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Thread: What has happened to our creative postings?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Timmins, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,825

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    Its too bad that a few here seem to really have a thing against new CNC users asking about feed speeds, rpm's and overall cut stratedgies.

    In the real world, when it comes to other woodworking cutters (saw blades, shaper cutters etc) the tooling suppliers give you advice on these things. But when you give up control to the CNC router/spindle, and no longer feed by hand or with a manually set power feed, even experienced woodworkers like myself can get some help from others who have been there. Its actually crazy to think the best way to learn is to just go fire things up and take a chance. And that can be quite dangerous. I am all for learning how to do things by gaining experience, but it is good practice to ask for a starting point - one that will at least lead to some success and not put the machine, or operator in a dangerous situation.

    I remember when I started, several fellows here were MORE than willing to take the time to help me. I appreciated that a whole lot. And try and reciprocate when I can. Same goes with learning about vacuum hold downs. Or modifying the machine. Or cutting a new material.

    I find this forum one of the most laid back, friendly places to go on the internet. It still seems to serve a purpose to a whole lot of people, but unfortunately like everything else in life - not everyone will see it the same way.

    I will say it again - the CNC router is used for SO much more than just artistic 3D carving. And some of the most important things are just keeping the machine running well. Getting help when needed, and sharing some of the stuff we do.

    Its pretty unfair to fault the forum as a whole, just because it might not suit your exact likes/needs.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    150 Mile House B.C. Canada
    Posts
    530

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    I really don't think anyone is or would fault the Shopbot forum, and I know that wasn't in Joes mind when posting, you have to know Joe to realize what he is attempting, he is a teacher at heart and knows all the tricks and ins and outs of his sign trade, and it "seems" this forum has gone "quiet" on the sign front...for whatever reason and I think he was stirring to get some chat going, that is pretty much "my" opinion but I have only know Joe since he first posted asking if the shopbot he was going to buy was any good, way back in ancient history, I don't think his posts have ever hurt anyone.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    montreal quebec
    Posts
    110

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    Hello Joe, love your signs
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajcoholic View Post
    Its too bad that a few here seem to really have a thing against new CNC users asking about feed speeds, rpm's and overall cut stratedgies.

    In the real world, when it comes to other woodworking cutters (saw blades, shaper cutters etc) the tooling suppliers give you advice on these things. But when you give up control to the CNC router/spindle, and no longer feed by hand or with a manually set power feed, even experienced woodworkers like myself can get some help from others who have been there. Its actually crazy to think the best way to learn is to just go fire things up and take a chance. And that can be quite dangerous. I am all for learning how to do things by gaining experience, but it is good practice to ask for a starting point - one that will at least lead to some success and not put the machine, or operator in a dangerous situation.

    I remember when I started, several fellows here were MORE than willing to take the time to help me. I appreciated that a whole lot. And try and reciprocate when I can. Same goes with learning about vacuum hold downs. Or modifying the machine. Or cutting a new material.

    I find this forum one of the most laid back, friendly places to go on the internet. It still seems to serve a purpose to a whole lot of people, but unfortunately like everything else in life - not everyone will see it the same way.

    I will say it again - the CNC router is used for SO much more than just artistic 3D carving. And some of the most important things are just keeping the machine running well. Getting help when needed, and sharing some of the stuff we do.

    Its pretty unfair to fault the forum as a whole, just because it might not suit your exact likes/needs.
    I am in full support of what Andrew is saying here. I have also noticed that there are times when Joe's posts can come across brash; certainly not encouraging if you read through replies to his other posts (even on this thread). As Shopbots become more popular, our community will change. This community seems to be incorporating, previously a majority of craftsmen with a new group of production Shopbots. If nothing else, note that these two groups exist. I'm sure the manufacturer doesn't mind. Their intent has ALWAYS been versatility.

    I would really love to show off the work we have done with ShopBot, however I am restricted by Non-disclosure agreements with my customers. I am not alone. Also, I have yet to cut any wood on my SB, I have cut 100's of 1000's of various aluminum parts. They aren't a craft, they are production. TBH, not much to show... I am a technical guy, I am here to help on that front. When it comes to the difference between Oak and Walnut, I haven't the foggiest.

    That, and as Andrew said, this forums remains one of the best places to hang out and learn. The photos that are posted of other SBotters accomplishments, never fail to impress; I mean never. Our community remains the most friendly I have run into, something which should be lauded, not bashed. However, there is more to machining than success, although I wish it always was .

    The ShopBot's versatility, will attract a versatile community. Some will have work to show, and some will/can not. We are here as a support group. There is far more to Shopbotting and its Users than photos.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Garland Tx
    Posts
    2,334

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    Normand… Sculpteur.ca
    I love your web site, and I can’t read a word of it! Is there an “English” tab I’m missing?
    Please start a new thread and tell us if and how you’re integrating the ShopBot into your art!
    SG

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,708

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    Hey Steve:
    Open in Google (chrome) and hit translate. (or add google toolbar to IE-very helpful in many ways).
    Many Quebecois have no need of English websites.

    On the subject of "artistic" and/or "creative" work: Most truly artistic work is hard to sell to the average client. Like it or not, it is the truth. In the most common market it is our job as creators to figure out how to render our clients dreams into a practical reality without charging as if it were a Renoir. That being said, I still see much creative work on this site and work that may not be so highly creative but is obviously sweated over to get a fine technically crafted output (otherwise known as good artisan work), as well as the basic and not so basic operational questions. It works for me.

    And anyone who thinks a well made cabinet is "just a box" is welcome to say that to my face and start running.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Harbour Grace Newfoundland
    Posts
    771

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    I think this turning into are you for Joe or against

    I saw a documentary on the eagle and Joe Walsh was saying that Don Felder push him to be a better guitarist each night they would push each other .They both ended up being amazing musicians

    The same thing in cabinet making and sign work you need to get out of your comfort if all work look the same stale Your pay will reflect that's the reality .I'm blessed that Joe has taken the time to show me new thing .I like to think from time to time I can show him a cord or two .I know Joe is not warm and fuzz the way he answers but he'll tell you the truth
    Also I worked in aircraft interiors had a none disclosure agreement but still made thing on my time .I just finished a yacht made sure I was allowed to take pictures I wrote in my quote .

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    273

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8Ball View Post
    I'm new here and fairly new to cnc. I didn't buy a cnc to start a big business, I got it for me, because it has interested me for many years.

    After getting a cnc, you find out pretty quickly the difficulties of designing and getting the machine to do what you intend it to do.
    Being mostly a hobbyist, for now anyway, I would rather spend my money on materials to make projects, rather than ruining bits trying to figure out feeds and speeds just because I can't wait for a response to a question. The seasoned people have most of the answers that can help the new people and guide them, but some don't feel that they should waste their time. I appreciate those that are willing to take time from their schedule to help answer the mundane questions that get asked over and over.

    I also like to see what people are capable of doing with a cnc, although, I'm not really astounded, it's a cnc. The impressive part is the design work that it takes to do certain things and the time involved in the design. To think that everyone should be a professional with a successful business creating the next best thing, is a bit discouraging. New people, including myself, won't post pics because we don't qualify as creative. We new people may not make something that impresses the older, more seasoned people, but we are proud of our achievements. EVERYONE started at the beginning.

    As far as making signs, they all pretty much look the same. The font, colors, background, logo, image, etc. might change, but the concept is the same. Take the material of choice and cut the afore mentioned items and mount it. Living in a large city, signs are everywhere and they are all the same. Some have fonts that are very difficult to read and I don't even try to figure them out. A sign is a sign, just like a box is a box and there is only so much that can be done to it and it still looks like a box.


    It's funny......8Ball has a very, VERY valid point and he's being knocked around by Joe for it.....what's new?

    What makes this funny is.....that's his perception of what he see's when he see's a catalog of signs. Sure, we see signs as sign makers as something different, the precise carving, gold leaf, the physical makeup of the individual components cheap or premium all the way to the paint...even how it was installed, but I bet he looks at it more so from the consumer side and as a hobbyist. He's just telling us all what HE see's....what a consumer see's and what we see are two different world's and I for one appreciate his perspective it doesn't offend me one bit. It does tell me that maybe sometimes depending on the client we might be putting too much into it. We all have some clients that want art and something different and some just want a "sign" from us.

    What should we do, grab 8Ball by the shoulders and shake him while we tell him THIS is REAL ART!!!!

    Back to the topic now.

    My feeling is, a lot don't post because Joe is a kind of a forum killer.

    Not that I care two bits about Joe's opinion, especially when it comes to electric signs where he's out of his element and honestly he boasts and offers bad advice when he does chime in on my threads that I started and I have to chuckle at the diarrhea that spews from his mouth . Yeah....he's good at design, crafting non-illuminated and hand carving stuff I'll give him that, pat him on the back and say "atta boy". But Joe does have a very bad attitude that mixes with his craftsmanship flip-side (B side of Joe) and that is he projects himself as one of our "betters", he even projects/extends himself beyond his means with incorrect advice.

    Even at the 3D forum I see him doing what he does here.



    In closing, when I see a topic started by Joe, I don't even click on it. But since I saw 3 pages attached to this....curiosity got the better of me and I knew others shared the same opinion.


    Anyway......
    The Sign Syndicate.com
    Electric Sign Community

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    montreal quebec
    Posts
    110

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    Thank Steve G . No English tab ,like Bleeth said here in Québec it is not needed ,many people dont speak English . And not that many people speak CNC . Most think it is for big company .
    I mostly use my sb to do 3d . This relief started with a model I made in sign foam ,then I scan it with David 3d scanner . Then I reproduce it on my sb. over 5ftX8. Most of the hand work after the machining was done with regular exacto knife.


    A carving or a cabinet or a sign is like a face . They are all alike, 2 eyes a nose a mouth . But some are a lot more attractive than other. Since I am a carpenter by trade I dont have to please Customer and I can do what i like ,but the money is not there .
    There may be a new avenue for my work ,now I can sell the 3D model on turbosquid or other.
    I realy enjoy all the different work that is posted on the forum .

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    , rochester ny
    Posts
    311

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    I've never found Joe's comments to be unconstructive. Critical yes, but not unconstructive. Personally, I like being challenged over my ideas. It's not uncommon practice in a serious art and design curriculum. A critique of your work by your peers is common and I enjoy having the honesty laid on me. 'You have to be strong enough to kill your babies' was one of the best bits of advice that I've received from a titan in the commercial arts.
    Joe's opinions are honest, even tho it might be uncomfortable to hear, and I always welcome his advice and critique.

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