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Thread: "nicks" in female inlay machining

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    Glendale, WI
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    103

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    Machine is 1 year old and has gotten decent use but certainly not all day every day production work.

    Rack and pinion on YZ car:
    EF05CDD8-E6FE-408D-87F3-3EDDB1ACAF1C.jpg

    Rack and pinion on control box side at X motor:
    12AB4716-93DF-4FB0-8445-30F1CD573909.jpg

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
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    Thorp, WI
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    2,611

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    Looks a little worn and mis-aligned on the YZ as well. Kind of dry too! I'd get some new ones and some good lube too.
    Scott



  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    Glendale, WI
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    103

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    Detached and reattached all the stepper motors and things are tight now. I have another 16 trays to make and I’ll be able to compare the difference.

    FYI Fanowood latex wood filler is amazing stuff to hide the imperfections.

    5708E8BE-C340-4DEF-8E64-B6C4D309E29B.jpg

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    iBILD Solutions - Southern NJ
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    7,860

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    ALL machines need maintenance. Follow the assembly guide available under the Support area on the main SB page. Observe how things go together and make them right.

    You're machining entirely too fast for that machine. You are losing steps or the machine is deflecting. The part you show appears to be less than 4 or 5" wide. There isn't enough room for the tool to accel to 3 IPS and Decel to 0 IPS in that distance...that means you're not running at a properly set speed to start with. Furthermore, small tools NEED high RPM to at the very least get into the right chipload range. You should be running that 1/8" around 18,000 RPM and your MS somewhere in the 1.5 to 2 IPS range.

    When quality sucks, slow down AND check your machine...but you should already be doing that regularly in addition to CLEANING the machine regularly...RIGHT? It needs more attention & maintenance than your other woodworking power equipment.

    Question for EVERYONE: Have you ever seen a solid carbide tool deflect? I never have. Carbide is crystalline in composition and will SHATTER and snap off before it ever deflects. High Speed Steel (HSS) WILL deflect. Carbide = Nope. QUESTION #2: If the bit isn't deflecting, then what is? Follow the line of logic and find out what needs to be adjusted or if you are machining too fast.

    Bonus - If you are using speeds straight out of the default tool database in the Vectric products, stop immediately. There was no logic behind the numbers that programmers put in there as sample data...you NEED to pick the right speeds for the work YOU are doing.
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - Vectric Custom Video Training IBILD.com

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Glendale, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady Watson View Post
    ALL machines need maintenance. Follow the assembly guide available under the Support area on the main SB page. Observe how things go together and make them right.

    You're machining entirely too fast for that machine. You are losing steps or the machine is deflecting. The part you show appears to be less than 4 or 5" wide. There isn't enough room for the tool to accel to 3 IPS and Decel to 0 IPS in that distance...that means you're not running at a properly set speed to start with. Furthermore, small tools NEED high RPM to at the very least get into the right chipload range. You should be running that 1/8" around 18,000 RPM and your MS somewhere in the 1.5 to 2 IPS range.

    When quality sucks, slow down AND check your machine...but you should already be doing that regularly in addition to CLEANING the machine regularly...RIGHT? It needs more attention & maintenance than your other woodworking power equipment.

    Question for EVERYONE: Have you ever seen a solid carbide tool deflect? I never have. Carbide is crystalline in composition and will SHATTER and snap off before it ever deflects. High Speed Steel (HSS) WILL deflect. Carbide = Nope. QUESTION #2: If the bit isn't deflecting, then what is? Follow the line of logic and find out what needs to be adjusted or if you are machining too fast.

    Bonus - If you are using speeds straight out of the default tool database in the Vectric products, stop immediately. There was no logic behind the numbers that programmers put in there as sample data...you NEED to pick the right speeds for the work YOU are doing.
    Thank you Brady. You are, as ever, and invaluable resource. I will adjust feeds and speeds per your advice. Makes sense now that I think about it. I am only a year into this whole CNC thing, so I am still on the steep part of the learning curve for sure. Getting there.

    I had already taken the opportunity to clean and lube up the machine. I was certainly behind on that.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Brookline, New Hampshire
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    434

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    This is a bit off subject but might surprise a lot of people. Carbide bits are not solid carbide. If they were, they'd be extremely expensive and brittle to the point of being useless.

    “Cemented tungsten carbide,” the material that makes up the tools and inserts, is actually grains of tungsten carbide, along with particles of other materials, cemented together using the metal cobalt as a binder.

    Tungsten carbide is actually a good electrical insulator (if my failing memory serves me). Why then can you use an electrical ZZero plate? Metallic cobalt is a very good electrical conductor.

    Even though the bit is not solid carbide, it is extremely rigid and flexes very, very little before breaking.

    Paul Z

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    MA
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    409

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    Brian.. I totally missed that video... You've got to correct that slop. As others have said.. go back through the setup instructions and tighten the machine up. Looks like you've got some V rollers that aren't adjusted. What's not obvious is that the V rollers are excentric and can be tightened with an Allen wrenches and a flat wrench (I use one for a mountain bike)

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    17

    Default It is solid, but you're right; it's not pure tungsten carbide

    It's made by sintering grains of tungsten carbide with cobalt metal, which produces a solid material that's ground to form tools. The endmills referred to earlier in this thread are sold as "solid carbide", not to be deceptive, but to differentiate them from router bits that often are made primarily from steel, with carbide cutting edges brazed on.

  9. #19
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    Jan 2004
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    iBILD Solutions - Southern NJ
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    A bit of thread drift regarding carbide...

    Yes, 'solid' carbide within the realm of tooling is most certainly 'glued' together. The term 'micro-grain carbide' is of interest, because an endmill is essentially constructed of very tiny balls/spheres of carbide (and other 'stuff'). Just like changing the resolution in your favorite Vectric software to alter the size of the 3D pixels, or voxels - carbide grain size is along the same lines. Think of micrograin as higher resolution...well, sorta.

    But why does it matter what size the carbide grain is - to me, a CNC router guy?

    It matters because carbide HATES heat. When carbide is overheated, it readily ejects from the surface of the tool and never goes back...that means that if you were to observe this happening, there would be a series of 'pock marks' out of the cutting edge of your tool that migrated away from the tool because it was overheated. Imagine if you will that the tool you are using was a cheap import - the grain size would be quite large compared to a premium micrograin carbide tool. When overheated, more carbide leaves the tool volumetrically than a micrograin one...So, more of your cutting edge goes bye-bye as a result.

    This is why it is recommended that you cut CHIPS and not make dust with your cutting, because those large chips act as a heat sink and carry the heat away from the tool - saving your cutting edge and your carbide. There are coatings available to insulate the carbide from heat, but you should know - NO coating has been proven to be advantageous for CNC routing of wood because it just doesn't get hot enough for the coatings to be effective...So gold colored tools that promise to last for eternity when routing wood should be relinquished to the snake oil pile...The exception here, as it relates to routing (if you call your CNC router a mill, I'll slap you...) - is diamond coating. This gives zero heat resistance, BUT offers increased hardness @ the cutting edge, which can be a real advantage with composites...and there are a number of different types of diamonds too...and none are cheap, but they ARE worth it if you need them.

    When it comes to micrograin carbide, it is possible to achieve a sharper edged tool, compared to a coarser grain carbide tool. However, if you do some research on the subject of cutting tools and the materials they are made from, you may discover that other materials, such as high speed steel (HSS) and other materials are much SHARPER than carbide when comparing identical grinds. This is because the molecules are smaller, allowing it to hold a sharper edge. However, HSS is much softer on the hardness scale & 'hardness' means the resistance to scratching...so an HSS tool might be sharper, but can't hold its edge as well as a carbide one.

    Those cutting aluminum might want to try HSS. It is 'tougher' than carbide because it will deflect a little - BUT, it also absorbs harmonics when cutting AL and can give better results. It is certainly worth a try...and YES, they are sharper, so don't slice your finger sliding down the helix...like I did...a few times...
    High Definition 3D Laser Scanning Services - Advanced ShopBot CNC Training and Consultation - Vectric Custom Video Training IBILD.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,271

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    Yes I have seen a .125 bow just a little and not break

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