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Thread: Price Check - Double Sided Hanging PVC Sign (For the Trade)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    120

    Default Price Check - Double Sided Hanging PVC Sign (For the Trade)

    Fairly confident I left a decent chunk of money on the table on this job or simply am running too high of a cost to produce this type of sign. I'm looking for what you'd charge and how you would tackle this project.

    Details/Specs:
    Size: 28"x18" Oval shaped carved sign. Red PMS485 background with white letters
    Mounting: Hanging (eye hooks)
    Turnaround: 1 week
    Customer: For the trade (another "sign shop")

    Ben's Cookies.jpg
    What I did:
    Two pieces of 3/4" PVC (Panels fused together with PVC glue). Painted with 3 coats custom mixed PPG DTM paint. Edges sanded, painted, & textured to hide any seams. Letters filled with Krylon Fusion gloss.

    Price: $400.

    Mistakes:
    1. Customer came in needing it in a rush. I had 3/4" in stock and knew to get it done fast, I couldn't do a single panel. The dry times would kill me.
    2. Didn't factor enough time for cleaning up the PVC. Cleaning out "fuzzies" in the guy took longer than expected.
    3. Carve time estimate was way off. Took twice as long to carve (again, not a huge deal, but still an extra 30 minutes I didn't account for)
    4. While it's not a ton of money, buying gallons of paint when I need a quart is wasteful. The paint won't go bad, but it's just wasteful.
    5. Free "extras". I only had gloss black so I just spent $5 on a new can of satin black for the hardware. I also textured the edges to hide the mistakes. It's hardly a lot of money, and I have plenty of both left over but it was free add-ons.
    6. Trying to be competitive to get wholesale work from a local shop. For a retail customer, my pricing would have been double, easily.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Bluffton SC
    Posts
    65

    Default

    My retail is $500, wholesale $400. Rush charge 30% extra if need it in less than a week. Cannot get more than that in my neck of the woods.
    Cutting ovals 10 min
    Sanding edge 10 min
    Gluing 10 min.
    Painting 30min
    masking 10 min
    carving 20min
    painting 15 min.
    misc 15 min

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Tulsa,OK
    Posts
    78

    Default

    on the bright side... Sign looks great

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Marietta GA
    Posts
    486

    Default

    Looks like you cleared about 115.00 sq foot on this one without having to mess with install.
    Its been a while since I priced any signwork, but that seems pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossMosh View Post
    Fairly confident I left a decent chunk of money on the table on this job or simply am running too high of a cost to produce this type of sign. I'm looking for what you'd charge and how you would tackle this project.

    Details/Specs:
    Size: 28"x18" Oval shaped carved sign. Red PMS485 background with white letters
    Mounting: Hanging (eye hooks)
    Turnaround: 1 week
    Customer: For the trade (another "sign shop")


    What I did:
    Two pieces of 3/4" PVC (Panels fused together with PVC glue). Painted with 3 coats custom mixed PPG DTM paint. Edges sanded, painted, & textured to hide any seams. Letters filled with Krylon Fusion gloss.

    Price: $400.

    Mistakes:
    1. Customer came in needing it in a rush. I had 3/4" in stock and knew to get it done fast, I couldn't do a single panel. The dry times would kill me.
    2. Didn't factor enough time for cleaning up the PVC. Cleaning out "fuzzies" in the guy took longer than expected.
    3. Carve time estimate was way off. Took twice as long to carve (again, not a huge deal, but still an extra 30 minutes I didn't account for)
    4. While it's not a ton of money, buying gallons of paint when I need a quart is wasteful. The paint won't go bad, but it's just wasteful.
    5. Free "extras". I only had gloss black so I just spent $5 on a new can of satin black for the hardware. I also textured the edges to hide the mistakes. It's hardly a lot of money, and I have plenty of both left over but it was free add-ons.
    6. Trying to be competitive to get wholesale work from a local shop. For a retail customer, my pricing would have been double, easily.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norman, Ok
    Posts
    3,251

    Default

    Nice work and the price is correct.

    When I first started working with PVC, instead of HDU or Cedar, it took a little time to figure out the best way to clean it up. I've ended with a flap wheel. A person can really lean down heavy with with one of these. O, by the way, the best adhesive I've found is PVC Gorilla glue. It sets up slow giving a fellow plenty of time to set the clamps. This glue does not expand. Don't get their purple or blue version. It's too weak.

    Most of my signs are 4" to 8" in depth so there's plenty of fabrication.

    Joe
    www.normansignco.co

    Joe

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Marietta GA
    Posts
    486

    Default

    Little tip I learned from a Sinatra technician a while back... straight MEK will actually weld pvc together.

    Quote Originally Posted by joe View Post
    Nice work and the price is correct.

    When I first started working with PVC, instead of HDU or Cedar, it took a little time to figure out the best way to clean it up. I've ended with a flap wheel. A person can really lean down heavy with with one of these. O, by the way, the best adhesive I've found is PVC Gorilla glue. It sets up slow giving a fellow plenty of time to set the clamps. This glue does not expand. Don't get their purple or blue version. It's too weak.

    Most of my signs are 4" to 8" in depth so there's plenty of fabrication.

    Joe
    www.normansignco.co

    Joe

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Marietta GA
    Posts
    486

    Default

    "Sinatra"... heh... I love auto correct...
    "Sintra"...

    Quote Originally Posted by robtown View Post
    Little tip I learned from a Sinatra technician a while back... straight MEK will actually weld pvc together.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Thanks for the kind words and input from everyone. Joe, I used a lot of your recommended construction techniques. I've found they've worked well for me. At this point I'm stacking and gluing PVC rather than pocket it out. Works pretty well and is easier in a lot of ways, especially with the painting.

    I'm still a bit up and down about the pricing. It's 7 sq feet @ $400 so that's $57.15 per foot. It's not bad money but I can't help but think it's light. Last week I did a printed sign for someone. I don't typically offer printed signs, but I'm starting to offer it now to see how it goes. Using 6mm ACM and outsourced printed/laminated vinyl and I definitely made more per hour. I think once again it boils down to it being harder to turn a profit on a smaller carved sign. It only takes a few extra minutes to paint a 4x8 panel vs a 2x3 sign. It takes the same amount of time to clean the gun between coats and sometimes it takes almost the same amount of time to carve the sign.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Brooklet, Ga
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Great looking sign. Do you mind sharing your painting techniques? Did you mask and Vcarve after painting it or paint it a different way?
    2006 PRTalpha 96x48
    3hp SEV spindle
    Vcarve Pro8
    Always eager to consume large amounts of info, tips, and techniques!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarwes View Post
    Great looking sign. Do you mind sharing your painting techniques? Did you mask and Vcarve after painting it or paint it a different way?
    The first thing to mention is, this process depends heavily on what kind of paint you use. Some paints dry faster. Some paints stick better. Some paints go on smoother. I've found this process works with PPG DTM, Nova Color paints, and most enamels. I only use latex paints except for occasionally when I use a rattle can to fill in some letters.

    My typical process for PVC: Cut the blank. Prepare surface and edges (sand with 220 grit and wipe off with DNA). Thin paint & spray a good first coat with HVLP gun with 2.5mm tip. Wait a minimum of 24 hours. 48 hours is better. Most sign substrates do not absorb paint at all so it's important to let the paint dry. Then go ahead and spray 1-2 more coats. One in the morning. One in the evening. Again, let dry 24-48 hours. Apply paint mask. I've used Gerber and now use Avery. I've seen no difference in quality. Let is sit for several hours. I normally try to apply in the morning so I can carve after lunch. Carve whatever you want. Clean/sand. Sometimes I prime at this point but normally I just apply the paint. I normally do two coats. One in the evening. One the next morning. Then I let it dry 24 hours. Then remove the masking.

    As you can see, it's a relatively long process despite not a lot of the time being active. You can cut a few days out by drying the minimum times and only doing 2 coats. To me, it's cheap insurance to take an extra day or two. I've had signs fail because I rushed. Nothing worse than pealing off the masking and running into problems and basically having to start all over again. I also recommend learning "what works" and sticking to it. Paint choice is particularly important. Choose a "fancy" new paint and it might never cure up or won't let the masking stick at all. Also what works for me might not work for you. Many people lay down a coat of the base color in their letters before applying their fill color. I've had nothing but problems doing it this way. If there is a little bleed (which I've found to be very minor) I'll do a little touch up with a q-tip. But different paints, different materials, different process, it might be incredibly important to lay down that base coat.

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