Bringing old signs back to life

[joe]

David, Looks you are on the right track with DiBond.

This is one of the most valuable materials substrates in my shop. There are two considerations to keep in mind. First is the expansion. It should be in consideration for inlay letters. One should give it a little room. The other issue is trying to paint the black or gray edges. I've not found a paint that will stick.

Here are a few examples showing how I use it.

[joe]

You mentioned Flexisign:

Let me give a thumbs up on that package. I've been hesitant on recommending it due to the cost. Most SBers, not in the sign business, couldn't justify it. I think it's some where in the 6K range. One of the outstanding features is it's scan, trace and digitize module. For example last week I had a ranch ordering a sign and they sent me a photo of exactly what they wanted. With that pix I digitized the lettering and logo and sent it to my plotter. There are few programs on the market that will cut directly as this one does. I've been recommending Corel for years since it's so cheap and has excellent import export filters. Not to mention is comes with a huge font bank.

Another feature of Flexi is it's ripping software. That's the matrix for large format printers. It's one of the best on the market for making big banners and printing on aluminum panels like Dibone. I don't use that part of the package but it's part of the software. Large printing is sent out.

If it only had a 3d carving package but the market is too narrow for them to mess with.

[GeneMpls]

I agree on FlexiSign... have used it for 20+ years and it has made me a lot of money. I think it is now more like $4200 for the full boat package, but the designer package is much cheaper and you can get it on a monthly subscription. I know, I know- I am a hobbyist in your type of signage, but I am an actual accomplished sign person. There are many different disciplines that have a lot of overlap. And there is money to be made in the overlaps. Yours is not the only discipline. Gene

You know that if you would like to come back to 3Dsignforum it has been discussed and you are welcome.

[joe]

Gene,

I'm on the side of you old tried and proven sign fellows. You've been in the trade for long enough and have proven your skills and deserve lots of respect.

Let me agree with you about the concern about my discipline. There are few of artists dedicated to only dimensional. For example in my section of the US I don't know of another sign shop like mine. Most of my sign friends do all kinds of work. There's nothing wrong with that. My heart goes out to them and all my posts and efforts are in support of their shops. Knowing how hard it is I try to limit my help to small sign shops. I'm not interested in the Feed & Speed crowd.

I've had lots of discussions about what it takes to opening up a sign shop. I tell everyone the primary requirement is to have a community large enough. No matter how accomplished a person is without businesses needing signs it worn't work. You could be the best CNC guy ever and it would still fail.

The SB forum has birthed dozens of sign business that are still going strong. It's always a thrill to hear from them.

Thanks for posting.

[GeneMpls]

I am afraid that you are not going to be able to find a lot of people that do exactly what you are so good at doing- the world has changed on us old pharts. And all we can do is embrace it for as long as we can and try to stay productive and try to help like minded people along the way. Suffering for your art is less necessary now days, and maybe it is good.
I have taken on a Millennial (30 years old) as a full partner to help my daughter run the business and I have learned from him, and I am helping him with his impatience and need for almost instant gratification. It is working very well and we all have a lot fun. I am constantly doing experiments with all of our equipment (just bought a laser) and he is getting into it. Ha... who sez us old guys cannot lead. Gene

You know that if you would like to come back to 3Dsignforum it has been discussed and you are welcome.

[David Iannone]

Joe,
Great examples of the use of DiBond. And also the role on textures as well. I had not considered the expansion and contraction to I will certainly keep that in mind in future pocket signs. In the future I plan to try to incorporate some roll on textures are you have explained in prior posts. My problem right now is manpower. I work alone and manage to make ends meet but I have been burdened down over the years falling back on the "fastsigns" mentality I started at age 15. I am not an artist by any means, but I can set type and make boring sign layouts for customers that approve and buy them every day, and to be honest with you I am wanting to be more creative. Artist and creative are two different things to me. I consider myself creative, and a problem solver. If you were to design one of your dimentional signs for example, I could take your vision/rendering and bring it to life in my shop. I have of course an old SB, 2 - 54" largeformat printers, vinyl cutter, laminator.....and the list goes on and on from the last 26 years of being a part of the sign industry. I of course started the the franchise shop when vinyl lettering was being cut on the old gerber 4b plotters. Flexisign, yes it is THE BEST for sign guys in my opinion. I used Gerber software and plotters and gerber edge for many years, but flexisign does it all including the rip like you said. I sure with I could toolpath for CNC from it. Of course I have Aspire but for me is overkill right now, but I hope to one day use more of the advanced features. Those of us like Gene and yourself have seen so many changes in our industry over all the years, but it seems like things are moving faster now a days. I purchased a new 54" printer a few months ago and instead of getting a second eco solvent I went with one of the new HP Latex printers. I was very hesitant at first and other firends I have in the industry said to stay away from Latex, but I have to tell ya Joe, the printer is just great. Faster print times, since water is the carrier liquid versus solvent the heaters cure it and it comes out cured and ready to laminate. Scratch resistance is excellant and there is no issue with the inks being dull like some say on the internet. They are glossy enough for me.

Dave

[joe]

There's no suffering for the arts going on here.

The field is wide open for creative dimensional sign artists. That's because it takes time and dedication that most people aren't going to do. To get ahead in this business you gotta hone your skills and techniques. It's just like a professional musician or athlete you can't be at your best on a some time basis. Everyone should find their comfort level. I choose to rub shoulders with the best artists in the field. In the same way other professionals gravitate and share their knowledge with other experts. I know this isn't for everyone.

[David Iannone]

Gene,
Partnership, you bring up a good topic at least in my case. When I left the franchise after working there 8 years, my Dad helped me out and cosigned a lone for a plotter and software, some startup materials, and away I went. We were partners, but I handled everything since he already had a sheet metal business, when I need a hand he would help me and vice versa. I used some space in his shop, and in the first few years we put an addition on his building for the sign shop. My sister came on board and was my designer so in the beginning it was just us two. Before I knew it I had another guy helping production and in our biggest year there was 8 of us including my sister and I. I am from DE and that is where the business was.

During some of this time I met my wife of almost 16 years now in october. She is a nurse and was doing 3 month travel assignments in different areas. She is from GA. We lived in DE for 5 years of marriage and ended up moving back to GA to be close to her side of the family. My dad and I split up the equipment, sold the company vehicles, he kept the customer base and has been handling what comes in the door in DE for signs, but sheet metal is his bread and butter. He has enough manpower now a days to handle it all.

So, as of a few weeks ago I come to find out while I was away on a fishing trip with my brother in law on an away lake for two days my wife had another man over to our home for a few hours then they went out somewhere.....and returned at 1:45am. My daughter told me this, she is 14 and she was home. I have video surveillance of the exterior of my home so I have the guy arriving, the two of them leaving and returning. She said she didn't cheat but I just don't care. I have lost all respect and trust for her and actually just filed for divorce as of friday (my birthday) We have been miserable for years, and I had a injury where I fell off a ladder about 14' and broke my leg bad, bad. Bones came out of the skin and went into the mud. Bone infection for years they almost had to amputate. roughly 5 years to get to where I am now which is good. I have even started climbing step ladders again. But I was distant during those years, and tryed to keep focus on doing signs one day again. But that don't give her the right to "cry on another mans shoulder" so to speak.

I am having a very hard time with it, but the one thing that has kept my chin up is my daughter and the little bit of sign business I have, and family and friends. I have more and better friends down here in GA than I ever had in DE, and I really like it here. I live 2 minutes from the lake.

SO....Partnership, There is a large sign company here in my town that sends me all his CNC and digital printing. He does illuminated signs and everything. We have talked about teaming up over the years but we never nail down any numbers. After my divorce I am thinking for real of revisiting the partnership with him. My dad says don't do it, but nobody knows how sad it is to work in a shop all day alone with the talent I have when I could be helping in bigger projects. I would potentially be his partner, he has design, production staff etc. Potentially I bring in all my equipment, and I take over running production in every phase. I will run the CNC plotters, printers, etc. Teach others to run laminator, make signs the way I want them done and he gets out and sells. (he is one hell of a salesman)

I could see myself being a part of a large creative team and that sounds like so much fun. The question is how do I make sure I am rewarded for my efforts to where I dont feel regret about not being my own boss anymore?

How did you partner up? Did he bring money or equipment in? Is he on some type of commission and or salary? What share in your company? Any inspiration you can give me on this topic I appreciate.

Sorry for such a long and depressing post but I just had to get it off my chest. I have some friends here on this forum who I have spoke with some on the phone, in email, and met in person. This is a great group of folks here, and a good Forum.

Dave

[David Iannone]

We got the first sign back up yesterday just before dark. I took a pic of it this morning but the sun wasnt on it gleaming off the aluminum letters. I will get better pics this afternoon as we take the the second sign this afternoon. The one that is busted up in the pic is the next one.....that one is gonna be even more fun since it is broke. The first one was in real good shape compared to some of the other ones.

Dave

[David Iannone]

Joe,
Question for you. This subdivision was started in the mid 80's and the monuments and signs were done at the same time. This whole time I was thinking when they did these that they cut the rubber stencil off the plotter. But I realized I was about 11 years old when these signs were fabricated. There was no plotters. How was this kind of work done before plotters? There are minor differences from one to the next, hopefully wont be a problem, maybe tweak a vector here and there.

Would you have hand cut rubber stencil from a paper template after it was hand drawn and pounce wheel run over it then chalk is up, then hand cut?

Dave