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Thread: KD KItchen Trouble

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
    Posts
    771

    Default KD KItchen Trouble

    I finished the job in the picture below ,I posted this last Friday

    They the client where refereed by another client who I had respect for .They where allowed a low down payment on the kitchen until they closed the condo .I finished asked a few times for my payment

    I'll try to be vague because this is a public form .They called a installer there words
    He said
    "I called for a second opinion from an installer and he said the cabinet rails were not the same size---I'm assuming you know what that means. Both are just not proper to me but must be to you, or else you would not have said you were finished. I had a quote today on fixing the corner unit--he said it would cost me $1000.00 to remove the bulkhead and mounding to cut it properly to fit the corner doors. "
    :He also said to remove and re-align the upper cabinets would be another $2000-$4000 as it would all have to be removed and it was labor intensive"

    They are paying me minus 1,000 nothing in writing or no name .I'am going back there Monday .To say I'm speechless is an understatement

    What I'm asking is my fellow cabinet maker to give an opinion on the photo and how much would kitchen like that be worth across the country.You can pm if you want to thanks in advanced

    Also nobody call a cabinet rail its a revel which is 1 inch to cover the door its very hard to do its either right or wrong .There are flaw in any work done by hand but they didn't pick it up ,The cable beside the fridge we followed a uneven wall not mentioned
    Cheap customer trying to pull a fast one ,The problem in this area is the trades are treated bad here like crooks to many diy show.
    This job is at a condo they ask one of the handy man for the opion all the good trades people go to Alberta whats left are kids with little experince trying to prove something
    I've had people before ask for negative option on project to get a lower price never gave one never will

    They are saying it cost 5,000 to fix and where holding back a 1,000 not very serious but its my reputation this is how I make a living

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,305

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    Not sure if this would apply to you but here we can put a lien on the condo and they would have to pay it off before they could sell it

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
    Posts
    771

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    Jerry there willing to pay minus 1000 you can't put a lien under 1000

    They tried using we where late but that didn't work THE CONTRACTORER WHERE WORKING RIGHT TO THE LAST MINUTE

    I write because time to time this happens a lot with contractors .I posted to help some one else in this situation .It hurts your reputation they get greedy feel that you didn't work hard enough for your money there going to decided the payment scheduled

    I think what I'am going to do is all cabinets are paid before leaving the shop and just insulation to be paid

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chardon, Oh
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Is it possible to apply an overlay filler to tighten up the margin or will it compromise the door operation? Sometimes it helps to work out solutions with the client to resolve issues they have. Gorgeous kitchen design and execution.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,708

    Default

    You can take them to small claims court.

    Take their payment for now but don't give them a paid in full receipt. Send an invoice for the balance. Follow up with a collection notice with your intent to pursue legal collection methods and that any additional costs will be theirs.

    For the future, put all proposals in writing with payment terms and have them signed. Getting a deposit check is not the same as a signed agreement. Have collection language in your proposal that all claims are to be settled by official arbitration only (the language may differ from state to state or country to country but it is pretty well standardized at this point) and the loser pays any additional costs.

    A client recommended by another client is not the same as your client with whom you have a history. They are simply another new client that you don't know, and therefore needs to be treated as an unknown factor. In any negotiation the one who has the patience to stick to their position politely the longest wins. Have the job signed off on when you are done. Don't wait. When you are done, don't just tell them, have them sign that they have accepted the project. Issue a warranty in which they are required to give you the right to repair any deficiencies.

    This paperwork stops most of the chiselers from even trying because they understand that you are conducting yourself professionally and therefore are more likely to hold them to their end of the agreement.

    On this side of the border we also have something called a "Notice to Owner" It does vary state by state, but basically takes the form of putting the owner of the property on notice that you have the right to lien if the GC doesn't pay you. In the state where I live, you actually file it with the county and basically protects your lien rights until you release them, which of course, is when paid. No legitimate GC considers this to be anything beyond normal business, and has their own form for partial and final releases as payments are made. In another state I lived in all we had to do was send a letter to the owner and have a signed receipt of delivery.

    If this happens on a regular basis then you had better believe that the word is out that you will allow yourself to be chiseled. Forget the "competition". They don't mean a thing.

    Running the "business" side of a craft shop the right way can make the difference between success and failure. On a job that size a thousand bucks is most, if not all, of your net profit. The cost of filing a small calim is almost nothing.

    On the execution side of things, the wide reveals between the doors on the corner cabs is an execution error. The doors are not sized correctly. Blum hardware allows this type of door to have the same 1/8" space at the front of the door as you have on the straight runs. When I install this type of corner I gang the three boxes together and then lift them into place as one unit. This minimizes fiddling with them due to wall misalignment. Some years ago I bought a crank type cabinet lift and always install the uppers first. It's worth it's weight in gold.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Do you have a late payment clause in there that would put you over the $1000 mark

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
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    771

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    Dave that's good advice I'll get more signatures .

    Jerry no late payment did some extra work

    I've enclosed 3 example of corner the reason is that when you go 1 inch beyond and a full overlay door you can't line up .Its hard to explain in this form .YOU CAN LINE UP WITH INLAY but I CAN'T GET THE EXTRA MONEY

    There looking for an excuse to keep some of the money maybe they can buy a couch the installer is probley a family member .If it was the contractor of the condo I could sue no serious company wants to get involved with something so trivial.

    I'LL PRINT THESE 3 PICTURES PLUS BRING AN EXAMPLE THE MATH I ASK TO MEET INSTALLER NO ANSWER
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
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    Kevin: Your examples 2 and 3 show what I meant. You have overlay doors and a 1/8" reveal between. Notice how the crown header lines up as well. This is how we build them.
    Face frame does make the math for this easier, and although pic #1 does make it easier for the install, extra finishing of the finished sides and larger cabs makes it more expensive. This design doesn't allow for low ceilings either. I also charge more for face frame cabs. It's a lot more work and I won't use 1/2" ply like the big box store cabs do.

    If you draw a plan section of the cabs with doors you can then size them perfect. When I was first figuring out how to do these I drew it full size on a piece of cardboard and then did my own formula from that to use later.

    That was before I knew Autocad, or Artcam.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
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    771

    Default

    There never been a compliant just fishing

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
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    Default

    Here is a crude drawing to explain I have full overlay door I cannot make smaller or you;ll see inside cabinet
    The only other way is mounding behind door and that what 95 percent of kitchen guys do .In my case getting that built in look with out doing inlay doors will never line up.So the only way around this is doing inlay doors but I have to get extra mony thanks for the help gave ideas and also fine tune the way I'am doing things
    Last edited by kevin; 11-29-2013 at 07:17 PM. Reason: add

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