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Thread: Is CNC cheating?

  1. #21
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    Oct 2000
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    Here's a new YouTube video from Scott Grove on CNC and craftsmanship, using his Handibot to cut bowtie keys as his example

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx9HrdQSZ98

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    CNC is just a tool to use, or not, as one sees fit. I do alot of things "by hand" but of course, tools are used unless I am to gnaw the wood with my nails and teeth. So I am not sure [and don't really care] what cutoff the purists have, I suppose maybe no power ?

    I know this oddball character purist type by my summer camper, sometimes when I am bored at night I go wandering around and he usually has a little crowd at his firepit. Somehow CNC came up and this guy thinks he is gods gift to woodworkers, his whole trailer is festooned with **** he has made, and I do mean ****. I ca s#$t out a better work of art than he'll ever make, but I never said anything to him about it and I don't begrudge a man to do whatever he wants to get enjoyment out of making things. Anyhow when he started trashing CNC "Oh yeah, any stupid kid can make things with a machine", I felt obliged to defend myself, as his comments were obviously aimed to me. Long and short, I said Ok, I have some things I have made at my trailer, I'll bring some by and let these people be the judge.
    So I went back and got a few things and the firepit folks were blown away, especially the ladies. I even ended up selling one of the spot for $50, chick fell in love with it and wouldn't let it go, her dad was there and bought it for her. So the guy was humiliated and didn't say much more after that, hopefully learned a lesson but I doubt it. Yes of course, there are guys who make stunning works of art "by hand" and do all sorts of things, I am a journeyman union carpenter and know a fair share of master carpenters whos skill level with wood I will never aspire to, but there is room enough for everyone to do as they please is the way I see it. Those who don't at least partially adapt to technology eventually end up missing out in one way or the other.
    Doug

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Lenox High School, Lenox MA
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    842

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xray View Post
    CNC is just a tool to use, or not, as one sees fit. I do alot of things "by hand" but of course, tools are used unless I am to gnaw the wood with my nails and teeth. So I am not sure [and don't really care] what cutoff the purists have, I suppose maybe no power ?

    I know this oddball character purist type by my summer camper, sometimes when I am bored at night I go wandering around and he usually has a little crowd at his firepit. Somehow CNC came up and this guy thinks he is gods gift to woodworkers, his whole trailer is festooned with **** he has made, and I do mean ****. I ca s#$t out a better work of art than he'll ever make, but I never said anything to him about it and I don't begrudge a man to do whatever he wants to get enjoyment out of making things. Anyhow when he started trashing CNC "Oh yeah, any stupid kid can make things with a machine", I felt obliged to defend myself, as his comments were obviously aimed to me. Long and short, I said Ok, I have some things I have made at my trailer, I'll bring some by and let these people be the judge.
    So I went back and got a few things and the firepit folks were blown away, especially the ladies. I even ended up selling one of the spot for $50, chick fell in love with it and wouldn't let it go, her dad was there and bought it for her. So the guy was humiliated and didn't say much more after that, hopefully learned a lesson but I doubt it. Yes of course, there are guys who make stunning works of art "by hand" and do all sorts of things, I am a journeyman union carpenter and know a fair share of master carpenters whos skill level with wood I will never aspire to, but there is room enough for everyone to do as they please is the way I see it. Those who don't at least partially adapt to technology eventually end up missing out in one way or the other.
    Just want to say that I enjoyed you post. I like your attitude. I have been doing woodworking, carpentry for 60 years. I taught high school woodworking for 35 years. I've made most of the furniture in my home and a lot for other people. I am very proud of what I have made, but I have made many projects on my CNC (Shopbot) that I wouldn't even attempt by hand or with traditional power tools. CNC has vastly expanded my repertoire.

    Phil

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Piedmont, SD
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    Watched the new video. Suddenly, He's gone from accusing those of us with CNC's of being dishonest:"Is your craftsman lying to you" to declaring himself a very clever guy who knows how to make money now that he's discovered the CNC. Couldn't continue watching once I heard that self-congratulatory introduction. Never mind the fact that these inlays have been done to distraction for years now, with pre-fab templates, guide collars and routers, (all produced with machines, including gasp CNCS) available from any purveyor of woodworking supplies, and we all know it.

    Hardly "hand work".
    Hardly original.
    I've lost a lot of respect for him in lite of this chameleon-like arrogance.
    (Yeah, I know - I'm likely just jealous, and I know, he's just working at keeping a career going, like the rest of us)

    Honestly, for my clients, I've received nothing but a vote of confidence once the fact is disclosed that I use a CNC. It's usually read by them as an indicator that I am serious about the business, and committed to getting their job done efficiently, safely, and with the highest level of accuracy.
    Moreover, it's seems most clients realize it is not simply a push-button cookie cutter, or they'd be standing at the Lowes "custom" cabinet counter. Thankfully, it appears good sense may, in reality, be quite common indeed.

    The machine can truly be an extension of the craftsman's creativity, not simply a key to looking smart and making more money.

    Good grief, Mr. Grove. Think before you pontificate.

    In closing, I'll extend my forgiveness, and welcome him into the world of digital fabrication. It's pretty dang awesome in here!!!

    jeff

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Pro Signs, Coal CIty IL
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    I think you can apply that argument to many many trades. I've been a sign shop owner for decades. I started out hand lettering. Then computers came along and I started punching paper pounce patterns with a plotter. Didn't take long and I passed on paint altogether and started cutting vinyl letters and graphics.

    About 100 years ago, lol, well almost another lifetime anyway, I airbrushed murals on conversion vans (1970's). Today I print wrap graphics on a large format printer. Then there are even purists within the wrapping community, that say if you use the new ''air egress vinyl'' that makes it much easier to apply bubble free wraps, you're cheating. Because a real wrapper should be able to apply a wrap without that crutch.

    Anywhere technology has advanced a trade, there will always be the old school guys that don't want to change. My philosophy is, if I can do the job faster and better with modern tools, I'll do it. After all, the finished job will be admired long after the technique, and the artist for that matter, is forgotten.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Hobby-Tronics, Chiloquin Oregon
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    I have had my Bot for 12 years now and I have produced some amazing things because of the machine and of course the great Vectric software. For pure inspiration though I have a fun site that I check into once or twice a month. It's a site were 'things' to do are posted by Matthias. He uses a band saw a lot. He uses a table saw a lot. He has plans for building a band saw (from wood). He designs marble machines, rubber band Lego guns, some really fun stuff. I have made four or five of his jigs. He does a lot by hand. He does a lot by machine. He shares all of his ideas with us. Is CNC cheating, not one bit when used like he does. Russ

    The site is: Woodworking For Engineers
    https://woodgears.ca/
    AKA: Da Train Guy

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