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Thread: Puzzled About Why USB Hubs Help

  1. #11
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    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradywatson View Post
    I think the majority of people that have communication problems, don't have computer hardware that is suited for running a robotic tool. Computers are cheap for the most part, and a quality computer (not one you bought at a chain store on sale) is not much more coin than a cheap one. Brand names mean next to nothing...so don't be fooled thinking you've got all the bases covered because you think Dell or XYZ computer brand is the end all be all. It isn't.

    You (everyone) need to understand that a ShopBot is a robotic tool. Not a printer...not a webcam, but a sophisticated machine that requires certain things in order to function properly. As the saying goes, there is no free lunch...so along those lines, a $150,000 CNC most likely has it's own internal/proprietary computer that just runs machine code and NOTHING ELSE - which means, you'd need a separate computer to tweak something in 'PartWorks' et al. The computer attached to the ShopBot's ENTIRE FUNCTION is to control the ShopBot. Not surf the web, not check email, and NOT do CAD/CAM, although most of the time this is not a problem if you are running software that doesn't require a dongle.

    In case some of you need it spelled out - You got into the CNC game 'on the cheap' by investing in a ShopBot. It does everything a larger tool will, provided you give it what it needs. You saved a ton of cash on shipping (no riggers required), on the electronics (you use your own computer), and you bit the bullet thinking, "You know what...I can make this work!" But many cheesed out...used inferior computers, bootleg operating systems and made hasty decisions that have only bitten you in the butt down the road...and the fact of the matter is that the ShopBot system is not to blame...You are. It is VERY rare for the SB control system and software to be at fault in regards to communication. There is usually something else that is causing the problem, like a USB cable over 12' long, shoddy machine grounding or inferior computer hardware - ALL of which are YOUR responsibility...Not ShopBot's.

    I see all these posts about communication woes & I get the feeling that many believe that this is somehow a 'ShopBot' problem. It isn't. 99% of the time, it is because the correct computer hardware was not implemented or other problem on the user's end. I've seen my fair share of 'bright ideas' in my travels.

    If you want to get your communication beefed up for CNC duty, here's what I'd do:

    Windows XP Professional or Win7 Professional OS (yes...you pay for a real license)
    PCI to USB Expansion card
    USB self-powered 2.0 hub (throw the IOGear one in the trash)
    12' or less USB cable plugged between control box and hub
    Plug hub into PCI/USB port
    Keep ALL nonsense programs off the computer. PartWorks & SB3 ONLY - No Inkscape, games or other Freeware junk or warez.
    If USB cable is not long enough to get to computer, relocate computer closer to control box & extend monitor, keyboard & mouse.

    -B
    To go along with Brady's suggestion about extending the mouse, keyboard and monitor and moving the computer closer. I use one of these on my system.

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...Value=TRENDnet

    I added a 25' monitor cable to the adapter and works the control computer flawlessly. Please keep in mind that i do not use a SB control on my PRT. The adapter hooks to the computer with one usb and the vga port. It is then plugged into the switch which has two usb's for mouse and keyboard along with the vga. It's meant to be used as a switch to control two different computers from one terminal but i just use it as stated. It seams to handle the vga extension cable without issue or lag as in, i push the stop or jog keys on the keyboard and the machine reacts without pause.

    Just wanted to toss this is for those that could use this length of extension for the computer controls and monitor.

    Regards
    Randy
    I don't always indulge in evil scientific research...but when i do. I make the parts on a ShopBot.

  2. #12
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    Dec 2011
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    Piedmont, SD
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    Brady,
    Sorry to hack you off - I've learned an awful lot from you, thanks to your generosity and contributions here.

    "I think the majority of people that have communication problems, don't have computer hardware that is suited for running a robotic tool."

    I intended to respond to Gary's note this morning:

    "I have put together a couple dozen control computers for other users. They include a very stripped down version of XPsp3, SB3, Partworks and the SB Editor ONLY. They have 6 USB ports (2@ USB3.0, 2@USB2.0 and 2 front), no optical drive, network card disabled in BIOS, have never been updated, seen the internet, or have ever been connected to anything other than a ShopBot. They were designed as multimedia PC's to handle video. As such, they were made to handle data, rather than email. They work flawlessly for SB Control. "

    Based on his coments, the history of my issues since day one, the fact that thousands of these machines run on this operating system ALL day, EVERY day.... I concluded that very notion before Brady posted it, and was out buying a new computer!

    Before purchasing machine early this year, I fully researched these topics and understood the need for a dedicated computer, the specs required, as well as the need to disable everything, never see the internet, etc. I purchased a $600 laptop that met specs posted, and cleaned it out and use only as advised. No pirated software, no Wal-Nut specials.

    Can't tell you how many times I see pictures of modified machines, wires and sawdust piles all over the place, and wonder how they can keep going when my machine with a comparably pristine installation is experiencing such persistent issues.

    I dearly hope the time and money spent on a desktop that exceeds all posted requirements 3X's over will finally have me advancing past the constant troubleshooting. Believe me, averaging 2-3 hours of diagnostics for every hour of production does not help my business in the least.

    However, I'd ask for your patience and understanding as we newbies deal with the realities of graduating to this level of sophistication in machinery. We are not naive to the gravity of what this machine is and what we're asking of it in terms of performance. Just simply asking for help in gathering information to advance our understanding, go beyond the difficulties encountered, and excel to a point that we can become contributors to this great community as well.

    Simply put -
    I know it's an awesome machine - I'm just trying to get mine running as well as yours!

    I'll let you know if the computer makes the difference.

    jeff

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
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    Brady or Gary I have a question I don't mean to hijack the tread

    Somtimes when I run large files i get "stop eror do you want to disable yes or no " of cource I click yes .Should I disable the stops or are they set to senitive

    As a ex computer nut I ran my shopbot with a laptop usb speed of 72 .I had all kinds of problem shurdering like a bang .I run now with 8gig ram etc full blown computer no problems execept obove
    Brady sometimes where stupid cheap

    Best price for a real computer is Tiger.com

  4. #14
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    Nov 2009
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    Since this is something so critical I would like to see ShopBot build and sell control PC'S that are preconfigured, and guaranteed. Yes they would cost more than an off the shelf consumer oriented PC. However by speccing quality components and an industrial quality case, I think this would be a product people would buy.

    Again, with the latest recommendation of conductive grounding hose that Gary suggested in another thread (see post #4 and #6) http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15394
    it would be nice if ShopBot would recommend a specific brand, and product and a provide schedule for proper installation. There are so many different recommendations on the forum, it would be nice to have something up to date, that is official. It would be nice to simply have an industrial dust collection contractor come in, but there is no guarantee they would get it right. Even better selling, the recommended, hose could be another money maker.

    I would also like to see a service bulletin on ground loops, and the latest recommendations for grounding if they differ from the original manual.
    Especially in regards to ground loops, it would be nice to have something to provide a licensed electrical contractor so that they may have a better understanding on how to assess possible issues. The commercial electricians I have consulted on this have not had much to say on this issue.

    I would also suggest that ShopBot consider offering some more detailed photos and video with explanations on proper wiring, and routing of cables, and some examples of what not to do. When you buy a machine site unseen, and you have never seen another SB installation you are looking at the manual from a totally different perspective, than an experienced user or the engineers, and designers behind the product.
    Michael Schwartz - Waitsfield VT
    Shopbot prs standard 48x96. Aspire. SB Link.

  5. #15
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyc View Post
    As our machines have gotten faster and require higher data rates, the computers we use to control them have gotten more prone to shift resources to backround operations than ever before. ShopBot is not alone in noticing this. Google this document to see what the CNC mfgr Tormach and Controller software mfgr Mach have to say about this: TD31275_Mach3_Controllers.pdf
    Interesting document. Probably explains why I've never had any problems as I only use older spec PC's. Never saw the point in having lots of horsepower and loads of RAM to run one 32 bit application.

  6. #16
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    Finished setting up new desktop pc to replace laptop.

    Warmed up spindle: NO CRASH

    Ran part file: EXECUTED PERFECTLY

    Will likely post new thread on what I bought + specs etc.
    But for now, since it's running smoothly, I'd better keep working!

    jeff

  7. #17
    garyc Guest

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    Kevin...
    Reset your table based coordinates to accurate numbers and/or turn file limit checking off.

    Jeff...
    Good call, glad to see you are working. You are correct, near 6000 working machines. Many every day. Dont forget to check the Windows services for background operations.

    Michael...
    I dont see SB being in the computer business in the near future. Things change extremely fast in that arena and many components are made on a 1 run basis. There is no way that a small company could keep up with it all unless that (computers) was their primary business.

    Adrian...
    I was wondering if anyone would actually read that!

  8. #18
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    Jul 2009
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    Gary thanks for the anwser on a Sat
    Who do you turn off turn file limit checking off ?

  9. #19
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    FWIW... I've said it before and feel it's worth repeating. CNC machines with dedicated processers aren't without problems! Plus you are limited to one source for help. I've seen some pretty nice CNC metalworking machinery scrapped because the OEM decided that they were obsolete and no longer carried parts or support for them. When I was considering which product to buy, I was pleased to find that the ShopBot was not powered by a proprietary processer.

    SG

  10. #20
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    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...626&CatId=5205

    Micheal I guess they don't get involed enough headheachs .The computer above would run a Shopbot no problem .Also they have tech support to ask questions

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