Giving it your all

[bleeth]

Carvings done by at least one of the NW Tribes are also cut "nearly finished" on a cnc and then the last bit done by hand by tribe-members.
Local guy up there with a Shopbot!!!

[Xray]

I dunno, I take issue with the statement "After all, who would want something made on a machine when it could be hand crafted".
We obviously wouldn't be here if that was the case, there are alot of people who want something made on a machine. There is something to be said for both, they are not mutually exclusive, at least for a majority of folks. [I made alot of hand crafted items BTW along with CNC, sometimes hybrids of both].

I got a camper at a summer campground and often if I get bored I'll go wandering around, drink in hand, and go out socializing with folks sitting around their firepits. I ran into this one guy who fancies himself as a master woodworker, he has a roofed enclosure to his camper than is overfilled with all sorts of stuff he made, just a crazy variety [and most of it junk IMO].
Naturally we started talking about wood, tools ect and eventually i brought up CNC. He really scoffed at that and said hell, anyone can make something on a machine. I said maybe so, but one of your items takes you what, 2 days to 2 weeks to complete, I could probably make about the same in 2 hours and sell it for about as much. He scoffed at that too and it got to the point where he was close to getting insulting, so I walked away.
A few weeks later I walked by again and started talking to other people, someone there saw some of my works before and started talking about it then other folks got really curious about it. I happened to have a few of my things hanging in my trailer so I went back to my camper to refresh my drink and I grabbed a few and walked back.
People were amazed, I had one tribal mask thing carved in zebra wood, even the master was forced to admit it was superb. One chick said OMG I gotta have it, how much you want ? I ended up selling 4 things right there at the firepit, the master was chagrined, I think he was forced to reevaluate his position.

Now I know there are real master wood workers that can produce hand made works of art that are spectacular and get big $$ for them, more power to them, I appreciate art in all forms. But that is not going to make me feel like I've been brought down a notch because I do alot of machine work ,,, As I said, they can take 2 weeks carving their masterpieces, in 2 weeks I can kick out 2 dozen semi masterpieces that will, in the end, profit me more than their will.

[joe]

Doug,

Please show us what you're doing. Creative work isn't as easily explained with words as can be done with photo's.

Lets see what your doing.

Joe

[Brady Watson]

Artists have used high-tech tools throughout history to aid them in their work. A prime example of this is the camera obscura from at least the 15th century - and there are other examples as well.

This topic has come up many times over the years - where the employment of digital fabrication equipment or even power tools, in the creative process, somehow makes the finished work disingenuous. What fans of this team don't seem to realize is that it takes a human, with artistry and skill to translate a thought or concept into some type of physical work. I mean, going by that same type of thinking I guess they would prefer to wash their clothes down in the river? Yeah...thought so!

In this day & age, if you don't have any 'digital assistance' - it is very difficult to make a living at your craft. Unless you have made a name for yourself long ago & you're riding on the tails of these successes (Sam Maloof comes to mind), nobody is going to pay you enough per job to make a living. These are very rare cases. These days you have to multiply yourself in order to make money. Robots help to do this...and whether you are machining cabinets or 3D clip art - a human being had to come up with the design in the first place.

The robot is today's apprentice. It gets the work 70-90% complete. The artist is the manager of the robot and the master - who traditionally finished the pieces to make them 'pop'. Thanks to the 'everybody gets a trophy' crowd, labor is really expensive & nobody wants to pay for a master to do everything by hand...especially not at Walmart prices.

Now...How I relate to this sort of thing is, I work with artists on a daily basis. Many are getting into digital fabrication for the first time & need assistance bridging the gap between the 'old world' of analog to the new world of digital fabrication in one form or another. They use scan data for CNC routing, 3D printing, 3D visualization and rendering. Customers send me their physical objects and I scan them to 'get them into the computer'. From there - the original intention of the piece can be used as is or derivative works created from the model.

I've learned a lot by scanning literally thousands of parts over the years - often doing a double take, "What is THAT? It isn't on the original..." Only to find it in fact WAS on the part. Dents, dings, textures, crooked lines and other non-mathematically perfect designs - even if just a little bit - all make the model genuine. I seek to retain this in my work for the customer - which is an advantage using state of the art equipment in a laboratory, compared to consumer type scanners.

If you have a keen eye you can spot the 'plastic' looking designs coming in by the container load these days. This is in large part because it is faster (cheaper) to machine smooth mathematically 'perfect' designs than it is to retain all the good stuff - aka imperfections. Dead designs are totally smooth...they leave you subconsciously thinking, "Something is missing...but I can't put my finger on it." Imperfections keep the eye moving. This is a hallmark of good design.

I've learned that good design is imperfect. That is a reflection of humanity itself.


-B

[bleeth]

The honored Japanese artisan, whether he is a potter or a wood craftsman, will never output a product that is "perfect". This is considered an affront to the gods. If a particular piece appears to have no flaw than one will be introduced. No mistaking this for total machining. I personally know of no artisan that completes a project and is totally satisfied. There is always room for improvement and often there is no way to implement this improvement without mind to hand involvement. From fine luthier work to cabinets, our mills are just one more tool.

[Brady Watson]

I personally know of no artisan that completes a project and is totally satisfied. There is always room for improvement and often there is no way to implement this improvement without mind to hand involvement.

Yes Dave - thanks for mentioning this. I call it the builders curse. You, and you alone, know every blessed imperfection or 'sin' on the project.

I didn't know that about the Japanese culture - thanks for that as well.

-B

[bleeth]

Every day that we learn something is a good day.
I learned about Tapmatics today.
It all goes around.

[gc3]

these panels done on machine then touched by hand tools...stile, rail done by hand, sapele stock 20mm

[gc3]

"Now I know there are real master wood workers that can produce hand made works of art that are spectacular and get big $$ for them, more power to them, I appreciate art in all forms. But that is not going to make me feel like I've been brought down a notch because I do alot of machine work ,,, As I said, they can take 2 weeks carving their masterpieces, in 2 weeks I can kick out 2 dozen semi masterpieces that will, in the end, profit me more than their will."

semi masterpieces...

"The deepest and most lifelike emotion has been expressed, and that's the reason they have taken so long to execute. ”
-Rembrandt

3 months to produce this door to final install...combination of machine and hand carved pieces...http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/ca...casestudy.html

like Joe asks...show some photos

[Xray]

"Now I know there are real master wood workers that can produce hand made works of art that are spectacular and get big $$ for them, more power to them, I appreciate art in all forms. But that is not going to make me feel like I've been brought down a notch because I do alot of machine work ,,, As I said, they can take 2 weeks carving their masterpieces, in 2 weeks I can kick out 2 dozen semi masterpieces that will, in the end, profit me more than their will."

semi masterpieces...

"The deepest and most lifelike emotion has been expressed, and that's the reason they have taken so long to execute. ”
-Rembrandt

3 months to produce this door to final install...combination of machine and hand carved pieces...http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/ca...casestudy.html

like Joe asks...show some photos

Uh, what is it you guys are asking for, photos of my cnc work, hand work, what ?