Post Processor Modification

[Brady Watson]

ANY other non-USB based controller on the market will make ANY ShopBot run faster. I say this from direct experiential knowledge trying out various controllers and configurations myself. Saying that the SB controller is the slowest, oldest tech and most unreliable of the lot is not a dig - it is a proven fact. Science trumps belief.

Brian,
When can we expect someone focused on non-HandiBot machine development to chime in regarding what is in store for full sized tools, and when we can expect a reliable controller to replace ailing legacy controls? Where's Sturmer? Where's Tom? Where's Ted? What could be more important than offering clarity around the issues posted in this thread? I know you people are talking about this thread in the office...enough games. What's up?

JustAGuyInARobe.jpg

[ron_moorehead]

This has been a good thread to following and I thought I would add my two cents in.

SB Control code vs Gcode I don’t really care which one, I care about how to use the software CAD/CAM to design my project and create the cut files to get it made. I have a ShopBot PRS Alpha, a 3D printer, and two laser cutter/engravers. I use Aspire, Corel Draw, and Fusion 360 to design and generate the code needed to run the machines. I don’t care if it is gcode or some other code, I just want it to communicate and work.

The only machine I have out of the four that needs to have the computer connected to it at all times is the ShopBot. My question is why?

Seems ShopBot has not keep up with current or even past current technologies. Now I hear it will be even farther out beyond 2019 before we get any new interface. Wow.
By then we should have VR interface to the equipment by the CNC companies that have keep up with current tec.

My wife has a Statler/Gammill quilt machine she has had for 5 years and the company has been making them longer than ShopBot, if you don’t know what a Statler is it is a CNC machine for quilters. It moves the sewing machine back and forth X and Y and controls the speed of the stitch.

They sell the machines to women that have no idea what a CNC machine or gcode is and most of the ladies are older and not that technology inclined.

They have recently updated the software and now requires you to have a Gammill approved computer and the cost for a new one is around $1500.00 is has all the preloaded software and configured to run the machine. You order it from Gammill but it is shipped by HP to you. Why can’t ShopBot do this?

My wife Statler has some great features I would love to see on ShopBot, her software allows her to design in the program and she is also able to see the location of the sewing machine on her screen in real time during the stitching. A online web portal to store your designs, and purchase new ones.

Sometimes we get so focused on just our world of CNC routers that we don’t see what the rest of the world is doing. You can download the new software for free and run it in a demo mode. http://gammill.com/creativestudio7/

I would just love to get a replacement for the USB connection and I only have problems if I shut down at night wrong. If I shut off the dust collector before shutting down the control software I get a communication lost error. Other wise my setup works great.

By the way I think we should start a were in the world is Ted, just like Waldo.

[Gary Campbell]

Brian...
I think you are missing the point. We like all the folks at ShopBot. The problem is that while the group in Durham was once the providers of low cost and usually cutting edge products (remember the low cost interrupter?) in the small CNC world, they no longer are. No longer low cost and surely no longer anywhere near cutting edge. This has happened over the last 15 years. The first half of which SB was on an uphill climb and the second going in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, during that time, ShopBot has actually promoted or marketed their products and technology far beyond what they have been able to deliver.

The promises of "what's coming in the next version" has been repeated over and over and over again for the last decade. And there still is no solution to any of the control issues. And those comments are falling on deaf ears. And those deaf ears are not reaching for their wallets either. And those deaf ears steer their friends in other directions. If you do not succeed, you fail.

There is far to much acceptance of mediocrity at the company. This is a capitalistic society. Just because you, or your peers, or employer, for that matter feels you are doing your best means absolutely freaking nothing. It is how your products compare with others offered in the rest of the world that matters. Your results matter. Individually and collectively. An individual and the company as a whole should be able to deliver the goods, in a timely manner, or step aside to allow their replacements to do it.

The thousands of existing machine owners are not interested in hearing what you kids think you should do, how you are doing it, or what kind of cutesy little apps you play with in your spare time. Most also could not give a rats a$$ about ANYTHING Handybot. And just so you know, I took a survey on the forum about 6 months ago. One of the questions was: If you were to purchase a new CNC this year, would you consider ShopBot? Owners of Handybots replied a resounding 100% NO. Compare this to 42% of general forum users that responded no and 80% of advanced users that said the same. The primary difference between these groups was "have you used other CNC control systems?"

Lets use John's riding lawn mower purchase experience from above as an analogy to the machines these survey respondents have purchased.
Only 58% of those that have never used another riding lawn mower would purchase that same brand. 42% negative is an extremely low "brand loyalty" number compared to similar surveys for other OEM's. What's really sad is that 80% of purchasers that have "ridden" another brand would NOT purchase that same brand. The highest I've seen before this is 33% negative, and that was mostly related to the OEM not offering machines larger than tabletops.

I understand that it is generally accepted that there is a small number of users experiencing problems, mostly comm, and they are a vocal minority. Maybe so, but they didn't respond in that manner. Below is a cut of one category's response. There were 15 categories that returned similar results. From ~100 forum users:

[JimmyD]

>> If I could sell my current machine and recover even 50% of what I spent I would do that and move on, but I can't.

It's silly to let a few thousand dollars stand between you and happiness. Dump the machine if you hate it that much. You're never going to get 50% of what you paid for a five year old highly customized machine no matter what the condition. Put it up for sale and get rid of it and move on. You'll feel better. Isn't reducing your anxiety, anger and frustration level worth a few grand?

I had a similar frustration with a supposed top of the line consumer level $5,000 lawn tractor a number of years ago. One day, I drove it to the curb, placed a "Free" sign on it and went down to the John Deere dealer and bought a $10,000 professional grade ZTR. It was the best feeling. Months of frustration and anger were simply gone. I don't know who took my old mower away but it was gone and good riddance. Sometimes it's best just to cut your losses and move on. We eventually moved to a smaller lot in the city and I sold that ZTR for 85% of what I paid for it. That was one great piece of equipment.

After reading this forum for the last five years, I feel I must be one of the lucky ones. I've never had any problems with my PRS Alpha and it continues to this day to do exactly what it is told to do, when it is told to do it, without nary a problem, ever.

Mr. Coryat,

I'm curious.

If a car that you paid $25,000 for was unreliable, frequently stopped running while you were driving, perhaps while making an important trip and stalled, would you put it on the curb and give it away? I doubt it.

If you're lesser cost big screen tv, computer, or any of your other expensive items that use a computer to operate stuttered and couldn't complete its' given task would you give it away?

I applaud everyone that is happy with their shopbot and its communication abilities. I have empathy for everyone who has issues with their machine.

I imagine that if it were your car that was having these problems and there was a forum for that product lots of people would be complaining and sharing their experiences in an attempt to find a solution or at least someone who would listen because they share the same pain. Perhaps there would be those on that forum defending the automaker because they were happy with their car, although I doubt that would happen when it's the car instead of the CNC machine.

Which group would you be in?

[coryatjohn]

>> If a car that you paid $25,000 for was unreliable, frequently stopped running while you were driving, perhaps while making an important trip and stalled, would you put it on the curb and give it away? I doubt it.

I had that car. It was a Porsche 911. The last straw for me was driving through Stamford CT on my way from Vermont to Florida and the clutch self-destructed. I drove the rest of the way without a clutch. Tricky. I traded it in and disposed of the unreliable trozo de mierda. To me, money is not as important as happiness. Everyone has their pain point, mine is rather low.

[brian.owen]

Brady and Gary,

I think you've missed what I've been trying to say in the last few posts--the "kids" are the people at ShopBot who are developing the new tools and the new software. We've been here between 6 and 3 years. There's Kevin, who designed the Desktop Max and the revised DT 2418--there's Sturmer who is leading the R&D team and writing the code and designing the electronics for FabMo--there's Brendan who designs the GUI for FabMo--there's me who designs the tools and accessories for Handibot and works daily with our tools in a production environment--Ryan Patterson has been around a while longer but is still working on improvements to the gantry tools and desktops--including the change over to linear rails on the gantry last year...these are the people who are going to solve your problems...or not. Ted is not going to be the one who works out the details of these solutions. He's assembled a team of individuals who hold the core values of ShopBot close at heart--but who differ in opinion about most other things. I'm sure that a few of them would even agree that they don't give a rat's ass about anything having to do with Handibot.

We're either going to get it right--and ShopBot survives for another generation...or we won't--and ShopBot fades into obscurity as you're predicting. The bottom line is: we're what you've got--and calling on Ted or anyone else to respond to this thread doesn't change the makeup of the team that is ultimately responsible for pulling ShopBot out of the past. You might not care about every project we take on--but we're not doing it because it makes us feel good to be doing our best on something--it's because we're responding to a need expressed by our customer base--a group whose makeup is changing faster now than it ever has.

Your opinions are important--and you are both correct; ShopBot is not keeping up with the competition...we made an excellent tool 15 years ago and again 9 years ago--and have been surviving on the merits of that work for far too long. It has been so much safer and easier to stick to what we know best. However I disagree that our excursions into lower-cost CNC tools indicate a loss of interest in serious, entrepreneurial users. Sorry Gary, but I'm going to mention Handibot again--plug your ears...Not only does Handibot put us in contact with a group of users that widely lack the "common" CNC knowledge--forcing us to reconsider how someone can encounter a tool for the first time--and get things to work the first time...it also keeps us in step with the serious crowd by forcing us to work out the best way to run the production of a high-tech product using our own tools to make the parts.

Ron,

I really like your example of the quilting machine. For a tool that costs $20k...a $500 computer that cuts problems in half is an obvious win. This is something that has come up frequently at ShopBot and one of our Tech Support guys has stepped up and taken on the problem and is testing a few different options. I'll point him to this comment and hopefully it'll push him to keep the idea moving along and finish it. With FabMo still a ways off, it should be time to push out some improvements to the SB3 experience--regardless of how much we want a new control system to be the answer.

All,

I'm sure that other people from ShopBot will chime in from time to time--though I suspect they're enjoying watching me be put through the ringer this week. So thanks for humoring the plastic tool guy and giving so many strong opinions.

For Gary--here's one more survey: https://www.cnccookbook.com/cnc-mach...etter+08152018

[Gary Campbell]

Brian...
I understand the current structure as you, TomH and Sturmer have posted that multiple times in this thread. I have seen their work and respect all you have listed with only one exception. Had some good conversations with RyanS and Kevin in SC earlier this year. I like all the ideas. For the most part, and as it relates to the larger format tools, I mostly always have. That's why I am sad, even tho I do not have a dog in this fight.

What you need to understand is that there is a few hundred, maybe a few thousand of us ol farts out here that have been around a decade and longer. We have heard this before from "the original 4", "the next generation", "the future" and now from you. I don't question your motives, I don't question your talent, I do question the companies long standing tradition of lacking in its ability to deliver on any of its promises in a timely fashion. Perhaps you missed above where I stated that I was working with RyanP on the linear rail prototype in 2012. My God man that was 6 years ago.

Son, we don't care what you say. We only care on what you deliver.

We know that you are "the sacrificial lamb du jour". We have seen those before you.

And when its all said and done, it seems that yet again 2018, there is still much more said, than ever gets done.

Good luck and Godspeed, and I mean that most sincerely.

[Brady Watson]

Brian,
I guess it must be nice to have such a cavalier attitude towards the success of the company you work for. Historically, the president of the company or one of his lieutenants, would have addressed the existing base of customers and enrolled us into the company's vision going forward, assuring us with the company line that, "No ShopBot should ever become obsolete." This is why many of us were waiting for someone with response ability to address the proverbial elephant in the room.

Just like any other company that addresses its stockholders, we, the loyal base of ShopBot owners, enthusiasts and word of mouth advertisers are not only kept in the dark, but patronized through agreement, that the company has and is making poor decisions & clearly, does not care about existing or future gantry tool customers. "We're going to focus on making toys & that's that."

Several of us, including Gary & me, know that there are logical, definite and reliable solutions to the issues that have plagued ShopBot for so many years. We have throughout the years, shared and presented solutions, ideas and information to the 'powers that be', in order to give them an edge in the market & because we want them to come out on top, to no avail. It seems that against all statistical probability that ShopBot continues to make the wrong decisions, when presented with a choice, nearly 100% of the time. I think ego and outright defiance of logic have thrown ShopBot off track and out of the market that they pretty much owned in the resent past.

It doesn't take a genius to read between the lines. It's sad. It's just so sad. It's like finding out your good friend of nearly 20 years has just gone off the deep end. There's no coming back from that.

[ron_moorehead]

I have owned and operated a ShopBot for over 9 years now. The day I got my first one up and running was the day my USB communication issues started. In looking at the forum 9 years ago this was a known issue at that time. 9 years later it is still a major issue and now maybe you are working on it and that fix could be out by more than a year.

The question about were Ted is, is he still the owner/president of the company? If I owned ShopBot years ago I would have said “Fix the USB communication problem, I don’t want hear about another problem”.

Sad to say when I down size machines in two years my next CNC machine may not be a ShopBot.

[gerald_martin]

I've been watching this thread - perhaps many others are too - for some time. I, too, am loosing patience with the solution to the USB comm issues that is always just around the next corner. I have had some correspondence with Ted - I recently sent him an email with a link to this thread and asked him to consider responding here. So we'll see.

Gerald Martin