1" PVC Work for this Sign?

[RossMosh]

I have my first sign project for a paying customer and I'm second thinking my material selection. Originally I spec'd out 1" white Komacel PVC 40"w x 27"h. I liked it because it would finish quickly and easily and it's durable and stable. I wanted to keep my problems to a minimum and the customer didn't want to spend a lot for a sign. Now my normal distributor doesn't have it in stock and won't for about a week or two, which puts it close to my deadline.

So I have a few options.

1. Luckily I have another distributor close by that has the 1" Komacel in stock. I can just order it and move on with my life.
2. My normal distributor also has 1" Ex-Cel PVC in stock. I never looked into it so I have no idea if it's comparable to Komacel.
3. The last choice is just go with 15lb Duna HDU. I know it's a bit more work to finish and a bit more temperamental with mounting, but this sign is simple enough where it shouldn't become a real issue.

Opinions or suggestions?

[joe]

Ross,

I'd like to make a suggestion or two on your first commercial work.

Either material, PVC or HDU are good choices. How are you going to finish the panel and what routing technique will be used? Are the letters raised or incised?

While the panel shape gets a C+, the layout on the copy needs some help. The way it is now Boaring! It looks as if you just set Times Roman and left it there, all the same size and weight. For the sake of others on the forum, lets see if there aren't other options.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[RossMosh]

Ross,

I'd like to make a suggestion or two on your first commercial work.

Either material, PVC or HDU are good choices. How are you going to finish the panel and what routing technique will be used? Are the letters raised or incised?

While the panel shape gets a C+, the layout on the copy needs some help. The way it is now Boaring! It looks as if you just set Times Roman and left it there, all the same size and weight. For the sake of others on the forum, lets see if there aren't other options.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

Assuming I stick with PVC, the idea was Zinnser primer, Sherwin Williams Latex paint, mask with Gerber Yellow, carve/cut, spray White Gloss Krylon Fusion paint for the letters, and paint the sides.

The technique is a simple v-carve for 90% of the sign. I planned on using a 120deg 2" V bit. The CPNJ top part will be pocketed with raised letters. I haven't 100% decided how I'm going to do that top section. The letters are supposed to be purple so I'm thinking of doing something with laser cut painted acrylic.

As for the layout, I agree with a lot of your criticism. Some of the reasoning is intentional and some if it is just due to the limitations of my design ability. The sign is going on a house for those with cerebral palsy. I wanted the sign to be easy to read from a distance and from up close. They wanted the sign to be "medium sized" and they really liked that panel design. Originally it was only 2 lines of text but then it was expanded to 3. I couldn't find a way to change emphasis on one line vs the other without throwing off the balance of the sign or making the certain lines difficult to read from the street/driveway. Also, I was given the impression that the donor felt all of the lines were equally important. Lastly, the client seems to prefer signs like this. We've done various signs for them in the past and they've preferred this simpler style. Now I'll be the first to admit, we're not feeding them the most creative work in the world as a counter balance, but any time we take a step in the other direction, they prefer the original direction.

Hopefully next time I'll get a B-.

[joe]

Ross,

It seems you and the client are satisfied.

There are the Principals of Design, like Unity, Dominance, Variety, Magnetism, etc. Every good sign falls in with these rules. The client doesn't know anything about them or how they are applied. Of the eight, there are three fundamental rules violated. If you're happy, so am I.

If you have mercy on the client, never use Krylon on anything permanent.

Always set the type first. Make the panel fit the copy. It's liberating and gives you lots of options to make the sign more readable.


Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[RossMosh]

Happy and satisfied are two words that are hard to use in this industry. I'm positive the sign design could be better. I was simply stating where I was coming from and why various decisions were made.

Next time I'll try starting with the typeset and then fit the panel to that.

[Rob Gunn]

Ross, PVC would work just fine. This is a sign we just finished a few weeks ago and it was 1" PVC. I cut it with a 120 deg v-bit.

[joe]

Rob,

Congratulations of the commercial work. Hope you keep it up.

You're routing techniques and ability are top drawer. The gold inlay looks very good also. It looks as if the background was existing and you applied the panel to that. I'm sure the PVC will last for years.

I'm still scratching my head over the oval at the top. It's begging for something to be placed in there. Why didn't you put the address numbers from the bottom of the panel up there? Or something to make sense of the oval.

Keep up the good work.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[Rob Gunn]

Joe, Thanks for the complement. We didn't supply the base structure, it already existed from a previous sign, all we did was the new lettered panel (both sides). The oval at the top was something the customer requested. I think he is going to instal some decorative design or photo. As we know, "the customer is always right" so he can do whatever he wants...

[joe]

That's not exactly right. You gotta think this one over.

In previous posts we've seen the same excuse, the customer wants all the letters to look the same, or the shape of the panel has been approved and they like it.

Once you set down with a client and get down to the brass tacks, you'll discover they have no clue what they're asking for. I guarantee you they can't visualize the finished sign. In order to make progress you should have a grasps of what the client really needs. Once you have gained your confidence the fun work begins.

Most guys with a CNC haven't learned much about designing and don't have enough understanding of what make a panel read well and look great. Please think it over, what the client says he wants isn't always correct. All you have to do is ask by saying, "I have a couple of idea's that might make this panel a little more interesting." Would you be open to see some options?" You gotta take charge of saving your reputation. Clients can lead you down the wrong path.

Last year I had a couple of clients that insisted in making changes to some of my signs. Like you, I bowed to their requests. I've been upset ever since. To this day they think the signs look great. But they don't and I'm embarrassed I let them make suggestions. Unfortunately those panels will never go in my portfolio or be shown as examples.

Joe Crumley
www.normnsignco.com

[Rob Gunn]

Joe, This conversation could go on forever and I do appreciate your option. I see your point but I don't completely agree. When I have a customer request of me to do a job and they have there own layout and have cash in hand, guess what I am going to do? I am going to do exactly what they ask. I am in business to provide for my family and give the customer what they want. We both win.

I do agree with you that its OK to make suggestions to the customer, or at least ask questions like "whats the oval for" but in the end I will give them what they ask for and are paying for.

I guess we live in two different worlds. I come from a engineering / machining background. In that world we give exactly what the customer asks for, per the print.

Now if a customer doesn't have a clue what they want and needs concept and design then that is where my partner would take over. She would do the concept and design and suggest what would work for the best result. However, there is a cost for that service, she is not going to do that service for free. In the end the customer will still have the final say of what they want.

I guess the answer is there are different was of looking at different projects with different scenarios. Not all projects are the same and have to be looked at the same. I would love to hear other options on this.