Guilloche Pattern Generator

[bleeth]

Well, a high res bitmap could be translated and wrapped for an indexer in Aspire or Artcam.
Better than bitmap though would be a true vector output in dxf or ai as so often even high res bitmaps need a lot of cleanup after the bitmap to vector convertor in a cad/cam program does their thing.
Also means that all those who don't work in g-code (or whose version of g-code is different) can use it.

[JimmyD]

G.

To help with your motivation...............I will beta test it, help with it, purchase it. Working with the indexer would be a HUGE plus for me. I already have your other software and I applaud your creativeness and look forward to this also.

Jim

[DJMartins]

Scott, I appreciate your enthusiasm but I suspect you read criticism into Douglas post where I see rather a nudge to get me motivated

Please, my comments are far from criticism!
Ornamental turning/guilloche has been an interest of mine for a long time and I am offering encouragement!
Look at the listed webpage, ornamentalturning.net and the other one posted, wizardryinwood.com, for examples
of objects created on such lathes.
I feel there is a small need for such software because there is not a lot of people who even know about ornamental turning...
Some people have made and designed computer controlled ornamental lathe
type projects but it has been a while since I've seen one.
I don't see why a regular cnc router indexer couldn't do a lot of the work desired.
Also look at the stuff created with geometric chucks, used in the past to create papers that are difficult to counterfeit.
It is really spirograph type stuff.
All of it seems to be much easier done in the modern computer age as it is very mathematical, yet cumbersome to create
using standard CAD software.
I have over two decades of experience with Pro/Engineer and could do some it if using that software, but it would suck.
Cumbersome.
Starting with guilloche work is a great start, I'd love some software I could use to make clock faces/dash gauges/medallions with
my Taig cnc mill in brass, silver, or even aluminum.
How can you not look at some of the amazing and very old objects produced by ornamental turners and not think
that it could be done much easier by CNC machinery?
In the old days the turners would put hours and hours of tedious work into objects that could be ruined by one miscount
or indexing error!
Intense stuff.

[Burkhardt]

Cool! Looks like there might be some interest. Couple of statements/questions for feedback:
- Unlike a Rose Engine lathe that is using a hand guided chisel to define cutting depth, the CNC version would use a spindle and a carbide engraving bit. But I guess it would also work with a diamond drag bit, e.g. for lighted plexi designs or glass engraving.
- Flat circular patterns like dials or clock faces or box ornaments would be cut in 3-axis mode, no indexer needed
- For indexer machines, the traces could be rotated around the A axis instead of the center point for flat patterns. That way one could engrave a cylinder of a given diameter or a conical part. It might be necessary to include a surfacing toolpath to guarantee the proper cutting depth. My machine controller has a rotary roughing function but I am not sure if that is commonplace.
- functions the CNC can do easily (maybe impossible for a mechanical machine) are calculated depth/width fluctuations, pattern distortion to oval or rectangular, positive/negative vcarves or inlays.
- dxf output would be possible, but lose all the line depth/width information, not to mention potential rotary axis. Actually the bitmap output is pretty clean without random pixels since it follows a mathematical formula. After import into Vcarve, vectorisation with 5-pixel noise filter, curve smoothing to 0.004" and squishing to desired dimensions there was no manual correction necessary for the 2 or 3 designs that I tried so far. If somebody wants to experiment I have the earring bitmap attached with only 900x900 pixels.

ScreenHunter_01 Apr. 05 15.38.jpg

I would appreciate any and all suggestions. Right now I do not have a clear requirements list for this software and I am just playing with the possibilities.

[steve_g]

Gert…
The bitmap output works fine for me… Your suggested settings result in very smooth vectors, especially if you reduce them to earing size!
SG

[DJMartins]

Cool! Looks like there might be some interest. Couple of statements/questions for feedback:
- Unlike a Rose Engine lathe that is using a hand guided chisel to define cutting depth, the CNC version would use a spindle and a carbide engraving bit. But I guess it would also work with a diamond drag bit, e.g. for lighted plexi designs or glass engraving.

Most of the rose engine work was done by a cutting frame, of which there are various types.
Here's one to give you an idea of the sort of cutters they used:


Single point cutting bits could be various shapes for different types of patterns.

Here is a pic of a modern drilling frame:


Here is an image of a lathe cutting a pattern:



Some could be replaced by modern milling cutters.
One of the problems in the old days was sharpening the cutter and then getting it back in the exact same place so the
cut pattern wasn't messed up...

Pen barrel being turned on a Holtzapffel lathe:

[DJMartins]

Here's a pic of a single point tool cutting wood, but it is of the type often used for guilloche work:

[tri4sale]

Cool! Looks like there might be some interest.

I'll add my vote of having interest in this. I can see it used to make some nice patterns for box lids and jewelry patterns, and even wall art.

[DJMartins]

I'll add my vote of having interest in this. I can see it used to make some nice patterns for box lids and jewelry patterns, and even wall art.

There is a huge amount of different sorts of things made with a large number of techniques.
Immense field.
I think if you kept up with what you are doing and got it to the point where one could easily machine intricate patterns such as
spirograph stuff and the sorts of patterns already shown there's be lots of applications for it!
I know my wife would love jewelry boxes and wall art of the sort.

[Burkhardt]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

This ornamental turning business is really much more than I thought it to be. Great information.
I am beginning to feel guilty that I am trying to emulate the artistry and craftsmanship of such highly skilled specialists in software. But then, that is how things are going with CNC.

So far I have circular/orbital repeating patterns like a spirograph would do. I think my next step is adding the rotary axis feature as well as linear/parallel and linear/radial repeating patterns. Nice thing about this project is you can see results already on the screen and don't have to machine parts to see if they fit together.