Newbie looking for advice on SB selection

[Pennywood]

Thank you for the responses, I'll try to address the questions and suggestions to the degree that I understand them.
Tim, I had not considered subcontracting the design work, mostly because I haven't met anyone who had the expertise. That hurdle has probably been cleared with this forum
I've havent looked at the vectric forum, still trying to absorb everything here. I'll check it out tonight
Software is still a complete mystery to me. I'm not even sure what that machine comes with (I guess you just told me Vcp). I've heard "aspire" a lot, and rhino... you've mentioned vcarvepro and vectric, but have no idea which would be best, or if you end up learning them all.
If the cnc creates checkering that matches standard 20 or 30 lpi tools, maintaining the detail is pretty straightforward. There's tons of sanding involved, and once the checkering is complete I just mask it, and touch up the rest of the stock.
As far as 3D carvings, I'm guessing I wouldn't make anything bigger than 3x4, and even that seems huge and would take 100 hours? To carve.
The only two sided carving I've ever done was on an outdoor bench, or a huge 30' sign (that was just lettering) so unless that kind of work starts walking in the door, I probably won't go that direction.
Fixtures and jigs would be at the top of my current list, which is unambitious. Drawer sides are a possibility, but I already have several fixtures for the various types. (Is there an area to sell misfit, outdated jigs that the shopbot replaced?)
I've never really thought the desktop would be big enough, although it obviously produces great results. I have lots of space, so I've always anticipated getting a floor machine.
I did follow your link to Gene's machine. It looks like he has a 12" z. I haven't looked up the desktop max to see what he's asking, but it sounds plausible. Any idea what year it was made?

[tri4sale]

Software is still a complete mystery to me. I'm not even sure what that machine comes with (I guess you just told me Vcp). I've heard "aspire" a lot, and rhino... you've mentioned vcarvepro and vectric, but have no idea which would be best, or if you end up learning them all.

When I was a beginner, I remember being confused by all the software names begin thrown around. Here's my brief overview, check out www.vectric.com for full details on differences:

Vectric - Makes VCarve Desktop, VCarve Pro and Aspire

VCarve software - 2D design and layout. Two versions, Desktop and Pro
VCarve Desktop - limited to 24x24 size work areas.
VCarve Pro - allow working larger areas

VCarve is the software that comes with ShopBots, used for the design of your work. Not sure if they provide the Desktop or Pro version of Vcarve when you buy a ShopBot desktop.

Aspire - Everything VCarve Pro does, plus adds the ability for 3D design

VCarve will import and cut 3D designs, you just can't create / edit them (correct me if I am wrong).

One great thing about Vectric is their upgrade path, basically if you buy a lower version (Desktop or Pro), and want to upgrade (to say Aspire), you just pay the difference, so you can start out with lower version and upgrade later as needed, and not out any money.

Rhino is another 2D / 3D design software. I have no experience with this, and most ShopBotters will be familiar with the Vectric family of software since thats what comes with ShopBots.

[Pennywood]

Thank you Daniel, for typing all that out. It really does help to realize that most people are using the software that comes with the machine. And that most of the references are to a vcarve family of software. Is aspire harder to learn?
My daughter is getting married this week, so I don't have much time to surf.
I'm positive that I want to learn to cut 3d designs, so I'm wondering if that's what I should start with. I remember reading that there was a practice software that I could download and start becoming familiar with its operation, but when I downloaded it, i couldn't get it to run. Is that because I'm using am iPad? Thanks again for demystifying the software thing

[steve_g]

Pennywood…

The Vectric family of software is not Apple friendly…

IMHO most Shopbot users use the Vectric family of software not only because it comes with new machines, but because it’s the best software available!

VCP (V Carve Pro) is a subset of Aspire and any time spent learning it is not wasted if you eventually purchase Aspire.

3D modeling in any software is difficult and time consuming. I’d suggest you become proficient in all other aspects of CNC operation before you tackle it! 99% of the time the 3D model you want has already been created by someone else and is available for a few dollars, or an artist is willing to customize what you need for a reasonable fee…

Not many customers are willing to pay for the time it takes to develop stunning 3D work and the additional machine time required to produce it! 90% of the time a v-carve satisfies the artistic need! The attached image shows a v-carve of leaves on the inside of a man’s valet, modeling this in 3D would have added very little and would have added many additional hours of machine time!
SG

[scottp55]

I think Dan has the unofficial 3D record time ;
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...0923-The-Bears
But it's a HUGE cut. Check out some of Dan's other cuts on other threads as well!
Desktops used to come with VCarve Pro, but there was no "Desktop" version back then....I think it's still the full version as I was talking to someone last year and he had "Gadgets" available(which means the full version).
VCarve Pro can easily do 3D cuts, but Modding/creating we can't do beyond the tools shown in the 2 pics.
But at least we can do these...WAY easier and more tools than before version 8!!
You'd have to ask Gene about his machines specifics, and I'm thinking I like Russ and Tim's suggestion for a recessed area, but I'm out of my depth talking about anything except Desktops, and only know what I read.
Sounds like you'll be busy!
No idea why the downloaded trial version didn't work...can you try it on a laptop or full PC?

[steve_g]

Pennywood…

The Vectric family of software is not Apple friendly…
IMHO most Shopbot users use the Vectric family of software not only because it comes with new machines, but because it’s the best software available!

VCP (V Carve Pro) is a subset of Aspire and any time spent learning it is not wasted if you eventually purchase Aspire.

3D modeling in any software is difficult and time consuming. I’d suggest you become proficient in all other aspects of CNC operation before you tackle it! 99% of the time the 3D model you want has already been created by someone else and is available for a few dollars, or an artist is willing to customize what you need for a reasonable fee…

Not many customers are willing to pay for the time it takes to develop stunning 3D work and the additional machine time required to produce it! 90% of the time a v-carve satisfies the artistic need! The attached image shows a v-carve of leaves on the inside of a man’s valet, modeling this in 3D would have added very little and would have added many additional hours of machine time!
SG

[tri4sale]

Thank you Daniel, for typing all that out. It really does help to realize that most people are using the software that comes with the machine. And that most of the references are to a vcarve family of software. Is aspire harder to learn?
My daughter is getting married this week, so I don't have much time to surf.
I'm positive that I want to learn to cut 3d designs, so I'm wondering if that's what I should start with. I remember reading that there was a practice software that I could download and start becoming familiar with its operation, but when I downloaded it, i couldn't get it to run. Is that because I'm using am iPad? Thanks again for demystifying the software thing

Yes, the software won't run on an iPad. They are Windows only software.

If you just want to cut 3D designs other's make, go with VCarve Pro.
If you want to CREATE 3d designs, go with Aspire.

On the 2D side, VCarve and Aspire are pretty much identical, I don't know of any differences, so from that standpoint, Aspire is no harder to learn.
On the 3D side, well, I've not done any creating, so I can't vouch for how hard it is to design / create 3D from scratch. I've got Aspire, but I've not delved into the 3D creation world yet.

Vectric and ShopBot have great tutorials online covering most everything you'll need to know, thats a great place to start and learn.

[Pennywood]

I don't know how to quote text from other messages
I'm confused by "if you want to just cut 3-D design others make, go with vcarve pro, if you want to create 3-D designs, go with aspire"
I thought aspire was an upgraded version of vcarve pro. Do you mean that I cannot cut 3D designs others make with aspire?

The Bears 3D carving was the one I previously encountered, although I didn't realize how big it was. Amazing detail, I dream of the day when I can make such things.

[scottp55]

Aspire is VCP's big brother, and we can cut any model they make, provided they export it in a format we can import(.stl format is most common it seems).
Perhaps watch this tutorial by TJ on "Importing";
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nwhHNcylrc
TJ gives an online class(see training section) roughly once a month that is free to all and covers different topics with a nice Q&A session afterwards for any questions. It look like they finally revamped the training video page
http://www.shopbottools.com/mSupport/tutorials.htm

You can import any 3D file types on this list;
http://support.vectric.com/vcp-quest...category_id=91
If you can import it, the the program(VCP) that comes standard with a new machine will cut it. IF buying a used machine, you have to transfer the license and then upgrade(through Shopbot and their edition is cheaper as it only exports cut files to a Shopbot) to at least version 8.5** for the modeling tools in my pics.
You can always upgrade to Aspire if you find you'll need it, for only the difference in cost....so try VCP for a while and then decide I'd say.
The basic tools are the same, so you won't have to learn anything except the new modeling tools that Aspire has.
Hoping this helps....it's a lot to swallow in one bite, but makes more sense as you get into it.
scott

[tri4sale]

I don't know how to quote text from other messages

Lower right corner of message click on "Reply with Quote"

I'm confused by "if you want to just cut 3-D design others make, go with vcarve pro, if you want to create 3-D designs, go with aspire"
I thought aspire was an upgraded version of vcarve pro. Do you mean that I cannot cut 3D designs others make with aspire?

No, Aspire lets you design your own 3D designs, and cut others 3D designs by importing.

Basically, the software is Good / Better / Best - VCarve Desktop / VCarve Pro / Aspire

As you go up in software level, you do everything the lower version can do plus more. So Pro does what Desktop does plus some more, and Aspire does what Pro does and more.