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Thread: Grounding flexible dust collection hose - questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Thornton, PA
    Posts
    110

    Default Grounding flexible dust collection hose - questions

    Hi guys,

    I had my first lost communications yesterday (multiple times) after cutting 10+ projects, so now is time to address the DC grounding issue. I've ordered 50' of stranded copper to run inside of the hose. My com tests are scored in the low 80s so I'm assuming this has got to be my issue. Since I haven't seen any pictures of this implemented, I have a few questions:

    1) Should the wire run entire length of the hose? If so, how are securing the end at the dust foot since it is not connected at that end?

    2) Is it OK to tie into electrical ground (connects to grounding rod outside shop) at the end of the hose opposite of the machine? I have another 20' of PVC piping where the flexible hose connects, otherwise I would connect directly to the blower motor like normal.

    3) Should I just drill a hole in the end of the flexible pipe at the end closest to the PVC piping for the copper wire to poke through and seal up with glue?

    4) For those using blast gates and multiple connections - How are you running wire through these? Are you simply grounding each portion on it's own and hooking to a common ground?

    My setup:
    http://cdn.avsforum.com/c/cc/900x900...scg1l7azd.jpeg


    Thanks in advance guys.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Memphis TN
    Posts
    691

    Default

    I would be checking your other possible reasons for static. Are all moving metal components wired to ground? That means anything that moves has to have its own connection. Connect all ground wires to a common point. Be sure that the ground to earth is solid.

    The hose may be an issue but as far as I can tell, the hose grounding is more of a last chance thing than the first thing you should do.
    ShopBot Details:
    PRS Alpha 96x60x12
    4hp Spindle
    12" indexer
    Aspire
    Rhino

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Thornton, PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    I have seen this article:

    http://shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/...%2008%2007.pdf

    Not ALL of my rails are grounded, but then again I have a PRT Alpha with steel rails if that makes any difference. The previous owner had no other ground connections other than the DC hose and had no issues for years. There is a fair amount of static in the DC hose as of now. The only other change I had made yesterday was changing the port my USB hub is plugged into.

    From what I've read from Gary and Brady on here the hose is a very likely suspect and very common.

    http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...97&postcount=3

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Kennebunkport, Maine
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    Andrew, I don't know if it's connected to your problem, but on both our Desktops we have problems unless we have USB connected to the same slot as SB3 was installed on. We've moved both machines a couple of times and problems go away when we use the original slot. Maybe just us.
    Scott Plaisted
    2013 Desktop/spindle/VCP 9
    Maine

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    434

    Default

    I had comm issues as soon as I hooked up my DC. Ran copper wire thru the flex hose, at the ShopBot end I pulled out the hose and wrapped around the hose clamp to secure it, at the dust collector end I put small hole thru the plastic adapter and sealed the hole, and then connected wire to dust collector.

    Not sure if this is the "correct" way to do it, but as soon as I did that I've had no further comm issues (knock on wood it stays that way)

    And correct is in " " because what I've learned about grounding is that everyone has an opinion, and what works for one person does not work for another.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Memphis TN
    Posts
    691

    Default

    >> Not ALL of my rails are grounded, but then again I have a PRT Alpha with steel rails if that makes any difference.

    If it's not welded together it needs to be grounded with a copper wire.

    That's my opinion anyway.
    ShopBot Details:
    PRS Alpha 96x60x12
    4hp Spindle
    12" indexer
    Aspire
    Rhino

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Piedmont, SD
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Andrew:

    I fought this for the first two years of ownership of my machine. That experience has revealed it may be a number of issues combined. Since you're on the topic of grounding, follow it to the end, thus eliminating it from your checklist of what to do.

    Copper ground wire almost eliminated the issue for me. In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose. Remainder of my DC system is 100% metal, so I simply terminated the copper wire at same point as the flex hose, and grounded to the metal duct by fastening the wire with a sheet metal screw. Per SB assembly guide, I've got a substantial grounding point on one leg of the Shopbot, where paint was scuffed off and a grounding terminal was fastened by the electrician.

    Since you have lengths of PVC, you do need to make a grounding path to the dust collector housing, which in turn should have a grounding wire tracing directly back to your breaker box. Doing so through all of the duct is wise, as it will:
    1> Establish a fully grounded system that not only will assure you that you've done all you can for the SB issue, but,
    2> May also reduce static ignition fire hazard that many argue is present when utilizing PVC in this manner.

    What was the single most effective thing I did to really, really eliminate the dreaded lost comm's issue?
    Upgrade to latest version of control software. In my case, it exposed a few problems with my control computer trying to update unbeknownst to me (and contrary to the fact that all the proper update reminders were turned off in the user accounts settings of Win7 - keep an eye on that little flag indicating PC issues that need to be addressed on the right hand side of the start bar - you would not believe the rash of issues it caused!).
    I really do like the updated features, such as the memory keys now available on the keypad.

    Why would that help with communications? If you read up on the details:
    Enables 2X+ faster communications and 7X more information buffered on Control Card:
    Speed and buffering creates more robust communication between PC and Control Card....
    This is specifically meant to target the problems you and I have experienced with lost comm's.

    I have not lost communication since updating last month, and sincerely hope my experience helps you eliminate this issue - I feel your pain - (and hopefully no more!)

    Best of luck,

    Jeff
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Clayton, NC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jTr View Post

    In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose.
    Now thats a great idea, never would have thought of that, and thanks for the picture, I've printed it and will be doing something similar with my Kent dust shoe. Just hope I left enough slack down there to do this, else I'll be stranding some wire together.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2006
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    7,829

    Default

    I just skimmed each article but you are supposed to ground both ends of your wire. One end to your carriage/dustshoe, wire goes thru pipe then other end gets attached to your dust collector. I've been doing it this way for 8 years now with no issues.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Memphis TN
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jTr View Post
    Andrew:

    I fought this for the first two years of ownership of my machine. That experience has revealed it may be a number of issues combined. Since you're on the topic of grounding, follow it to the end, thus eliminating it from your checklist of what to do.

    Copper ground wire almost eliminated the issue for me. In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose. Remainder of my DC system is 100% metal, so I simply terminated the copper wire at same point as the flex hose, and grounded to the metal duct by fastening the wire with a sheet metal screw. Per SB assembly guide, I've got a substantial grounding point on one leg of the Shopbot, where paint was scuffed off and a grounding terminal was fastened by the electrician.

    Since you have lengths of PVC, you do need to make a grounding path to the dust collector housing, which in turn should have a grounding wire tracing directly back to your breaker box. Doing so through all of the duct is wise, as it will:
    1> Establish a fully grounded system that not only will assure you that you've done all you can for the SB issue, but,
    2> May also reduce static ignition fire hazard that many argue is present when utilizing PVC in this manner.

    What was the single most effective thing I did to really, really eliminate the dreaded lost comm's issue?
    Upgrade to latest version of control software. In my case, it exposed a few problems with my control computer trying to update unbeknownst to me (and contrary to the fact that all the proper update reminders were turned off in the user accounts settings of Win7 - keep an eye on that little flag indicating PC issues that need to be addressed on the right hand side of the start bar - you would not believe the rash of issues it caused!).
    I really do like the updated features, such as the memory keys now available on the keypad.

    Why would that help with communications? If you read up on the details: This is specifically meant to target the problems you and I have experienced with lost comm's.

    I have not lost communication since updating last month, and sincerely hope my experience helps you eliminate this issue - I feel your pain - (and hopefully no more!)

    Best of luck,

    Jeff
    That's a great idea! I can't tell you how many items (like gloves!) have gone down that damn tube and into the barrel. I'm going to add that to my Kent shoe too.
    ShopBot Details:
    PRS Alpha 96x60x12
    4hp Spindle
    12" indexer
    Aspire
    Rhino

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