Ready to give up on HSD

[Eppert]

Spindles are the cat's meow for cutting on a shopbot but, my luck with bearings with HSD is quickly driving me nuts. My first spindle lasted approx. 1 year 4 months. My second spindle lasted 7 months and my third (out of the box) is doing the same thing. Maybe it is something else I am doing. Here are my symptoms / problems.

Start-up:
A serious grinding noise coming from the lower bearings
once ran through the warm-up cycle:
too hot to hold your hand on outside of spindle
during cutting:
sporadically during cutting a vibration noise / grinding noise that rivals that of running a router (actually louder than running a router) and more vibration on the part than I can sand out without changing the shape.

During the install of the newest spindle I made sure all bolts were not bottoming out (plate to spindle and plate to machine) I am within .004" in a 24" span of being lvl to the machine / table)

All 3 spindles have done the same thing once I begin to hear that awful start up grinding noise.

90% of my cuts are as follows
5/16" 2 flute up-cut
RPM: 18,000
Plunge: .5 IPS
Cut rate: 2.4 IPS

Material: 3/4 Advantec (like a combo between OSB and Particle Board but, water resistant) or 3/4" Plywood.

Things I have already tried:
new collet, new nut, new cutter (I already replace cutter around once per week.
Different diam. cutter / nut / collet
Faster feed speed = worse vibration / noise
going slow enough to burn up my cutter = less noise / ruined cutter and material

Any help advise would be greatly appreciated

Thank you,
Troy

[adrianm]

My HSD 2.2 is coming on three years old now with lots of use on MDF, plywood and hardwoods. Still running as sweet as the day I got it.

Are you ramping into cuts? One thing I've always done with mine is to make sure that I specify a ramp of some sort on every cut.

Not sure if it's strictly necessary with these spindles or not but I've read about people having problems with the bearings chipping on some spindles with straight plunges into the material.

18k rpm seems a bit high for that feed rate (although I'm not familiar with Advantec). Usually I'm running between 13k and 15k only going up to 18k with single flute cutters.

[CNYDWW]

Are you doing a lot of drilling with the spindle? Not the expert but i've read several times that the spindles are not meant for a lot of drilling operation.

Regards
Randy

[Brady Watson]

If you keep wiping out bearings, I'd be tempted to point at high thrust loads like drilling or plunging straight down using a non-center cutting bit. Also, it sounds like the original one has a bent mainshaft - might be worth looking into. 18k RPM sounds a bit excessive for the move speed you indicate and you could be cooking the bearings and overheating them...which sounds partially what you have going on at the moment.

You should not be seeing slop in the cut quality because of spindle run out...ever. If this is the case, and you are certain that the rest of the tool is tuned, lubed and adjusted tightly, then the spindle is trashed.

-B

[MogulTx]

Spindle is properly wired, right? You have checked it, and don't have one of the three phase legs wired to the Common or something...?

I don't see mention of warming the spindle up (at least not that I recall from reading the above...) do you do the warm up routine every time? It is 10 minutes out of your life, but it is time that is probably going to be spend prepping materials anyway...

I run 2.5 to 2.7 with a 1/4" bit into a semi-hard material, but I limit the bit to 1/4 depth and then even ramp it so that I only get 1/4" per revolution- with the machine not being side loaded very hard at all. It might take my cut another minute or two, but I am not taxing the spindle.

I am using a 4hp HSD, that came from a cabinet shop. Spindle is about 4 years old, and I have no idea how many hours are on it. It sounds like you may be over-loading it, at a high speed- where it is likely to be most fragile

I have also only used 18K RPM one time, to check out various speeds with a soft material. I do run in the 15-17K category if I am cutting foam- but thats the only time. And the foam gives no resistance...

Those are my observations- Brady and some others seemed to have some good comments. Let us know how you make out on this.

[Eppert]

MGM;
From the original post,

Start-up:
A serious grinding noise coming from the lower bearings
once ran through the warm-up cycle:
too hot to hold your hand on outside of spindle

I actually warm up the spindle much longer than necessary or suggested. Like you said in the earlier statement about spending time prepping. I hit start then work on prep. Normally about 15 minutes or so. (first 9/k, then 13/k then 18/k)

On the wiring, I will double check but, I did have a union electrician wire it for me (Nice having a neighbor that's a licensed union electrician)

I will be more than happy to try a slower RPM but, it seems as though that will cause more pressure on the spindle than what I am already applying?? I'll give 16/k tonight and see how it goes.

Yes I do A LOT more plunging than I would like to but, I only have a PRS standard so, I can't add a pneumatic drill to it until I get an upgrade. Another issue with the plunging is that I only have PartsWizard so I don't have a ramp down (spiral down to 0, whatever that is called??) feature within the software. Maybe I should bite-the-bullet and buy Part Works? Can that help my issue?

I received an email from someone else as well requesting that I add even more ground wires than I already have to insure that somehow I'm not getting a ground issue near the bearings themselves. (easy to add if it helps)

Does anyone have a number for HSD? All I can find is an International number to Italy. Do they have an office within the States? I would like to see if they will at least repair the spindle that only lasted 7 months.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions,
Troy

[michael_schwartz]

MGM;
From the original post,

Yes I do A LOT more plunging than I would like to but, I only have a PRS standard so, I can't add a pneumatic drill to it until I get an upgrade. Another issue with the plunging is that I only have PartsWizard so I don't have a ramp down (spiral down to 0, whatever that is called??) feature within the software. Maybe I should bite-the-bullet and buy Part Works? Can that help my issue?

Ramping into the cut, would most certainly be an improvement. I think it would be worth upgrading to part works for this reason.
I run a porter cable router, but I have found it to be essential to ramp plunge moves, whenever possible.

[jerry_stanek]

I agree that 18k is a little fast I run mine at 10 to 14k

[dlcw]

My HSD 2.2 is coming on three years old now with lots of use on MDF, plywood and hardwoods. Still running as sweet as the day I got it.

Are you ramping into cuts? One thing I've always done with mine is to make sure that I specify a ramp of some sort on every cut.

When using compression mortise bits to cut expensive veneer plywood, melamine or P-LAM material, you have to plunge at least past the upcut part of the bit. I've found if I ramp these bits in I get really horrible chipping on the veneer/melamine/P-LAM until the upcut part of the bit goes below the edge on the downcut part of the bit kicks in.

My 2.2HP spindle was installed in mid 2009 and is still going strong.

[jhedlund58]

i agree.. guessin u runnin too fast... i don't do ramps.. yet.. but i run at 14000 rpm to 16000 rpm max and have not had a problem... i old and retired... doesn't matter to me if part run a little longer... VERY HAPPY with my SHOPBOT.. probably shoulda got a bigger one.. but my shop is probably smaller than most... like i said very happy!!!