A new substrate for us.

[joe]

I'm always on the lookout for new sign building materials. The old favorite “Extira” is getting harder to acquire. Our local dealers are out and who knows when they will have it again. I really like that material in every way except for the weight. I've lost interest in HDU for several reasons. First off it's finicky. It doesn't like bolts, screws, or attachment to anything except itself. And it's expensive. You gotta watch out for warping also. O did I mention expensive?


Another interesting possibility is PVC. I checked on the price of 1” and it's about half the cost of HDU. Although it's also heavy, once machined down that could be reduced. I see that Gorilla Glue now has an PVC adhesive that's user friendly. No more stinky chemical smell and cleans up with water. They claim it's tougher than the material itself. The preliminary tests look very interesting. One of the advantages with PVC is it like screws and mechanical fasteners. I've found it easy to paint with most latex and acrylic materials. And there isn't all that priming to cover up the little holes we have with HDU and it's tough. The down side is you can't sand it.


I'm presently finishing up a double sided 4X10 HDU sign. I'm happy with the finished piece but, I've grown tired of HDU. I'm moving away from it. Next week I have another large two sided sign which is a replacement for a hail damaged HDU. Hail and HDU don't mix. This year we've replaced four HDU signs with this same problem. The average cost is in the 4K and up. I've never replaced a Cedar or Extira sign from hail damage. This may be my golden opportunity to give PVC a try. I'm sure hail won't have any effect on it.


Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[GeneMpls]

I believe I have heard that PVC is used in Europe in the place of particle board
for construction. Gene

[curtiss]

Joe,

Have you started to write your book yet ?? I would think 400-500 pages would about cover the story.

As always, thanks for the information.

[joe]

Gene,

There are several artists using PVC materials as substrates in this country also. It comes in several versions. For example Ken Z. sent me a link from a company who makes their boards from recycled carpet material. However they are located in the South East without any outlets here. Ken says it's twice as strong as most other PVC boards.

I've been cutting letters with 1/2" & 3/4" from PVC materials for years without any problems. The complaint of warping has not been seen here. Well, except on the colored PVC. It'll warp for sure.

All my ground signs have depth to them. From face to face they are usually in excess of 4". Most are 5" or 6" in thickness. That means the interior of the signs will need cleats to fill in the void. That's no problem at all. My only concern is the method I'll need to use when creating the detailed profile corners .

Joe Crumley

[bleeth]

Joe:

You can sand it. I have. You can also work it with chisels, gouges, etc. You can't sandblast texture. That is what I was told by others.

Who and where in the Southeast? I know someone who lives there.

[RossMosh]

If you want to look into a new material, Corian is a good material. It's expensive but it's an option in some applications.

I am curious about your statement about PVC being half the price of HDU. From my two suppliers the pricing is Duna 15lb - Komacel - Duna 20lb. I liked working with PVC but I think I'd like it a lot more if it were cheaper.

Also, does machining time figure into your choice of material? HDU is a lot easier on bits and the machine than PVC. PVC isn't the hardest material in the world to machine but it is gummy and offers a lot more resistance than HDU.

[danhamm]

Yes I just priced 1 inch grey PVC here in Canada cost 498.00 a sheet and 172.50 shipping its more expensive than HDU.

[twelchPTM]

The only thing I don't under stand about this thread it the use of the term PVC as if it is a defined item, PVC or polyvinylchloride can be bound in so many forms it is almost mindboggling. I even have a coat that says the shell is 100% PVC. anywho... the reason I am picking at this is because I wanted to point out that there are versions of PVC sheet good available with an expanded core (almost foam like) that cuts the weight of the panel down exponentially. I can't weigh in on how well it holds up once carved because I haven't used it for anything other then cutting out basic shapes and worst of all I don't know where to get it because what I have used was in the shop long before I was and the only label identified the material but not the mfg.

[wberminio]

Hi Joe
I'm not really a sign maker,but i have been using PVC for the few exterior signs
I have been getting,
Cuts great and finishes great!

[bleeth]

Tom: That's the stuff we're talking about. It is expanded core sheet PVC so the interior is not as dense as PVC Pipe but still pretty dense and works well as sign material. Made by a bunch of folks and available in various thicknesses at plastic jobber houses like Llaird, etc.
It's still a lot heavier per sheet than HDU.