What would you do?

[joe]

The phone call seemed promising, An old law firm wanted to update their existing ground sign so I made the appointment. As I drove up, seeing their sign, all sorts of questions, came to mind. My first thought was "This is going to be a slam dunk". Knowing they had visited my website I was sure they be expecting something a little more professional.

The conversation went like this. "Our sign is falling down and we need a little help getting it refurbished" They were also aware the letters were coming apart, falling off, and knew they needed replating.

The sign sets on a beautiful plot of land. The offices are in a gorgeous drop-dead turn of the century, well maintained home. They are an old conservative Jewish law firm and I some difficulty figuring out the perimeters of my proposal.

As I left there were plenty of questions on my mind. I had the feeling they were looking for a maintenance job. It's become clear there are lots of people who have no appreciation for art. It's not their fault they are visually "Tone Deaf" but as a commercial sign person one has to be aware of it. Few clients can envision the completed project and that's what keeps us busy but there those who have little appreciation for a beautiful sign as opposed to one that will serve their business. For example I see lots of signs going up today that aren't even readable due to, a poor choice of letter style and contrast.

Here's the question. Is it worth the time to consider a proposal? You know they're going to want some kind of art work without any obligation.

[RossMosh]

Fixing up that sign is a job for someone desperate for work or a shop that likes to crank out work. As far as I can tell, that's not you.

I'd call them up and say something along the lines of you were very impressed by their facilities but their sign doesn't match the image you believe they want to put forward. Tell them you'd be very interested in making a new sign for them. Offer the "standard" three tier pricing with examples from your portfolio so they can match a price to an image.

My personal opinion is they had a sign made 20 years ago. They have a nice business and make good money and have seen no reason to replace it. Now that it's falling apart, they're first inclination was to repair it and your job is to advise them the best you can. Based on your post, I wouldn't start doing layouts and design work without a deposit. There is no telling where this job will go and without some sort of committment from them, why waste more time?

One other thing, I use google maps to scout locations before I get a deposit. It saves a lot of time and gives you an idea where you stand before you get there.

[bleeth]

Based on what you said in your post I think your assumptions could be way off.
It's also looks like this was originally done by an amateur sign guy or likely the contractors carpenter.
The question is what do they mean by "refurbished".
As is but cleaned up and refastened or a whole new design in the fields?
All jobs aren't great art. They could be perfectly satisfied with a pair of new posts properly installed and another 2x4 framed piece of MDO with letters on it.
Of course we know you would lay it out with proper sizing and kerning, but it could be just a simple Gemini Letter job. I know there are times you suggest another company that is not nearly as artistic as you and this could easily be one of those as well.
With that info it should be easy to decide.
Looks like the store bought original posts are shot at the base. I'm sure you saw if this is so when you looked at it. I would have told them right off they really need a new sign, ballpark them from a basic post and field sign to a drop dead one and listened to them respond with a budget.
Lawyers and Doctors, regardless of their religious beliefs are a pain in the ass. My personal percentage of closing deals with them direct is much lower than other professions. Only rarely do they really know up front the wide range that cabinets can cost. But I've done tons of work at realistic prices for them when I'm working through a general contractor that was selected through standard commercial bid practices.

Let them know that a really nice sign might make their clients miss the storage tanks across the street that look like s__t.
Or just show them this and tell them that's the quality they really want!

[joe]

Ross

Yep, you're correct.

I'd have pulled away from the start but the Victorian House was like fairy land quality. Also I really like the folks. They were every so cordial and pleasant.

I love this business and if I was a hobby guy this would be right my alley. Even if the client wouldn't know what he got, it would still be fun.

[joe]

Dave,

I'm sure they know it's going to be a whole new sign and their suggestion to "Upgrade it a little, Nothing too fancy" was a way of saying we don't want to spend much money. In this case my website failed me. Most of the time, when a customer calls letting me know they've seen the website, that lets me know they will be spending some money. I'd assumed from the start this was the case.

Like you suggest anyone with a gemini catalog could make them happy.

[bleeth]

"Upgrade it a little, Nothing too fancy" was a way of saying we don't want to spend much money.
That's what it sounds like to me too. Hope you had a nice drive anyway!


Time to get home and channel hop between the Heat game and the Derby.

[joe]

Dave,

Did you notice the "S" in lawyers is upside down?

[bleeth]

Nope. I knew something was wrong with the way the whole word looked but marked it up to bad kerning.
But of course, you are right.

[barrowj]

Guys, I'm not a sign guy and not a great artistic person but please, tell me why you say the "S" is upside down? I'm sure it has to do with "Fine detail" or something that I am totally missing, it looks like an S to me.

Joe

[bleeth]

If you look closely the space inside the curve at the top is larger than the bottom.
That is wrong. The shadows make it hard to tell but Joe's highly trained eye probably picked up on it right away.
Type a large S in Times New Roman and you can see the difference clearly.