The Craft

[gc3]

This is a great thread...thank you Joe for telling it like it is! Ruffled a few feathers

[Brian Harnett]

Brian,

You're dead wrong about this forum. To it's credit we've probably started off more pro sign businesses than any other forum on the market. But the fact remains, it is and will always have hobbiest as the main body. That does not preclude having existing sign businesses to come aboard. Come On! They need help too.

Now about Sign Forums. There are few of these having much CNC interest. I believe I know them all and have participated on them. The 3d Forum has lost almost all the heavy weight artists and it's down to the hobby crowd. Much like Shopbot.

I don't mind hobby guys but time is precious and I'm not able or willing to answer the same old questions again, again, again, and again.

Lets see how many pro's are willing to jump aboard for that.

Joe Crumley

I guess I will beat a dead horse, don't post on questions you have answered a million times before.

Its that simple, because they will be asked over and over just like any forum on any other subject.

[gc3]

thing is a couple years ago there were, as Joe says, some serious "heavyweights" involved on several forums. Then the ebay, rockler and diy machine owners took over those forums...with questions that could have easily been answered by simple...simple research. I myself did post the same newbie questions a few times on the same forums. but i quickly learned to figure it out for myself...i live in los cabos mexico and have the only shop with cnc routers...wanna talk about questions on how to run the machine...ha google is your best friend.

Again I want to thank Joe for telling it like it is...

cut my teeth in with these doubled sided entry door panels done on a vintage pr machine 2 yrs or so ago

haven't looked back since... https://www.facebook.com/VectorStudio22

[bob_s]

Joe
Deciding you are going to teach, whether it's formally or in this sort of forum, means that you will face a number of personal decisions.
Do I teach only learned individuals?
Do I try and teach at all levels?
Do I get aggravated by "dumb" questions?
Do I come and go from the venue as it suits my mood and schedule?

Those are all yours to decide, but to intimidate those that come here looking for an answer or just some more general knowledge isn't right.
I know you have tried to be a leader in this area, but not everyone has the drive, education, or time to be a sign "pro". I think the giving spirit of this board is what attracted me to Shopbot and CNC in general and I firmly believe it should stay that way.
Bob

[rej]

I wanted to stay silent on this - but I can't.

I think this entire thread is dead wrong, and puts down many shopbotters.
I know for a fact that not everyone on here putting down others even owns a shopbot. ( not you gene, I know you own one) I think this is a weird place to put down shopbot hobbyists when you don't even own the companies product. I think it is very dis-respectful to the company.
I sure wouldn't go on the vectric site and slam vectric hobby people if I owned artcam. I wouldn't do it if I owned vectric.

go to cnczone or signs101 or uksignboard or 3dsignforum.
but respect the shopbot company and its users. that's my opinion, and if you dis-agree, I hope we can still all be friends.

[Ken Sully]

Joe
Deciding you are going to teach, whether it's formally or in this sort of forum, means that you will face a number of personal decisions.
Do I teach only learned individuals?
Do I try and teach at all levels?
Do I get aggravated by "dumb" questions?
Do I come and go from the venue as it suits my mood and schedule?

Those are all yours to decide, but to intimidate those that come here looking for an answer or just some more general knowledge isn't right.
I know you have tried to be a leader in this area, but not everyone has the drive, education, or time to be a sign "pro". I think the giving spirit of this board is what attracted me to Shopbot and CNC in general and I firmly believe it should stay that way.
Bob

Bob,
Well said! The main reason I purchased ShopBot is largely due to this forum.
I am marveled to see the work many do with their units. I only hope to do half as well! I am a hobbyist and retired I have worked hard to raise my kids and sent them on life's journey and happy to report they are both fine.
I only hope I will be the source for answers to Bot questions in the future.

[cnc_works]

I gotta say I have heard no one put down hobbyists or anyone else in this thread. What I have heard are preferences as to where mentoring or instructive energy is devoted.

I can understand if your inclination is to help all comers, hobbyist or pro...more power to you.

But I understand and emphasize with Joe wanting to limit his focus to those who may NEED the help the most, those who are sometimes struggling to make a living for themselves and their family with their craft/work.

Joe, I do appreciate your posts and I benefit for your insight and experience wherever I am at my level of hobbyist/breadwinner.

[joe]

Ken,

Thanks for checking in. The word is out we will be having a workshop in the fall when the weather cools down. After that, we'll be setting up for two each year.

Unlike the hobby type workshops these will be limited to businesses. It will necessary to keep the class size small in order to give personal assistance.

I've been working on a curriculum directed at "Signage Which Sells:. There won't be any exotic materials or sculpturing in concrete. Most of what we'll be working are readily available in our communities.

More on this later.

Joe Crumley

[Xray]

Time is precious. I'm here to help those who have businesses.

With your experience and knowledge I know the hobby guys would appreciate your becoming active again.

Joe, you are absolutely free to help out anyone you want, thats a given.
I just don't see the need to throw little darts at others in the process. CNC is a fast growing racket, pros are always going to be far outnumbered by noobs, and those like me who are in between hobbyists & pros - No doubt machine makers like Shopbot hope this trend flourishes and grows.
Todays hobbyist might be tomorrows CNC business man or master sign maker, it only takes a spark to start a fire - And if they remain tinkering hobbyist for life, why would that matter to anyone else, including you ?

[danhamm]

I think Robert and Doug, should do some reading from the archives, its this forum and people like Joe , Doc, Brady, and many others that offered up their time and methods that made shopbot a success,ever heard of Ron Varela and his server? all your words are doing is riling up the oldtimes. in my opinion.

By the way Joe owned a shopbot.