Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Who pays for errors?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Posts
    685

    Default Who pays for errors?

    I've been talking to some high-end custom cabinet shops about doing some v-carving on cabinet doors and drawer fronts. One of the questions that has come up is, if I make an error in cutting (for example, the pattern is 90 degrees off) would I compensate the cabinet shop for just the material or both the material and the cabinet shop's labor?

    What do others do? Do you have this spelled out in a contract or purchase agreement?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Valcourt, Québec, Canada
    Posts
    1,887

    Default

    Hi Randall!

    I'd say that if the error(s) are from you, then assume yourelf fully... if you're partly in fault assume partly... if you truly believe that the errors are fom your customer specification(s)... then stand up to have yourself respected. I recently assumed my shop's labor for a sign in which the customer was'nt happy with the finish of this carved sign (very minors toolmarks from an intricate pocketting)... but the customer accepted to provide more material and to pay for the difference in labor involved into more intricate toolpathing (3D finishing; 4 hours instead of about 1...) and retouching his design.

    I personnaly prefer to keep this verbal for now... which leave some room for discussion...

    More than once I've "repaired" customer's errorS (like typos into signs and bad scaling of files) COMPLETLY FREELY which saved 'em the whole job... only once (or twice) I've heard good comment about this... they'll see that big your flaws but rarely notice your "good moves"... keep that in mind...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    The Traditional Rocking Horse Co.,
    Posts
    1,164

    Default

    Randall
    The legal take on this (at least in the UK) is as follows.
    The customers supplies the door, and expects to get back the door and the additional work, as specified, and at the agreed price.
    If this doesn't happen, then whatever the cost is to repeat this, in that the customer does end up with what was agreed, is down to who ever made the mistake.
    Say a neighbour wants the job doing, and purchases the doors.
    You would expect to have to pay the full cost of replacing the doors, wouldn't you?
    This might also include any extra costs incurred, like delivery for instance.
    I have also redone signs with typos, for free, as a 'good will' gesture.
    Do get the instructions clearly written and signed, even if a full blown contract isn't available.
    .............Mike

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    2,941

    Default

    Randall, can you get them to give you the blanks before they put their labour in?

    The compensation value is their cost - not their cost plus profit. They should not profit from your error. We have had some cases in touristy type gift shops where the typical signs "If you break it, you have to buy it" are displayed. (These darn shops hope that you break it - it increases their sales!) People are refusing to pay for stuff that was carelessly displayed, where aisles are narrow and shoppers bump into each other - shops should have insurance against that or take some risk themselves. The main points are, the maximum compensation should be the cost price of the item and there should be less compensation for careless (verbal) instructions.

    And if you have compensated someone for their "loss" then the "damaged" item becomes your property - they can't simply keep it, turn it over, and use it in another job!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    The Traditional Rocking Horse Co.,
    Posts
    1,164

    Default

    Gerald
    I disagree on one thing
    The compensation value is their loss, not their cost.
    If there loss includes lost profit, I feel you are liable.
    They should not gain by your error, but they also shouldnt lose by it.
    Instruction are frequently unclear. Sometimes the client doesnt really know what he wants until he sees what you have made, then says "I wanted it longer/thicker/curvier here"
    "and in pink"
    If it is a simple case of replacing the door, then its just the cost of replacement, I agree.
    As for signs in businesses, under UK law they have virtually no legal veracity.
    You can put a sign up in your workshop saying, "we accept no responsibility for any injury suffered by visitors to this workshop". Believe me, the judge will ignore it completely, when someone has tested how hot a spinning router bit is!
    ...............Mike

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    2,941

    Default

    Mike, the principle here is that our mistake should not double their profit on an item.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    The Traditional Rocking Horse Co.,
    Posts
    1,164

    Default

    I agree.
    They should not be in a better position after our mistake, but they should also not be in a worse one.
    My experience tells me that often problems occur because the client or customer has failed to give a fully accurate description of what was wanted.
    Now, I feel we have a duty of care here. If you are supplied with material so thin that when you V-carve the desired size, you break right through the material, even though you are obeying the clients instructions, you, as the expert should have noticed this and informed the client. Of course if they then issue the exact same instruction the problem becomes theirs.
    You really need to get as accurate a description, in writing, as possible. Without this, if something goes wrong, there is definately going to be two recollections on what was asked for.
    In the end, even if the client is at fault, it is likely that standing firm on your position will lose you a customer. It may also lose you other customers if he spreads the tale around.
    It comes down to a business decision. Is the cost of putting it right, after explaining the clients error, less than the possible loss of good will? If you make the client understand how the error occured, then put it right, maybe in the long term you do yourself some good.
    Circumstances at the time dictate what you should decide.
    ..................Mike

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    2,941

    Default

    Loss of a customer is not the end of a world. It is a liberating experience once you have learnt to say to someone "I am sorry that I can't seem to satisfy your standards, so I will not be taking any more work from you in the future". And the funny thing is that it doesn't destroy goodwill with the better customers. Invariably the better guys have also been burnt by the bad guys somewhere along the line. Life is too short.....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cabinets Plus of Augusta, Hephzibah Ga 30815
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Gerald , I agree
    I have a sign over the door of my shop that reads " everyone who passes thru this door brings me great joy. Some by comming and some by going" several definately by leaving .
    Gene

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flatwood Designs, cambridge Ohio
    Posts
    273

    Default

    I would much rather start with raw materials and let the cabinet shop build the door around the carving. I could do premade doors if absolutely necessary but I feel if I screw up someones work then I am liable and would expect the same if it were my work. If I gave the carving to the door shop and they messed up making the door I would expect them to pay me to make another carving. And Vice versa. I jst think it is good business.

    Bill

Similar Threads

  1. Doing the Best Work you Can Pays off.
    By genek in forum ShopBotter Message Board
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-01-2015, 11:52 AM
  2. Errors with CPP
    By crash5050 in forum CabinetPartsPro
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-01-2013, 10:44 AM
  3. My last sign pays off
    By dariggs in forum Sign Making
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-17-2012, 10:47 AM
  4. what pays thge bills... (well, mine anyhow)
    By Ajcoholic in forum Folder 2012
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 04-17-2012, 04:10 AM
  5. Com errors
    By alexS in forum Troubleshooting
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-12-2010, 04:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •