Copyright on artwork

[magic]

A company is supplying their logo.
I am designing a sign incorporating their existing art work.
I am not hired as an employe.

Can I copyright my elements of shape, textures and style ?

I would hate to spend 15 hours designing something then have them take it somewhere else.

Thanks.

[dlcw]

The way I handle this is I take a laptop with the previews on it. I show them the preview. They do not get anything until they have signed the estimate and made a deposit to reserve their spot in the production queue.

I've had customers that did exactly as you said. They take the previews I email to them and go elsewhere. Not real ethical if you ask me.

I especially do this with kitchen and bath designs along with any furniture designs. They get nothing until they pay for it. Tired of being Santa's workshop.

[dakers]

Joe Crumley knows how to make this problem work. He seems to be able to wear many hats.
Our office policy when we talk to customer is we get deposit for design after price for job is approved then we start design with them knowing the design portion is not a endless process.
for us this eliminates the copyright which really does not work. We can let them know up front we can work for them as a design agency if they want a design to bid out but we only say that as a last resort. we want to make the sign.
advertising agencies know how to sell design, Sign companies should know how to sell signs, We are trying to do both ( "trying")

if we do not get deposit before design ( which i have done hundreds of times) then the customer walks away and gets it done cheaper since we educated him to the point he has an idea of what he wants and a sketch.
However when i deal with nice honest people i always get the job even if i do not get deposit.

the problem comes when you are dealing with someone who does not know their budget, wants to micromanage, has no idea of what they want and changes mind all the time, has not checked zoning laws to see if what they want can be done. Those in our office say they have to control the process from the very beginning so they manage customer and customer expectations. I have had some really crazy customers who spin me around.

My last nightmare was for someone in our church, 50 hours design, never had budget, never could make up mind, did not even know where they wanted sign. They went somewhere else with everything at the last minute. I was getting tired of it all. it was almost a year changing things for her. The office told me not to do that again. so i am trying hard to obey our policy. The lady felt bad for doing that to us and i did not want to have a "day in court" with her about it so i told her it was probably my fault as i was not a sales person. What can i say, sometimes it takes a team, for me it does.

[magic]

Thank you. I really appreciate the story/ I've been caught-up with people like that too.

Here's the issue. This sign could end-up being made by the thousands and distributed to retail stores.

I know that some advertising companies and graphics companies with a lot of employees make a big impression and it's easier to convince a client that you (graphics house) need 10,000 for a logo but when the client comes to my one-man shop they don't see much value in my time.

So what's the best way to handle this because I believe my concept, including engeenering, will work well.

Thanks again.

[dakers]

http://drawsketch.about.com/cs/resou.../copyright.htm


has some info i pasted below. it seems complicated to me so if i were you and wanted to be sure the copyright was legal and for peace of mind i would contact a general attorney. i found a great atty who helps us with about anything fairly reasonably but never had him do copyright research.


you can google copyright protection for art.
i know you can also have a patent on how you do what you do.
copyright laws may vary from state to state.



i was told that to fight someone who took our copyrighted design legally was expensive to do but it sounds like for you it may be worth it if there is a problem.







Copyright legally belongs to the artist from the moment of creation. You don't need to mail yourself copies - that's another urban myth and a complete waste of time (you can't use it as evidence in a court case).
Should someone infringe your copyright, you cannot sue (in the United States; check local laws for other countries) unless you have registered with the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress. Its a small fee, so if you are concerned about copyright, it may well be worth it.
You may choose to sell copyright along with your artwork, to sell it with limitations, or retain it entirely. It is important that you make clear your intentions to buyers, in writing. Consider writing a copyright notice on the back of your drawing and include the small circled 'c' symbol beside your signature.
When publishing images on the internet, there are several methods to prevent misuse of your work. Some of these are:

• In the first instance, add a copyright symbol and written notice on the page.
• Post images as small and low-res as possible;
• Add a copyright notice watermark across the image;
• 'Cut' larger images into sections and join them in a table;
• Use scripting to disable copying and saving;
• Become informed - f

[bleeth]

An official "letter of intent" from the client is enforceable in court very easily. I wouldn't give them a single bit of design artwork without one that agrees to pay for design time if they do not have you fabricate. No professional client will balk at this. They are welcome to turn down your design, but not pirate it. My method on casework is to sit with the client and do the worst sketch you have ever seen on a legal pad and explain to them that I'm not a very good hand sketcher but explain to them what it means and then get the non-refundable deposit for developing a "true" shop drawing. The sketch, of course, leaves with me. I'll be damned before I spend the time at the computer doing an accurate drawing without being hired first.
Professional clients, such as REAL interior designers and contractors understand the rules of the game very well. It's only the private clients who are a pain in the ass this way.

[joe]

Majic,

This comes down to "Self Respect".

How on earth did you get yourself in this situation?

There are dozens of methods to get around being taken advantage of. By telling the client how much your looking forward to working with them accompanied by saying you have an hourly creative rate.

PROPOSALS:

On all proposals you should state the terms of use:

"Thank you for asking for the attached files. They are intended for you and your companies use and not to be duplicated or shown to others for the purpose price quotes or competitive bidding. These pages represent $250.00 in value."
Date
===========================

Signature-----------------------------------------------"
Do Not leave drawings without a signature.

Each item in on the drawing page should have the circled C.

Once you state your terms the road will be much smoother. So respect yourself by stating your requirement.

[SAR Monro]

No money, no designs. It's that simple. Stick to this rule and you'll never get burned. If a client refuses to deposit to start designs, there's a 99.99% chance they were going to find the design they liked best, then shop it to the cheapest hack who will reproduce it. It happens every day in this industry.

[joe]

If people treaty like an option
treat them like a choice.

[pleqtmnet]

We all need to take the time to sit down and write up an informational paper that goes to the potential customer on what we will do for what amount of money. The posts listed above explain this well, but how many of us take the time to sit down and actually right something up that can be handed to the customer, or make them sign and acknowledge before we begin. I have been guilty of it for years and trying to do better now. Most small businesses or sole proprietors just don't have the time, but what does it cost us in time when we don't lay down the foundation first?

I'm glad this post came up. It's time to get the document done and copies printed. We and our customers understand each other better once it's all put down on paper. Maybe part of the problem is wording the document correctly and we just give up after a few tries. I guess it's time to get something down on paper and make revisions until it's right.