eCabinet Renderings

[Keith Larrett]

It would be great to see more discussion of eCabinets and the ShopBot link. I'm sure there are others out there using the two and, if you are anything like me, you've got plenty of unanswered questions.

One of the guiding decisions behind my purchase of a ShopBot was the fact that I was able to purchase the ShopBot link for eCabinets.

I've been working diligently at trying to master eCabinets and am constantly finding new things that it can do. I still feel that I have a long way to go, but overall I'm pretty pleased with my progress. I've had a number of customers comment on the renderings and really feel that they help communicate to my customers that I understand their vision of what they want. It also helps for them to be able to see the rendering and visualize how the piece will fit in their home.

I've attached a couple renderings from some recent projects that I have bid on.

If anyone is looking for help on working with eCabinets, I'd highly recommend subscribing to the eCabinets Tips and Tricks channel on YouTube. Between that and the eCabinets forum, I've managed to figure out most of what I needed to do.

[chunkstyle]

Keith,
I've been using Ecabs for a while now and would agree that images are a helpful selling tool. Only problem I have had with Ecabs is how slow and clunky it is for rendering. If you track your time spent creating rooms in Ecabs vs. other similar programs you may find that Ecabs takes much longer. I'll use a combination of programs. One for creating the image I want in the most efficient way (sketchup, kcd, cad, etc...) and create the cutting files in Ecab. If it's a clipped corner diagional cabinet then 'fuggedaboutit'. I'll jump to another program as Ecabs is seriously jacked up for this type of cabinet configuration.
I started out trying to do it all in Ecabs but learned that it isn't a holy grail of cabinet making. Like most things, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. For me, what it can do for me it does very well but where it can't I accept and use what will. A case of choosing your battles.

[Keith Larrett]

I agree, all software has it's strengths and weaknesses. There are occasionally parts that I will filter from the nest in eCabinets and redraw and cut using VCarve Pro.

Also, there is no doubt that much of the time I spend in eCabinets is for presentation purposes and there are a number of parts in that presentation that can't be nested or cut on the CNC. However, it's great to know, that with a click of a button I can go from a presentation to cutting sheet goods with the ShopBot.

I tried Sketch Up a couple years ago. I found it very difficult and very tedious, especially if I needed to re-size a cabinet. It may have gotten better in the last couple years or someone may have come up with a plug in for that.

I guess part of the cost of a "free" program is the time spent in learning it, and the time spent learning eCabinets is not insignificant. However, after spending the $1200 for the ShopBot Link I decided that I needed to learn eCabinets well. So far I have been pleased. As I get familiar with the program and as my library of "seed cabinets" grows I find the time spent on the program decreases. I'm also starting to use the costing/pricing side of eCabinets to help me with estimating a job and ordering everything needed for a job.

Aside from SketchUp, what other similar programs are available? I don't have experience with any others, but it is always good to know what is available.

[Keith Larrett]

chunkstyle

I saw your reply to the following post on Zero to Bed

Are you zeroing to the surface bed using the ShopBot Link for eCabinets? If so, I'd really like to know how you are doing that. Thanks.

[chunkstyle]

Hey Keith,

Sorry for the delay responding to your questions. Fat guy in the red pajamas got in the way.
I've diversified a fair amount over the last couple of years. Most of the cabinet cutting is for other shops. When I do get a job in-house I do a traditional plan/elevations in a cad program. Maybe a cabinet image from E-cabs to help explain a tricky configuration.
When I was doing more in-house cabinet jobs I would rely on KCD. The monthly rental could be absorbed in the job and, considering the amount of time it would take to render a room in E-cabs, made more sense from a profit standpoint.
As far as tool changing goes, I modified a custom tool change file that was floating around for a while.
When the cutting file gets generated out of the Ecab link it will presumably have a coupla tool changes within a sheet (unless your trying to do everything with one tool bit). The link will create the file with tool changes in it. Those tool changes are handles by the Shopbot control software's custom files, It's that modified tool change file that is called up for a tool change operation that allows me to Z zero off the table. I would start with Shopbot support before attempting to make mods to your custom tool change files as they may already accommodate zeroing off table with a touch off plate in the O.E.M. custom tool change file these days. I bought my machine a few years ago and the Z zero plate method was the presumed method for zeroing a bit. This was less desirable for some of the cabinet cutting crowd.

[Keith Larrett]

I'm probably going to have to live with zeroing to the top of the material. I could follow instructions on modifying a file, but don't have the experience to customize a file myself. I found some documentation on the ShopBot site, but it was pertaining to a MTC. I have an ATC. I contacted ShopBot support and was given some stuff to try, but it didn't work. Then the case was passed on to someone else and after a couple of months of no replies to my emails I gave up on it. I'm guessing that support for the ShopBot Link is not a priority compared to support for other areas.

[chunkstyle]

Keith,

I'm not familiar with the way in which the SB ATC tool change files work. Are the tools set up in the tool holders with some kind of reference to the spoil board? Seems like having the ability to pick up the tool and start milling would be the big benefit with having an ATC? Can't imagine having to zero avry tool out after a tool change after spending the extra for the convenience of an ATC. Are you saying that you have to zero out every tool that gets picked picked up by the ATC during a cut file?
If you plan to cut cabinet parts it is in your interest to have your tooling zero'd off of the spoil board and not the top of your sheet goods which will vary, especially your plywoods. The spoil board will be your reference and you will get much more consistent fitting dado's, blind dado's and any RTA connection boring such as the flush fitting Rafix hardware.
Based on the number of link revisions and your experience for it with SB support you might be right about a waning interest in the Link. I hope not. Ecabs is a great cabinet cutting program.

[chunkstyle]

Hey Keith,
OCD kicked in and I did some reading that appears to give you the ability to record your Z-zero offsets by recording each tools Z offset just once when placed in tool holders here:

http://www.shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/files/ATC%20Software%20Setup%202012%2008%2007.pdf

[chunkstyle]

Around page 25 there's some description of zeroing out bits, in relation to table bed, when chucking bits into tool holders. I hope this means you can store tool z offsets to table bed and you can run cab parts by zeroing to table instead of sheet goods' top. Hope it helps.

Tim

[Keith Larrett]

Are you saying that you have to zero out every tool that gets picked picked up by the ATC during a cut file?

No. The tools in the tool holders are all referenced to each other. I only have to zero too the top of the material once.

If you plan to cut cabinet parts it is in your interest to have your tooling zero'd off of the spoil board and not the top of your sheet goods which will vary, especially your plywoods. The spoil board will be your reference and you will get much more consistent fitting dado's, blind dado's and any RTA connection boring such as the flush fitting Rafix hardware.

I agree with you. I'd really like to be able to reference to the spoil board for those reasons. I can do it when I use VCarve Pro, because I am able to tell the program whether I have zeroed to the surface of the material or the spoil board. But eCabinets and the ShopBot Link automatically assume zeroing to the surface of the material and I have no way of telling them otherwise.

I will read through the document you linked to and see if I can figure anything out from there. I don't have much experience with tool z offsets, just understand the concept, but maybe with some experimentation there is a solution there.

I appreciate your help Tim.