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Thread: Indexer PP issue

  1. #21
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    Thorp, WI
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    Meant to reference VU, values units, B Unit Value.

    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" - Benjamin Franklin
    "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you" - Benjamin Franklin




  2. #22
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by srwtlc View Post
    Meant to reference VU, values units, B Unit Value.
    83.3333 is that value.
    I had to calculate this based on the motor and gearbox that was provided. The instructions indicated a value of 40, but that resulted in only carving about half way around.
    I checked this value using a pointer and a scribed line on a piece of aluminum bar I had, and 360 degree rotation comes as close as my eyes can register.

  3. #23
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    Jun 2019
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    It rather looks like the Shopbot Techs have given up, so I am on my own.
    I get the feeling that they do not sell many indexers for the Desktop Max, so making software work for this combination is not a priority.

    It appears that I can make it work by having a different cut program for each different tool I use, and edit each program by deleting the C9 command.

    It is a bit of a PIA, but I can manage and it looks like it will at least allow me to use the indexer.

    Thank you all for the assistance.

  4. #24
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    Mar 2013
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    Memphis TN
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobmann View Post
    83.3333 is that value.
    I had to calculate this based on the motor and gearbox that was provided. The instructions indicated a value of 40, but that resulted in only carving about half way around.
    I checked this value using a pointer and a scribed line on a piece of aluminum bar I had, and 360 degree rotation comes as close as my eyes can register.
    One way you can refine this number is to turn the indexer 3600 or even 36000 degrees and check the drift.
    ShopBot Details:
    PRS Alpha 96x60x12
    4hp Spindle
    12" indexer
    Aspire
    Rhino

  5. #25
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    I'm guessing that they are all working diligently on FabMo, AKA FabNo, AKA NoFab!!

    Just for fun, lets take a deeper look at this. Replace your MTC.sbp file with this one and see if it behaves the same way when you run an indexer file. If it doesn't behave the same as before, try a multiple tool job and see how it works.
    Attached Files Attached Files

    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" - Benjamin Franklin
    "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you" - Benjamin Franklin




  6. #26
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by srwtlc View Post
    I'm guessing that they are all working diligently on FabMo, AKA FabNo, AKA NoFab!!

    Just for fun, lets take a deeper look at this. Replace your MTC.sbp file with this one and see if it behaves the same way when you run an indexer file. If it doesn't behave the same as before, try a multiple tool job and see how it works.
    Thanks for the assistance.
    I will give this a try and see what transpires.
    I am working on a job right now, it will consume my time for a couple days so I will do this as soon as I can.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2004
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    Cabinetpartspro,Inc., Naples Florida
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    Reading through some of this thread I will try and clear up some of the issues. First is with the Post Processor. The wrong post is being used. The MTC post will not work with a Desktop or Desktop Max. The correct post can be found C:\SbParts\a_PostProcessors_forCAMsoftware\Vectric Posts\ARCHIVED_VectricPosts\PartWorksPosts\PartWor ksPosts_ARCHIVAL .

    The reason the MTC Post can not be used is with a Desktop Max the MTC controls and manages a dual Z the second Z is also controlled on the B axis. The movement you are seeing with the B moving to the same location as the Z is because it is moving the second Z to that location. By using a none TC post this corrects the issue you are seeing.

    The second issue is the unit value. For the newest version of the 6" indexer the unit value should be 83.3333. The math to know this is based on the stepper motors step per degree 1.8. The micro stepping of the driver 10 and the gear ratio 15. So the math is 360/1.8 = 200 This is 200 steps in a full rotation. 200 x 10 = 2000 . This 2000 to add in the micro stepping. 2000 x 15 = 30,000 This is adding in the gear ratio and shows that there is 30,000 steps for a full 360 degree rotation. The final is to divide 30000 by 360 to get the steps per degree = 83.33333

    The concluded solution:
    Use Shopbot_Indexer_X_inch.pp with a MAX
    Use a Unit Value of 83.3333 with a 15:1 6" indexer

  8. #28
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    Dec 2000
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    Thorp, WI
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    Hey Ryan, check your MTC file for an error! The reason it doesn't work is that you have a : after a "GOTO Safe_4Axis" on line 254. This causes the IF THEN check for an indexer to fail and allows the execution to drop through to the wrong SAFE AXIS movements for an indexer.

    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" - Benjamin Franklin
    "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you" - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #29
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    Jun 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Patterson View Post
    Reading through some of this thread I will try and clear up some of the issues. First is with the Post Processor. The wrong post is being used. The MTC post will not work with a Desktop or Desktop Max. The correct post can be found C:\SbParts\a_PostProcessors_forCAMsoftware\Vectric Posts\ARCHIVED_VectricPosts\PartWorksPosts\PartWor ksPosts_ARCHIVAL .

    The reason the MTC Post can not be used is with a Desktop Max the MTC controls and manages a dual Z the second Z is also controlled on the B axis. The movement you are seeing with the B moving to the same location as the Z is because it is moving the second Z to that location. By using a none TC post this corrects the issue you are seeing.

    The second issue is the unit value. For the newest version of the 6" indexer the unit value should be 83.3333. The math to know this is based on the stepper motors step per degree 1.8. The micro stepping of the driver 10 and the gear ratio 15. So the math is 360/1.8 = 200 This is 200 steps in a full rotation. 200 x 10 = 2000 . This 2000 to add in the micro stepping. 2000 x 15 = 30,000 This is adding in the gear ratio and shows that there is 30,000 steps for a full 360 degree rotation. The final is to divide 30000 by 360 to get the steps per degree = 83.33333

    The concluded solution:
    Use Shopbot_Indexer_X_inch.pp with a MAX
    Use a Unit Value of 83.3333 with a 15:1 6" indexer

    Thank you for the assistance, Ryan.
    Part of our initial conversation right after I got the indexer was that I did, in fact, have to change the unit value, since the value given in the indexer instructions is in error. I calculated the value myself and fixed that issue right after hooking the indexer up.

    The only PP available is the one on your web site. There is no mention that this PP will not work with the Desktop Max. Seems like you all would have mentioned that detail, at least note this on the download page on your web site. That would have pretty much eliminated many weeks of back and forth emails.
    Also the PP that you recommend will not allow for multiple tools to be used in any part program; Aspire will not even allow me to save a program with more than one tool. This is pretty important information for someone new to the indexer, and should be included in some documentation somewhere I would think.
    I appreciate that I am probably one of very few people that have purchased the indexer to use with the Desktop, and that is why you all do not support it.
    Unless you all decide to update the PP, I will just use it as it is.

  10. #30
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    Thorp, WI
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    Bobmann,

    Did you give the MTC.sbp that I edited/attached a try with your tool change post? I'd be interested to see what it does. As Ryan stated, the MTC file does manage the dual Z situation, but it is also supposed to manage the B axis differently when it sees that the machine is set up for an indexer. Problem is, there's an error in the MTC.sbp that fails at checking for it, and instead, just passes it through to be managed as linear instead of rotary. Give it a try and report back. Who knows, it might work, but there could be more nonsense further along in the tool changing process.

    "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" - Benjamin Franklin
    "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you" - Benjamin Franklin




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