel for myself when I get a chance and have a harder time designing for myself than for the people I work for.

[CNYDWW]

I realized years ago, that in a small custom shop, trying to compete with mass produced "garbage" is impossible. And, not where I was trying to take my business.

A lady came to me a while ago, and had a photo printed off from the Home Depot of a linen cabinet. It was about $300 if I remember. She wanted it made "better", yet incorporate all the detail, applied carvings, etc (which would all have been made from real wood) etc. Basically a custom shop piece at a bargain price. My cost was $1800. She decided not to get it from me.

That being said, I am generally working 4 to 8 months behind (depending upon the size of the job) and turn away a lot of work. Hardly anyone here is doing custom wood working. There are a LOT of places doing melamine cabinets, and buying in prefinished doors or vinyl wrap stuff. (note: I have nothing against that business model, it is just not what I prefer to do. I also know the guys doing more mass produced non-wood stuff are making a lot more $$ and can much more easily hire people to run machinery, but again thats not my thing)
But, doing what I consider real woodwork, is sadly a very rare thing up in my part of the country. That is also why finding even a half experienced woodworker is impossible.

There are some other shops like mine, small custom woodworking outfits that do pretty much any type of woodwork - within a 3 or 4 hour radius. I know for a fact the guys doing good quality work, are also very busy and very behind. I guess it's a good problem to have...

Northern Ontario is actually doing pretty well. The main industry - mining - is obviously on a good level right now. The lumber industry sucks, but people are still spending $$. Even in the poor times though, we managed to stay busy. That is what being "adaptive" and not focusing on one specific product can help with.

As you can see, I also love talking shop..

AJC

It's not that i'm trying to compete with the mass produced products out there. Everyone expects the hand made to be cheaper when the materials cost more then the mass produced product. I've been working with a local discount supplier to produce some products out of exterior grade materials. They're the ones i usually get the short run molding jobs from. The local mill work company charges $100 just to make knives to match a profile. I usually charge $10 a LF and make it on the machine. I do have to say it's been about a year till i actually had the capability again.


Regards
Randy

[michael_schwartz]

Nice work by the way.

The irony of it all is that that half the time Home depot, and Lowe's can't even order the correct boxes. Don't even get me started about lack of fillers, and scribes, etc... Then they leave people in the dark for a month with no kitchen, when the cabinets fail to arrive when scheduled or the installer is nowhere to be found. By the time they re-order the correct parts, boxes and necessary fillers another month has passed. People get what they pay for, and I think that will work against the "box stores", and "kitchen showrooms" in the long run.

Making boxes is the least exciting part of any job. I enjoy making doors, drawers, and other solid wood components. I even enjoy sanding, because thats a chance to really take things to another level. Finishing is fun part.

While everybody else devalues their own product and lowers their standards to compete with everybody else who is doing the same thing, I think the right thing to do is just to try to do the best work that you can.

[michael_schwartz]

It's not that i'm trying to compete with the mass produced products out there. Everyone expects the hand made to be cheaper
Regards
Randy

I encounter this quite often. I don't know where this thinking originates from.
I am glad I am not the only one who runs into this. People probably got this idea from watching too much HGTV, or from the many craft artists who practically give their work away for pennies on the dollar taking in consideration the time, and skill that goes into what they make.

[Ajcoholic]

Nice work by the way.

The irony of it all is that that half the time Home depot, and Lowe's can't even order the correct boxes. Don't even get me started about lack of fillers, and scribes, etc... Then they leave people in the dark for a month with no kitchen, when the cabinets fail to arrive when scheduled or the installer is nowhere to be found. By the time they re-order the correct parts, boxes and necessary fillers another month has passed. People get what they pay for, and I think that will work against the "box stores", and "kitchen showrooms" in the long run.

Making boxes is the least exciting part of any job. I enjoy making doors, drawers, and other solid wood components. I even enjoy sanding, because thats a chance to really take things to another level. Finishing is fun part.

While everybody else devalues their own product and lowers their standards to compete with everybody else who is doing the same thing, I think the right thing to do is just to try to do the best work that you can.

I genuinely enjoy every part of my job. I dont mind cutting, and assembling cases (boxes) when I am doing case goods. It is but one part of the job. Same with making doors, drawers, trim, finishing, assembly, etc.

WOuld I want to be cutting up sheet stock 10 hrs a day, day after day? Nope. But, the sme can be said about any part of wood working.

The beautiful part of custom work, for me, is that each and every day is completely different than the next. There is never a time to get bored. Also, your mind is constantly working. When I am doing the stuff that takes less concentration - I am generally planning another job in my head or thinking about how I will tackle some other project, etc.

One thing about sanding... I have heard many a woodworker say they dislike sanding. That is one thing I dont, and probably never will, understand. I really enjoy it, as it is the last step of the process before finishing. It is when things start to look "good" and the anticipation of getting the goods into the finishing room takes over...

If there is one portion of my job I dont like, it is probably pricing out work and doing quotes. It is the only part of the job that forces me to sit behind a desk.. and it is the only part when I am not making anything!

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

I encounter this quite often. I don't know where this thinking originates from.
I am glad I am not the only one who runs into this. People probably got this idea from watching too much HGTV, or from the many craft artists who practically give their work away for pennies on the dollar taking in consideration the time, and skill that goes into what they make.

Up here where I live it is the opposite. The majority of people think that custom made is WAY more $$ than store bought.

But, when you look at the "higher end" kitchens, and furniture sold - a small custom shop like mine can generally provide a similar or better product for a similar price, or better.

AJC

[michael_schwartz]

But, when you look at the "higher end" kitchens, and furniture sold - a small custom shop like mine can generally provide a similar or better product for a similar price, or better.

AJC

I have noticed this as well. The kitchen I will be working on this spring, was like this. I am planning on working on a catalog to print, and distribute locally at select venues that will feature a small selection of furniture, and pricing but I have to build, and photograph a couple more pieces, first.

[kevin]

Also when big box stores install they charge by the hour . Usally comes out to 3000.00 a kitchen they nickel and dimne