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Thread: How does a router measure up to a spindle?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Kennebunkport, Maine
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    4,419

    Default

    2000 words.Desktop with spindle in cherry last week(excuse the cat hair). Maple and ebony are crisper. Ran program twice. Never even seen a Buddy, any body got detail work?
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    scott P.
    2013 Desktop/spindle/VCP 11.5**
    Maine

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SOUTH CENTRAL COLORADO
    Posts
    1,155

    Default so many suggestions with only one to go forward with

    Footprint was my deciding factor. Get the largest one that will fit in your garage. I have the buddy 32 with a 4 ft power stick and router. For me I like the noise (I live in the country) because when you are away from the machine you can usually tell if there is a problem.

    I do mostly plaques and I am not unhappy with the detail cutting. Here is a picture of one completed coat rack.
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tulsa Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,238

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    Noise is a real issue, especially close to the machine. The cutting process creates a lot of noise too, so getting a spindle only helps a little bit.

    Save some money for really good hearing protection no matter what you buy. My recommendation is NRR-III from zee medical supplies, $40 for 200 pair:

    http://www.zeemedical.net/index.php?...product_id=101

    or search for: "NRR III TAPERED PLUG,WO/CD 200PR/BX"

    These foam plugs are the best foam plugs I have found so far. Then for long cuts, I add 33db ear muffs on top of that. The result is nice and quiet in my ears. When I am wearing both layers, if I open my mouth enough noise gets in, that it makes a very noticeable effect.

    All that doesn't help with the neighbors tho. My suggestion is insulate your garage door. That helps in the winter and summer also with heat/cooling. The biggest problem with noise, is you have to listen to ALL of it, you cannot walk away from a running machine. An unsupervised machine is a fire hazard. The time between smoke and flame is just a few seconds. The risk is higher when you are learning. Its not such a big problem that I would fear running it in a garage tho, just be aware.

    Yes these machines make noise, so do lawnmowers, leaf blowers, etc which are much louder at your neighbors house.

    They can still complain and become a real nuisance. Hopefully you get your business off the ground so you can move out of the garage.

    As to 1/8" bits. I run them all the time. Most of the time actually. They cost less, and give better detail. I used the ER-11 stubby collet chuck from ENCO on my PC router. The wrenches for the ER-11 collett nut is a standard 1/2" open end. Makes bit changes really easy.

    My suggestions:
    Buy the PC router
    Buy an Alpha BT-48 if you have room (its a pretty big machine tho!)
    Buy an Aplha BT-32 if you dont. (Thats what I have)
    Get a 4' powerstick in the near future after you have recovered from initial costs.
    Insulate your garage door.
    Buy really high quality hearing protection. Years from now you will appreciate that.
    Buy good safety glasses. Stuff does get loose occasionally.
    Look up Andrew Coholics excellent roller improvement for the BT table. Build one.
    Buy the Kent CNC dust skirt. Even if you are using a shopvac at first.
    Buy the ER-11 Collet and extenders per Brady Watsons advice:

    http://www.shopbotblog.com/index.php...-a-little-bit/

    Read the google docs article on router bits. It can save you time and money.

    Also.. plan to make throw away projects for a day or two before cutting anything valuable! Make air-cuts with no bit at first. Learn what to expect when things are running correctly.

    My most important advice? Get started- you will learn all this soon enough... its not rocket surgery.

    D
    "The best thing about building something new is either you succeed or learn something. Its a win-win situation."

    --Greg Westbrook

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    344

    Default

    I think the noise issue is highly overrated with routers - My power vac is certainly alot louder, and in any case when the bit bites into the material is where you'll get the real noise, and this is the same regardless of which one you use. My house is about 40 ft from garage, I can barely hear it from there. But yes, its a power tool and it produces some sound.
    I have done dozens if not 100's of very detailed projects with a router, I can't say for certain if they would have been even more detailed with a spindle, but I don't think it would be anything that the eyeball could perceive.
    Spindles also have a time eating warmup routine that must be adhered to, routers don't. Cost wise, spindles allegedly have a far greater service life, but thats of little consolation to those that do die prematurely and the owner has to spend $1,000's to repair or replace. My router has been humming along for almost 3 years with just 1 $25 change of brushes, and I could replace the whole unit overnight for $150, whereas a downed spindle you might be waiting weeks and certainly over $1k. Chinese especially is a roll of the dice, you generally get no support, questionable warranty and as always, questionable workmanship.
    I wouldn't buy a $25 grinder from harbor freight, certainly would not buy a $1k+ spindle either. If I had to have one for hard production use I'd bite the bullet and pony up for a non Chinese model, you generally get what you pay for.

    BTW, I walk away from my running machine quite a bit, sometimes for hours at a time. May be a slight risk, but one of the major benefits of having an automated machine is the fact that once it starts cutting, no further intervention is required on your part, and you can do other things while its working. I figure worse that can happen is a broken bit, that wouldn't be changed if I was standing there watching it. I do have a smoke alarm that will call my cell phone if it goes off ,,, And alot of folks these days have web cams or whatnot so they can take a look at it via smart phone wherever they happen to be. But I think the notion that you have to stay in visual range at all times while its running is far fetched & unnecessary.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Diamond Lake, WA
    Posts
    1,746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dana_swift View Post
    Yes these machines make noise, so do lawnmowers, leaf blowers, etc which are much louder at your neighbors house.
    D
    If you have run a Dewalt 735 planer, you know how loud that is. The Buddy I had with the router was much louder then that planer.

    I agree with the double layer of noise protection for your ears. I lost a lot of hearing while in the military and don't want to loose what I have left...
    Don
    Diamond Lake Custom Woodworks, LLC
    www.dlwoodworks.com
    ***********************************
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and well preserved piece; But to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, bank accounts empty, credit cards maxed out, defiantly shouting "Geronimo"!

    If you make something idiot proof, all they do is create a better idiot.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Kennebunkport, Maine
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    4,419

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    Maybe beating a dead horse, But not sure people realize how quiet the Desktop with spindle is using small bits. Using a 1/8" carbide countersink(all cuts in pic done with this bit but used an old one as it was a personal job)http://www.carbideplus.com/Carbide_6...331-001050.htm and have to listen very closely even without the Fein running to hear it cutting at .09" depth. Only 1/4" bits are loud enough to matter and for those I stick my Peltors on. Did this yesterday while my other was here and held a pleasant conversation while it was cutting the cats.
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    scott P.
    2013 Desktop/spindle/VCP 11.5**
    Maine

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Was talking with Scott in PMs where he offered to cut a test piece on his Desktop. I didn't have a file ready but I found an example online of the detail I'm looking for, he suggested I post it here as well.

    Not my die but the relief detail required to emboss that small typography is what I'll need. Could a Buddy with a spindle handle that?
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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Kennebunkport, Maine
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    4,419

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    Weston, Pic I tried to PM and couldn't. font .18" approx. Guys(and Ladies) he's trying to do similar to the leather. What's the white material on the die? How does it carve?
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    scott P.
    2013 Desktop/spindle/VCP 11.5**
    Maine

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    iBILD Solutions - Southern NJ
    Posts
    7,986

    Default

    Router Vs Spindle...

    Noise. It isn't how loud it is, it is the frequency of the noise. Porter Cables make that horrific whine, that really gets to you after listening to it for hours. Very annoying.

    The air cooled Asian spindles are the same or just a little more than a 7518...and PC sold out, and manufactures them in China anyway - so do the math.

    -B
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - Vectric Custom Video Training IBILD.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Springfield Mo
    Posts
    851

    Default hearing

    I saw a pair of $4,800 hearing aids a few days back, $2,400 each w/o batteries... you want to use some ear protection out there.
    The decimal point seems to be the most important on the z axis... x & y not so much....
    ShopBot... Where even the scraps and things you mess up and throw away are cool....

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