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Thread: Spindle turning off during cut

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Rapid City, SD
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    598

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    Just moved my shop, setting up DC and found one of these in my assortment:

    http://www.rocklerpro.com/4-stablegate-blast-gate

    Seems like an ideal, ready - made stand off. Have searched for a standoff in the past with no luck, so thought this was a pleasant surprise to find. Like me, you'll need to drill/tap some holes in the metal Z carriage bracket to make it work. The fact that it is a gate can be disregarded (left open), but I realized with my new set-up, this will actually be useful.

    makes it pretty hard to keep the flex hose from touching some part of the machine — especially the cords that plug into the spindle.
    True, but it can be done. Is your collection hose feeding to a relatively central location above the table? Some have had success adding a spring pulling hose away from gantry/Z car wiring for areas of travel that cause the line to contact there.

    Hope this helps - I too have experienced static issues and USB/comm issues to a similar point of frustration. Listen to the advice being given here, and you'll soon have the issues resolved as I did. These guys are the best, especially with their intensive knowledge/experience with the Shopbot.

    Jeff

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Glendale, WI
    Posts
    46

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    Thanks everyone for the support. Today was a good day. Based on Gary's video, I rigged (hacked really) a plywood standoff-ish thingy for my flex hose so that it would be less likely to rest on the gantry, and I shortened the hose by about 8 inches. Today's jobs cut without a problem! Who knows if it's thanks to the standoff hack or not, but I am pleased. I will look for a more permanent solution.

    IMG_6949.jpg

    My flex hose connects to ductwork above the CNC a bit off center. I've monkeyed with all sorts of bungees etc but haven't found the right approach yet.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    iBILD Solutions - Southern NJ
    Posts
    7,662

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    Glad you got it - it can be incredibly frustrating if you have jobs to get out.

    Consider building a gallows arm of sorts that connects to the wall, is hinged and holds the hose.

    -B
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - IBILD.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marquette, MI
    Posts
    3,290

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    Glad yer runnin man!

    "
    Based on Gary's video, I rigged (hacked really) a plywood standoff-ish thingy for my flex hose"


    Do you think there is anything in that video that is there because it hasn't been proven to work? That video may seem simple, but it is the combined knowledge of myself, Brady and a few others that have been in hundreds of shops and solved real problems hands on.

    You can call someone or look up the social media gurus that think they know stuff, but in the long run it is actually better to know stuff than to look it up.

    (spoken by the poster child for the anti-social media)
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Training & Technology
    GCnC411(at)gmail(dot)com
    Control & ATC Retrofits

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1


    "We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them"
    Albert Einstein


  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Glendale, WI
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    46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Campbell View Post

    Do you think there is anything in that video that is there because it hasn't been proven to work? That video may seem simple, but it is the combined knowledge of myself, Brady and a few others that have been in hundreds of shops and solved real problems hands on.

    You can call someone or look up the social media gurus that think they know stuff, but in the long run it is actually better to know stuff than to look it up.

    (spoken by the poster child for the anti-social media)
    [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]
    So after things worked, they didn't....and I suspect it is directly related to temperatures and humidity dropping. So today I took two final steps: with an electrician in tow, we ran a ground rod through the concrete floor 6 feet into the ground and attached a massive bare copper wire to the DC frame (and dumped a good gallon of water down the hole). And I reconfigured the flex hose so that it truly doesn't touch the machine using some rigid foam and zip ties as a makeshift standoff. It ain't pretty, but after all that, even though today was quite cold and dry, I got through a job.

    Gary - I think your video hits everything except for the ground rod in the floor. I can't believe Shopbot doesn't do a better job educating its customers about this issue -- especially those of us in the upper Midwest where winters can be cold, dry and full of static.

    Thanks everyone for the help. Here's to hoping I finally licked this problem.

    Brian

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Marquette, MI
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    Brian...
    The ground into the floor is not in the video because I don't recommend it. If it was that action and not the physical isolation of the hose itself it would surprise me. You changed 2 things at one time? How can you tell which one fixed the problem?

    If a ground rod, even tho used in many industrial applications with success to prevent machines from being charged with lightning and injuring an operator, solved your problem alone, then I would say something else is amiss in your electrical system. The reality is, that adding a ground separate from the electrical system ground creates a ground loop, often causing problems with computer controlled machines.

    I have never added a driven ground rod to a machine, but I have disconnected the wires from machine frames to them. In most cases an immediate improvement was noted.

    You don't give your location, but I might venture a guess that you are in a rural location that hasn't seen a power grid or code upgrade in a couple decades. They seem to be the most susceptible. From my actual experience these locations, especially shops on a subpanel from a residence that have been wired to older codes have shown to be problematic. The ground voltage potential between a CNC machine and the computer that controls it will problematic about as long as USB is the communication method.
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Training & Technology
    GCnC411(at)gmail(dot)com
    Control & ATC Retrofits

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1


    "We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them"
    Albert Einstein


  7. #27
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    Jun 2017
    Location
    Glendale, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Campbell View Post
    Brian...
    The ground into the floor is not in the video because I don't recommend it. If it was that action and not the physical isolation of the hose itself it would surprise me. You changed 2 things at one time? How can you tell which one fixed the problem?

    If a ground rod, even tho used in many industrial applications with success to prevent machines from being charged with lightning and injuring an operator, solved your problem alone, then I would say something else is amiss in your electrical system. The reality is, that adding a ground separate from the electrical system ground creates a ground loop, often causing problems with computer controlled machines.

    I have never added a driven ground rod to a machine, but I have disconnected the wires from machine frames to them. In most cases an immediate improvement was noted.

    You don't give your location, but I might venture a guess that you are in a rural location that hasn't seen a power grid or code upgrade in a couple decades. They seem to be the most susceptible. From my actual experience these locations, especially shops on a subpanel from a residence that have been wired to older codes have shown to be problematic. The ground voltage potential between a CNC machine and the computer that controls it will problematic about as long as USB is the communication method.
    Well bummer. The electrician seemed pretty sure that a driven ground rod was a good idea. Note that it's the dust collector frame that connects to the driven ground rod, not the ShopBot.

    Tomorrow I will disconnect the DC from the ground rod and see what happens.

    My location isn't rural. It's suburban Milwaukee in a light industrial area. The shop, however, is dated and so is my electrical panel.

    The fact that all of this goes back to USB is maddening. I am looking forward to upgrading to FabMo wireless once they get that sorted out for my control box. When I was at ShopBot training a few weeks ago, Ted said that FabMo was coming to the Desktop in a month or so and to other machines not too long thereafter.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marquette, MI
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    Brian...
    I misspoke. I assumed (actually misread) that you were connecting the driven rod to the machine. IF it helps, leave it, but I would guess that if it does help it is masking some grounding issues in the building. Is your building primarily 3 phase power? Is the electrical ground, for the most part, distributed by the conduit or by actual ground wires? In many cases shortcuts are taken with the grounding and especially the neutrals by not running them back to the main panel. The worst I ever saw was in Mexico. Like the worst horror movie I ever saw. 75 volts AC between the SB frame and the electrical panel ground. Torched every computer that was connected to the machine.

    Yes, SB has a lot of hopes riding on the Fabmo system. But remember, it was also set to be in production in 2015, 2016 and 2017. Hopefully 2018 will be the charm.
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Training & Technology
    GCnC411(at)gmail(dot)com
    Control & ATC Retrofits

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1


    "We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them"
    Albert Einstein


  9. #29
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    Jun 2017
    Location
    Glendale, WI
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    46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Campbell View Post
    Brian...
    IF it helps, leave it, but I would guess that if it does help it is masking some grounding issues in the building. Is your building primarily 3 phase power? Is the electrical ground, for the most part, distributed by the conduit or by actual ground wires?
    Building is primarily single phase. I'm not sure about the ground...electricity is definitely a deficit of mine.

    Everything ran smoothly today. I decided not to make any changes or do any further experimenting. If the foam standoff for the flex hose was the winning move, great! If it was the driven ground rod for the DC system, great! If it was both, even better! All I know is that the ShopBot is operating properly now.

    Thanks everyone for your help. It's hard to imagine making my way through the early months of ShopBot ownership without the support.

    Brian

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Marquette, MI
    Posts
    3,290

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    Glad your up and running
    Gary Campbell
    CNC Training & Technology
    GCnC411(at)gmail(dot)com
    Control & ATC Retrofits

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1


    "We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them"
    Albert Einstein


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