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Thread: simple box: new modular (easy to build) vacuum box design

  1. #11
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    Joe- no vcarve files yet. The cut files are so simple that they should be super quick to make. (Let me know if you have questions.) I'll definitely consider making them if this design becoming popular enough that people would find them useful. I just made the box in a few stages so I'd have to sort out which vcarve files made the final parts.

    Scott- it's one of the quietest things in my shop and I'm pretty noise conscious. And, I hope releasing the documentation can make this useful for OTHERS as well as myself. Documentation has always seemed to fall a bit short with other vacbox designs. There is also little reason for everyone to create a new design or guess at how to build one.

    Regarding 120v motor selection- talk with Ward at Lighthouse motors. He might have a thought or two. I don't have any experience with 120v motors as it relates to this design.

    Regarding the vac with 1,2,3,4 motors- there is a lot to test. I haven't tested it in a controlled way because it would be determined by what I have on the table, how porous it is, how tight my plumbing is, etc. I can tell you that I have no trouble holding down parts on my 5ftx10ft shopbot- often with fewer than all 4 motors running. There are not leaks that I can detect in my system.

  2. #12
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    Apr 2011
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    New Jersey
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    I see one minor thing that I would change and one concern.

    The minor thing is I'd make the box out of one material type. Different people have different stuff floating around their shop, and that's fair enough, but I think it makes sense to spec it out as 2 sheets of one type of material vs 1.5 of .75" and .5 of .5".

    My concern is how well the blast gate will seal. Your highest pressure differential will be at the blast gates. You're going to see a -8psi difference probably, which isn't a small amount. Might be an issue.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossMosh View Post
    I see one minor thing that I would change and one concern.

    The minor thing is I'd make the box out of one material type. Different people have different stuff floating around their shop, and that's fair enough, but I think it makes sense to spec it out as 2 sheets of one type of material vs 1.5 of .75" and .5 of .5".

    My concern is how well the blast gate will seal. Your highest pressure differential will be at the blast gates. You're going to see a -8psi difference probably, which isn't a small amount. Might be an issue.
    Good point regarding materials. The design can certainly be modified for that purpose, and I'd be happy to make it part of v2. You're also welcome to make the modification if you have the bandwidth and access to Rhino or interest in downloading the 30-day trial.

    Regarding the blast gates- they are operating very well now. Also, similar valves (if not the same) have been used by folks in ways that expose them to similar vacuum loads. You may be able to find them if you poke around a bit in the forums. I haven't heard of any issues with them. Yet, your point is well received. Time will tell. This is certainly still a beta design.

    Thanks for your feedback.

  4. #14
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    This looks like it has very good potential Josh. I have a couple of questions or concerns. To evaluate your system I think you need vacuum gauge. hard to evaluate without measurement. Also I question your thermal protection. Does it shut the motor off if too hot? Could be expensive or even dangerous unless you have it go through a machine shutdown before shutting down the vac motor.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobmoore View Post
    This looks like it has very good potential Josh. I have a couple of questions or concerns. To evaluate your system I think you need vacuum gauge. hard to evaluate without measurement. Also I question your thermal protection. Does it shut the motor off if too hot? Could be expensive or even dangerous unless you have it go through a machine shutdown before shutting down the vac motor.
    Hi Bob,
    I've got a gauge and the system will pull 9 inHg with 1/4in bleeder holes open on all 4 motors. I believe this is inline with what one should expect with these motors.

    Good feedback regarding motor shutdown. It's something I considered as well. It does shutdown the motors without warning if they get too hot. Personally, I would rather have a system that shuts down the motors (and leaves my part without hold down) rather than burning them out. I think any kind of thermal shutdown is new to what I've seen documented on the forums and I thought I would take a first approach. I also wanted to protect the motors with a completely untested design.

    Since this is a beta, I went with the simplest implementation I could. V2 could certainly have a more sophisticated shutdown routine or a simple temperature indicator light. Beta testers could decided to remove the thermal protection entirely (at their own risk!). What is your preference for thermal protection?

    Thanks for your feedback,
    Josh

  6. #16
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    , On
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    I think the heat warning light would be a great addition. Without the shutdown, it will still shut down if the motors burn out.

    you will still lose a bit, and materials and all the time. With the shutdown you don't lose the motors too...

    Thank you for sharing your design. I really appreciate your design and you sharing it.

  7. #17
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    Has anyone started building a vac box using my design? I'm curious about your experience. Any big hurdles?

  8. #18
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    It's customary, and just good manners, to cite the origins of an open source project when you 'remix' something.

    I brought out the original Open Source Vacuum project using Lighthouse motors in 2007 for the benefit of the ShopBot community.

    A reference to my original project thread somewhere in your project is fair, reasonable and status quo for open source these days...

    -B
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - Vectric Custom Video Training IBILD.com

  9. #19
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    Hi Brady,
    I haven't taken a close look at your box. (I have not read the thread you quoted, and appreciate your citation.) Other than similar motors that seemed to be used across many boxes, what design features do you think are original to your design and were also used in mine? I am very interested in adding references and giving credit when it is due. Feel free to be in touch with me directly if you have any fair use concerns. My intent is to respect others' work before me.

    Best,
    Josh
    Last edited by Josh Beckmann; 01-22-2016 at 10:45 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Beckmann View Post
    Hi Brady,
    I haven't taken a close look at your box. (I have not read the thread you quoted, and appreciate your citation.) Other than similar motors that seemed to be used across many boxes, what design features do you think are original to your design and were also used in mine? I am very interested in adding references and giving credit when it is due. Feel free to be in touch with me directly if you have any fair use concerns. My intent is to respect others' work before me.
    This stands to be corrected. You could have easily located my 9-15 open source vacuum project had you done a simple search on the SBF. It is the original Lighthouse motor powered open source project on the ShopBot Forum & the basis for every commercial & non-commercial variant around the world that uses Lighthouse motors - bar none. It is modular by design. I literally spent months making calls and doing internet searches, in addition to analyzing compressor trim maps to find affordable motors for guys that didn't have 3 phase. Rather than shelf the research, I gave it freely to this community.

    There was no reference to Lighthouse vacuum motors in conjunction with CNC hold down back in 2005. Any reference to it on Ward's site is from me explaining to him the application & from others calling in to buy the motors. With a myriad of motors on the market, why did people choose Lighthouse? Why not Ametek/Lamb or some other brand? It's because nobody does extensive research into the subject. They just copied, and then copied the copies - which is fine, but let's not forget where the original came from.

    Now before anyone gets the wrong idea, I think it is great that you have taken an interest in this and have decided to grease the rails for those that need it. Thanks for contributing to the community. (seriously) I only wish that more folks would start open source projects to help the community.

    -B
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - Vectric Custom Video Training IBILD.com

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